2 feet per hour

[GrumpyGranddad]

What I find mind boggling is the impact just one of these machines has on the economy in the wider sense, especially as we come out of the Pandemic.
Each machine operates 24/7. On board crew of 17 and a surface crew of 100. To provide 24/7 cover for work, holidays and training etc then that is approximately 6 WTE / post so 702 employees. Then we have the impact these employees have on the wider economy, ranging from childcare, NHS, public/private transport, leisure, hospitality etc etc. let alone the public finances through direct and indirect taxation. The numbers are significant.
I'm sure someone with expertise will be able to work out the full impact.

It’s huge. We’re on the route and the number of hi-viz jackets and hard hats is astonishing. Recently they evicted Swampy and Co from a shanty town they’d built in some woodland by the A413. Once out, fences were erected with a guard stationed every 5 metres to stop the protestors reentering. Dozens of HS2 workers who’s job was to stand still for days on end. Massive job creation.

 

[Vagophile]

I dunno, but water has been a big concern generally around here.

On the BBC news last night an environmental campaigner (I missed his introduction) was absolutely certain that the project would disrupt the natural water table balance and river flows. As chalk streams can disappear naturally on occasion, it will be interesting to see what happens as the project progresses.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

On the BBC news last night an environmental campaigner (I missed his introduction) was absolutely certain that the project would disrupt the natural water table balance and river flows. As chalk streams can disappear naturally on occasion, it will be interesting to see what happens as the project progresses.

Will happen for sure, but water will always find another path (issue is which path!).
It’s the same situation for most newbuild developments, flooding etc will often occur a considerable distance away.

(The A23 was flooded near Gatwick in Dec 2019 after a spate of new builds combined with heavy rain. Older properties had suffered flooding for months after after various construction works. The developers said it was nothing to do with them as they had carried out expert studies etc. The land owners diverted the flow into a field near the A23 and a drainage trench was dug, but during heavy rain the ditch got blocked and the water spilled across across the A23 carriageway which then had to be closed causing gridlock. At the same time there was a landslide onto the railway track near balcombe which also resulted in the tunnel flooding! (apparently the landslide may have been partly caused by tress being cut near the railway line to reduce track leaf fall)).

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Will happen for sure, but water will always find another path (issue is which path!).
It’s the same situation for most newbuild developments, flooding etc will often occur a considerable distance away.

(The A23 was flooded near Gatwick in Dec 2019 after a spate of new builds combined with heavy rain. Older properties had suffered flooding for months after after various construction works. The developers said it was nothing to do with them as they had carried out expert studies etc. The land owners diverted the flow into a field near the A23 and a drainage trench was dug, but during heavy rain the ditch got blocked and the water spilled across across the A23 carriageway which then had to be closed causing gridlock. At the same time there was a landslide onto the railway track near balcombe which also resulted in the tunnel flooding! (apparently the landslide may have been partly caused by tress being cut near the railway line to reduce track leaf fall)).

Good example of the law of unintended consequences.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Good example of the law of unintended consequences.

"Minister, I foresee all sorts of unforseen problems." (One of my fave Sir Humphrey quotes from Yes Minister).

 

[trev0rk]

TBM's travel 10 miles in 3 years, then off to the scrappers.
That would give the VW bean-counters something to think about ;-)

 

[Amarillo]

TBM's travel 10 miles in 3 years, then off to the scrappers.
That would give the VW bean-counters something to think about ;-)

I don’t understand why TBMs cannot be deconstructed and shipped somewhere else.

Any answers?

 

[kurienp]

after Florence and Cecilia ... it is Ursula in the news

Tideway: TBM Ursula removed from Chambers Wharf | Ground Engineering

CVB JV lifted the TBM from the Chambers Wharf shaft last week, utilising a special 1,800t marine floating crane with supply chain partner Mammoet. Initial

www.geplus.co.uk

 

[kurienp]

I was planning to make a fortune in retirement selling bacon sandwiches from my Cali to the HS2 workers in a layby on the Wendover by-pass, but somebody beat me to it.

There is always a market. The Cali commands a premium. Premium California Baps!

 

[WelshGas]

I don’t understand why TBMs cannot be deconstructed and shipped somewhere else.

Any answers?

After 3 + yrs of 24/7 operation the cost of disassembly, refurbishment etc: makes if financially unviable.
Also, I gather each machine is purposely built for the tunnel design and the type of strata to be tunnelled.

 

[Vagophile]

I don’t understand why TBMs cannot be deconstructed and shipped somewhere else.

They sometimes are, depending on first use. See #33, it is expected that Ursula will have a second life.

 

[subthree]

I don’t understand why TBMs cannot be deconstructed and shipped somewhere else.

Any answers?

A requirement of a contract that came across my desk this week, from the client, is that the TBM is to be recovered.

Lifting it out of the 50m deep shaft will be good to watch. But that is several years away on the project I am involved with.

 

[Borris]

Many years ago I received a call one Sunday morning asking me to accompany a senior colleague to inspect an incident that had just occurred in a very high profile tunnel that was being built at that time in my "neck of the woods". The incident involved the business end of a very large TBM that had just finished its contractural duties and was being removed from the tunnel via a deep large diameter shaft. Unfortunately, they had made a bit of a "dogs breakfast" of securing it. The result was that said TBM head had broken loose and fallen to the bottom of the shaft causing all sorts of damage and no doubt, much egg on numerous faces.

 

[WelshGas]

A requirement of a contract that came across my desk this week, from the client, is that the TBM is to be recovered.

Lifting it out of the 50m deep shaft will be good to watch. But that is several years away on the project I am involved with.

Most TBMs are recovered , are they not?, by dismantling them. However, I think the Channel Tunnel TBMs were just left in a side tunnel.

 

[Amarillo]

Most TBMs are recovered , are they not?, by dismantling them. However, I think the Channel Tunnel TBMs were just left in a side tunnel.

For years one could be seen on top of the M20 embankment near the Folkestone terminal with a FOR SALE - ONE CAREFUL OWNER sign stuck on it. I don’t recall seeing it recently, so maybe they found a buyer.

 

[OGII]

For years one could be seen on top of the M20 embankment near the Folkestone terminal with a FOR SALE - ONE CAREFUL OWNER sign stuck on it. I don’t recall seeing it recently, so maybe they found a buyer.

Maybe the restorer of the "kebab" written off Cali painted it 2 tone and flogged it as nearly new to HS2?

 

[Borris]

Most TBMs are recovered , are they not?, by dismantling them. However, I think the Channel Tunnel TBMs were just left in a side tunnel.

That's certainly true for the two main running tunnel TBMs that went from England towards France. However if memory serves, their were eleven TBMs used in constructing the CT and I believe the rest were all recovered.

 

[Amarillo]

That's certainly true for the two main running tunnel TBMs that went from England towards France. However if memory serves, their were eleven TBMs used in constructing the CT and I believe the rest were all recovered.

The one next to the M20 sold on ebay.

£40,000 buys Channel Tunnel drill

www.kentonline.co.uk

At least two are buried near the French-British meeting point under the English Channel.

 

[Velma's Dad]

After 3 + yrs of 24/7 operation the cost of disassembly, refurbishment etc: makes if financially unviable.
Also, I gather each machine is purposely built for the tunnel design and the type of strata to be tunnelled.

Also, after 2.5 years or 9.75 miles they need a cam belt change which costs £22.47 million if using OEM parts. (If there were tunnelling in German chalk the cam belt would last 10 years or 100km).

 

[alan middleton]

I’d have thought that a giant tunnelling machine could manage better than 2 feet per hour!

HS2 boss hopes UK ‘gets behind’ project after launch of huge tunnelling machine | ITV News

It will work non-stop for three years and is one of 10 tunnel boring machines being used between London and the West Midlands for Phase 1. | ITV News London

www.itv.com

That’s probably why he needs the country to get behind it:

The boss of HS2 has said he hopes the UK “gets behind” the controversial project