4-Motion vibration

[Brom]

Hi - I'm new here. Just bought a T5 facelift 140bhp 4-Motion; it's a 10-reg, with 24K miles. We are finding there's a nasty resonance or vibration in any gear (but especially the higher gears) if you accelerate below 2000 revs. As the gearing is very high, with 70mph equating to around 1950 revs, this means you can't use 6th gear below 70mph! The same applies to 5th - you need to change into 5th at around 60mph.

It's currently being checked at a VW main dealer, but they don't think it's the DMF. Has anyone any experience of this in a 4-Motion - or any other version, for that matter?

Thanks

 

[choplee]

i didn't think they did a "california" 10 plate 140 4motion :?: :?: :?:

 

[KernowLad]

i didn't think they did a "california" 10 plate 140 4motion :?: :?: :?:

They didn't - I think it needs to be 12 plate or later (or maybe even 62 plate)?!

 

[choplee]

i didn't think they did a "california" 10 plate 140 4motion :?: :?: :?:

They didn't - I think it needs to be 12 plate or later (or maybe even 62 plate)?!

unless it is a 10 plate 140 4motion T5 panel van and not a california maybe ? :?:

 

[Brom]

It's a T5 LWB high-top campervan conversion - but underneath, it's a VW, same as all yours! Question is - does anyone else's T5 have similar vibrations at 1500-2000 revs? I can't find anything on any forum to suggest it's a known problem, whether on a 4-Motion or any other variation.

 

[briwy]

Still sounds like it could be a DMF problem to me. I had a Skoda Octavia Estate withe same problem and kept getting told "they all do that" until it finally let go and took the gearbox out with it.
I would try taking it to another dealer if possible for a second opinion.

 

[vmaxkiddy]

I had a similar problem on my Skoda Octavia Scout on a 57 plate, same rpm range you mention, and a similar vehicle mileage. The Scout uses a Haldex system similar to the 4Motion. After a lot of head scratching at the dealers the fault was traced to the Haldex system, they disconnected the electric plug from the Haldex, went for a drive and the fault had disappeared. Plug reconnected fault returned. Fortunately mine was under warranty as no repair was available, a new Haldex was required.

Sent from my iVan using smoke and mirrors.

 

[stew]

I have pretty much the same Symptoms on my T5.2 140 with 4Motion (~30K miles, built Oct 2011). It's especially noticeable in 4th and 5th gear in that rev range and transmits vibration thorugh the floor. It's similar to when you've tried to accelerate in too low a gear, but a lot more pronounced.

Also noticed:
- at a constant speed between 30-40 in 3rd/4th gear, there is a new pulsating noise
- a 'rumbling' when coasting in neutral with the clutch out (20-40mph). When it's depressed, the rumbling goes away.

It's going into the dealers this week for a diagnosis. Just in time as the warranty expires on Friday...

 

[Confuserated]

Eh? Do you only get a two year warranty now then?!

 

[stew]

Eh? Do you only get a two year warranty now then?!

I found out last week, that in Switzerland yes...

Mine was imported from Austria, via Germany and first registered in Switzerland, so it may be different, which is something I need to look at.

 

[Confuserated]

Wow! That's not great, especially considering the cost of these vehicles. Thankfully you found your problem sooner rather than later.

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

Eh? Do you only get a two year warranty now then?!

I found out last week, that in Switzerland yes...

Mine was imported from Austria, via Germany and first registered in Switzerland, so it may be different, which is something I need to look at.

You are correct. Most of Europe only has two year warranties on new vehicles from the manufacturer. Porsche in UK only gets 2 years warranty from new.

cheers

 

[Brom]

Thanks very much everyone - especially vmaxkiddy. The garage (who are very helpful - Hadwins of Lindale), have disconnected the Haldex and the T5 does run much better without - though it's rather gutless and labouring for a 140 and not as smooth as it should be; that's another problem! They don't yet know precisely what the precise cause might be but clearly the 4WD has something to do with it. If we find out I'll report back. It may be that the van will have to be rejected, though I'd rather it were repaired. The garage did ask VW Commercial HQ, who, as always, denied knowledge of any such problem.

It does sound as if Stew has another one with the same issue - good luck with it - how long has it been like that?

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Hi Brom, Skoda UK didn't know what was causing it to start with, the answer came from Audi, as several TT's had the same problem. So I'm not really surprised VW commercial don't know.
This link might be helpful.
http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/VW/Misc/VW ... yGuide.pdf
Best of luck.



Sent from my iVan using smoke and mirrors.

 

[Retiredron]

Looking at the self study sheet looks a complicated system, had bad vibration on a freelander after fitting two new tyres, ignored it and within a few weeks the transfer box exploded
Ron.

 

[stew]

It does sound as if Stew has another one with the same issue - good luck with it - how long has it been like that?

Just recently - I noticed it about 3 weeks after fitting new front tyres (another thread on that herehttp://www.vwcaliforniaclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5134).

The dealer reproduced the problem on a test drive and agreed that it's 'not right'. Going in next week for them to have a poke around.

Thanks for the hints all. I'll certainly let them know about disconnecting the Haldex and that Audi could help, but it's worrying that a change of tyres might be responsible for this...

Doing some more googling, it looks like the symptons could also (in addition to Haldex) be caused by worn CV joints, dual mass flywheel (as mentioned earlier) or the propshaft. I'll update when I find out more.

 

[stew]

Update: Bus going in Oct 28th, but in the meantime I disabled 4Motion and the vibration/resonance went away. Re-enabled and it's back.

FYI, you can do this by removing the 'SC4' fuse which is the 4Motion/Haldex controller. Fuse diagram attached in this post...

Be aware that it also disables ESP, so I would only do it for testing purposes over a short distance.

Brom, did you find out anything more?

 

[briwy]

Update: Bus going in Oct 28th, but in the meantime I disabled 4Motion and the vibration/resonance went away. Re-enabled and it's back.

FYI, you can do this by removing the 'SC4' fuse which is the 4Motion/Haldex controller. Fuse diagram attached in this post...

Be aware that it also disables ESP, so I would only do it for testing purposes over a short distance.

Brom, did you find out anything more?

Does taking this fuse out cause the Canbus to throw a wobbler or bring up any fault lights that don't go out when the fuse is replaced?

 

[stew]

Does taking this fuse out cause the Canbus to throw a wobbler or bring up any fault lights that don't go out when the fuse is replaced?

Everything worked fine for me - an orange 'ESP disabled warning light' comes on when the fuse is removed but goes out after it is plugged back in. Note that I only removed and re-inserted the fuse after the engine was turned off and key taken out of the ignition.

In theory there should be no issues with removing a fuse since one could blow at any point.

 

[briwy]

OK, thanks stew, only asked because I had an issue recently where I had disconnected a switch on the dash. I had to have a dealer reset to get rid of a warning light.

 

[Brom]

Update on our 4-Motion LWB camper. It went in to the converter's local VW dealer, and the propshaft was removed and sent to a specialist driveline outfit. It seems that the problem lay with the universal joints. The van has been test-driven without its propshaft and apparently 'performs within parameters' - which doesn't sound brilliant, but they may just be being cautious.
Anyway, the propshaft should be re-fitted in the next couple of days, then the van will be test-driven again. All being well, should have it back next week.
Incidentally, VW were asked to pay a contribution and refused - which seems a bit miserable after 3 and a half years and just 24,000 miles!

 

[stew]

Ouch.

Thanks for the update, mine is currently in the workshop, awaiting news of what the issue is.

 

[stew]

Update: Local VW garage thought it was either the DMF or Gearbox.

As they had a spare DMF lying around, they replaced it, but there was no improvement. They are now pretty sure that it's the Haldex coupling, so they're waiting for a new one to arrive.

Thankfully I got the problem logged while it was under warranty.

 

[stew]

Next update - the Haldex has been replaced (5K francs ~ £3K) and nothing has changed.

As there is no vibration after disconnecting the Haldex controller fuse, then it's something to do with having load on either the propshaft or the 'angular gear' which transmits power to the propshaft and they will try replacing the prop first.

At this rate, I'll have a nearly new drivetrain, gratis

 

[Brom]

Thank God you took it in before the warranty expired!

Ours has been handed back to the converter - all perfectly amicable, we're replacing it with a 2WD version of the same conversion, also a 140 manual, and will use winter tyres (in winter), instead.

The 4-Motion's prop-shaft went to a specialist to be balanced; when it came back to the VW garage the flange/doughnut/whatever it is which connects the propshaft to the Haldex was the wrong spec. Having sorted that, I'm told (we didn't test-drive it), that there was still some residual vibration there, so it will need further investigation, which is in hand.

As you are finding, if you encounter this (hopefully rare) fault, discovering the true cause isn't at all easy. It will be interesting to hear how yours is resolved. We will probably never discover what was wrong with ours, but, thankfully, it's no longer our problem!

Roll on January, when our new van arrives!