4 Motion v 2Wheel front Drive

[motacyclist]

I would not have been in half the places that I have ended up in this year had I not had a 4WD. Perhaps 2WD with winters, all season in the mud, this drive system better than that ... etc. .... but in my mind, in my perception, I feel hugely reassured by having 4WD and that has increased my use of the vehicle, and my enjoyment of that use, enormously.

Plus, we can take a shortcut across the fields, reducing trip distance thus offsetting the increased mpg, reducing emissions, and reducing congestion on the roads. Should get a reduction in RFL for that. Come to think of it, I could consider a Chieftain tank if it had an elevating roof and chairs in the tailgate ...

 

[KernowLad]

My main reservation with the 4motion system (apart from half of it needing replacing a year into ownership) was it's Winter capabilities. It's a 3 tonne vehicle and even with 4motion and better tyres, we had next to zero faith in it as a Winter vehicle. Too big, too heavy.

It definitely came in handy in the odd muddy field, allowed us access to one site that was 4wd only but it adds a lot of weight and eats up a lot more fuel.

We got it more to NOT have FWD than for anything else - and when we did push it hard, the low ground clearance and large overhangs reminded us that without a few additions (bash guards, side bars, etc), it wasn't a vehicle to take off road. And being a 3 tonne van, you won't be understeering, you won't be losing grip, you'll be pootling along just about keeping up with other traffic even in a 180. The diff lock was also dodgy in the extreme - made horrible noises, very hard to disengage.

So it's not great off road and it's not aimed at performance driving. It's sort of in the middle somewhere. Good that it's offered as an option though.

 

[motacyclist]

My main reservation with the 4motion system (apart from half of it needing replacing a year into ownership) was it's Winter capabilities. It's a 3 tonne vehicle and even with 4motion and better tyres, we had next to zero faith in it as a Winter vehicle. Too big, too heavy.

It definitely came in handy in the odd muddy field, allowed us access to one site that was 4wd only but it adds a lot of weight and eats up a lot more fuel.

We got it more to NOT have FWD than for anything else - and when we did push it hard, the low ground clearance and large overhangs reminded us that without a few additions (bash guards, side bars, etc), it wasn't a vehicle to take off road. And being a 3 tonne van, you won't be understeering, you won't be losing grip, you'll be pootling along just about keeping up with other traffic even in a 180. The diff lock was also dodgy in the extreme - made horrible noises, very hard to disengage.

So it's not great off road and it's not aimed at performance driving. It's sort of in the middle somewhere. Good that it's offered as an option though.

Obviously the bloke driving this one doesn't know this

 

[KernowLad]

Not sure a bit of snow driving proves much - he could easily have spiked or aggressive tread snow tyres.
A RWD car would do that with the "right" tyres.

 

[WelshGas]

Possibly, but the California is not RWD.
Also, I'm not sure that Spiked Tyres are allowed on those roads. Winter tyres yes.

Just admit that the 4Motion has some abilities that the FWD 2 wheel vehicle has not. Whether you need it or want it or can afford it is a totally different matter.

 

[KernowLad]

Depends where it is; in Sweden you have to fit spiked tyres six months a year by law.

Yes 4motion has advantages; just not as much as we'd hoped and possibly not enough to justify the thirst. Oh and the weight penalty is significant but I guess if you afford all that extra weight, that magically disappears?

I'm quite pro 4wd; just not keen on Haldex having had two vehicles with it. One fast, one a camper. You're basically FWD 90% of the time.

 

[WelshGas]

Sorry but you are incorrect. Studded tyres can be used between 1st October-15th April.
Winter Tyres are Mandatory between 1st December-31st March in Sweden.

 

[KernowLad]

I used my brain not Google.
You're nit picking. My brother in law lives there with his family.

 

[WelshGas]

Sorry, I genuflect to an expert.
Just stating what the Swedish Regulations are relating to Winter Driving as I have had to abide by them in the past.
Obviously your brother in law knows better.

 

[KernowLad]

Well the law has changed then.
Anyway I won't bother arguing with the "retired at 42" genius of the forum.

Perish the thought.

 

[WelshGas]

No genius. Winter tyres have just got better.

 

[Noeleen]

I used my brain not Google.
You're nit picking. My brother in law lives there with his family.

You are not "gone" or "forgotten". You are back and insulting honourable forum members. This is a friendly, informative place, with no need for one-up-manship.

Is there a role for moderator here?

 

[Noeleen]

Well the law has changed then.
Anyway I won't bother arguing with the "retired at 42" genius of the forum.

Perish the thought.

Ditto

And you didn't read the moniker properly either.

 

[GrannyJen]

You are not "gone" or "forgotten". You are back and insulting honourable forum members. This is a friendly, informative place, with no need for one-up-manship.

Is there a role for moderator here?

Yes there is.

This is a lovely forum, friendly, informative and helpful and we do want to keep it that way.

 

[sapto]

Ive ordered a 2 wheel front drive Cali with practically every option apart from 4 Motion. But as the build has not started yet, then I still have the option to choose the 4 Motion, which I am considering. I've personally owned had experience with the two wheel drive option before and found no problems in the winter. The dealer is not even trying to encourage me to go 4 Motion.

I know that the 4 Motion adds approx 220 KG and the fuel consumption is about 10% less than the two wheel drive version.

Does anyone have any experience of owning both the these vans with 2 and 4 wheel drive running gear and can give an insight in to the pro's and cons.

many thanks

Let's go back to the question!
I guess - and I like that - there are a lot of different experiences out here in this forum about 4WD or 2 WD made in different countries and seasons.

In my case, I couldn't afford a 2nd hand 4WD Cali however I would always go for one in Switzerland and if I intend to use my Cali all year round.

 

[Bluestone]

4Motion has some abilities that the FWD 2 wheel vehicle has not

These really are insignificant though - the Cali lacks the ground clearance to do anything a FWD car can't - it does however, make it easier to get out of sticky situations for a driver not used to tackling those conditions. A good experienced driver using FWD will be able to handle anything the 4Motion can - unless it's fitted with diff locks of course

I parked next to a French guy once in the Alps after it had dumped well over 1M snow in a day! I had normal tyres on my Golf and he had 4 wheel drive AND winter tyres - he got stuck!! So after I got mine going I then jumped in his with my snow board boots on and got him out.

I just love anything 4 wheel drive so although I know it's a bit of a gimmick I'll still get the 4Motion!! Yep that's how sad I am!! ;0

 

[MarkW]

Agree with the comments above...

I'm not sure why Kernowlad wanted to come back...

I've used the forum for over 2 years and it seems to be heading backwards again...

Kernowlad wait until the T6 California has been out for a while and then you can accurately reassess if you consider it suitable for your needs.

I appreciate you had a poor experience with your T5 but the whole tone of many (not all) of your postings does not add to the friendly, informative and helpful spirit of the forum and makes me (and I'm sure others) not want to read or contribute.

 

[GrannyJen]

It's not something that anyone can be dogmatic about.

We all have had different experiences, and look forward to personal experiences that are unique to all of us with some common elements. The main common element that we all have is an interest in the California as a lifestyle vehicle and can all contribute something.

 

[Bluestone]

Actually it got me thinking (bringing this back on topic!!), there has been talk of factory fitted diff locks to the 4Motion - I couldn't see this option in the old T5 options list (just superseded) or in the new T6 options list.

Do people know if it is still available?

I did think, when going near to green lanes and the like, how cool it would be to take the Cali on some serious off-roading - but then I thought it would take me another day to sort all the stuff flying around in the back!! I'm not that great at organising stuff in the back cupboards etc.!

I went down a hill so steep in my Landy once all the stuff from the back hit the windscreen!! (Don't worry we're talking paper and light weight bits ) And I don't remember anything actually hitting me - or I was just a little bit scared just how steep it was

 

[T6 CFO]

Actually it got me thinking (bringing this back on topic!!), there has been talk of factory fitted diff locks to the 4Motion - I couldn't see this option in the old T5 options list (just superseded) or in the new T6 options list.

Do people know if it is still available?

I did think, when going near to green lanes and the like, how cool it would be to take the Cali on some serious off-roading - but then I thought it would take me another day to sort all the stuff flying around in the back!! I'm not that great at organising stuff in the back cupboards etc.!

I went down a hill so steep in my Landy once all the stuff from the back hit the windscreen!! (Don't worry we're talking paper and light weight bits ) And I don't remember anything actually hitting me - or I was just a little bit scared just how steep it was

For me it would be for the driving stability and grip in extreme conditions. I should imagine this is the issue for most. A fairly simple trade off between possible advantages in those areas and the reduced fuel consumption and purchase cost.
I believe we have many different opinions as we have many different uses.
I am not overly concerned with the cost as it already makes me shudder. I am though not going to compromise so I shall wait.
In my experience I and expect many others are a little guilty of looking for positive comments on our views so opposing views are good.
I could ramble on for hours but will spare you all
It is a great board and no doubt now and again feathers will get ruffled but we are a fairly passionate lot or wouldn't be here.

 

[GrannyJen]

Actually it got me thinking (bringing this back on topic!!), there has been talk of factory fitted diff locks to the 4Motion - I couldn't see this option in the old T5 options list (just superseded) or in the new T6 options list.

Do people know if it is still available?

I did think, when going near to green lanes and the like, how cool it would be to take the Cali on some serious off-roading - but then I thought it would take me another day to sort all the stuff flying around in the back!! I'm not that great at organising stuff in the back cupboards etc.!

I went down a hill so steep in my Landy once all the stuff from the back hit the windscreen!! (Don't worry we're talking paper and light weight bits ) And I don't remember anything actually hitting me - or I was just a little bit scared just how steep it was

I would not like to take my Cali serious off-roading. I have already experienced the teeth-jarring, nerve-jangling crunch and screech of bottom hitting rock, I am quite happy with it's green-laning performance in very wet conditions, and it's "get me out of this" mud flat performance watching a high-rising tide coming towards me.

However it's entry and exit angle clearance is sump-scraping low, the spare wheel carrier would need moving and it carries my wardrobe which I would not want to see creased by clothes flying off shelves and hangars,

4WD is something that I would always have if only because I have always had it, and also because my need, desire and reckless impulsiveness will always draw me well off the beaten track where survival becomes a major consideration. In other words to me it is an insurance policy, not a declaration of "Being better" or "going where others cannot reach".

 

[Bluestone]

I would not like to take my Cali serious off-roading

Yeah, this was a little tongue in cheek from me, as you say, the Cali may be 4Motion but it's no Land Rover that's for sure!! Thank goodness then they would be breaking down all over the place

As you say it does give a bit of piece of mind, but it certainly (in the 4Motion format) doesn't mean you will be able to go anywhere. People still need to be careful - I've seen a Land Rover get stuck in a muddle puddle (literally).

However, with diff locks it will get you out of sticky situations that a normal FWD won't.

So back to my question above - does the diff lock factory option exist on the T6 or has it been deleted??

 

[GrannyJen]

Yeah, this was a little tongue in cheek from me, as you say, the Cali may be 4Motion but it's no Land Rover that's for sure!! Thank goodness then they would be breaking down all over the place

As you say it does give a bit of piece of mind, but it certainly (in the 4Motion format) doesn't mean you will be able to go anywhere. People still need to be careful - I've seen a Land Rover get stuck in a muddle puddle (literally).

However, with diff locks it will get you out of sticky situations that a normal FWD won't.

So back to my question above - does the diff lock factory option exist on the T6 or has it been deleted??

I think that it has been deleted, which is a shame.

 

[Bluestone]

I think that it has been deleted, which is a shame.

Yes it is a shame

 

[KernowLad]

Diff locks deleted? That's half the point of 4motion!

We "accidentally" went a bit too off road in ours a couple of times; proper side bar thwacking, underside bashing stuff on tracks that were rather less smooth than we thought; it copes well but it made me really wince.

Where 4motion shines is those muddy or wet grassy sites without too many bumps. Then it works well. I'm still not discounting it entirely from a T6 order.

Mark W; I came back to ask about buying another Cali. Sorry I'm not waxing lyrical about them, sorry I'm not singing from the roof tops and making you feel all warm and fluffy but the fact is, ours and many others have been sub standard for reliability. It seems there's an element of bad luck but enough issues to cause concern.

Having trawled the market, we still keep coming back to a Cali again. Should we buy one, will you be telling me off every time I dare criticise them? Having had one for three years, wild camped, toured Europe, Scotland, etc I happen to know a fair bit about them; bleating about the return of someone who got a little "burnt" in the past returning is rather silly.