California Beach T6.1 Lithium Leisure Battery Upgrade

[Calibeau]

Hello fellow California owners! I’m hoping someone might be able to offer advice / thoughts on what challenges I would face upgrading the factory AGM leisure battery in our T6.1 California Beach.

My understanding is a direct swap to lithium based is not possible due to the VW battery management split charging system which is only designed for AGM batteries.

Without getting overly technical, my understanding is the battery chemistry difference between the two types is the main problem when considering the above.

I would also assume that disconnecting the factory charger could potentially throw an error as well as mess up battery charging level reporting on the camp control unit screen.

Does anyone happen to know if there are options to address / replace or upgrade from the VW split charging system to accomodate a lithium battery?

 

[Sepastis51]

Hello fellow California owners! I’m hoping someone might be able to offer advice / thoughts on what challenges I would face upgrading the factory AGM leisure battery in our T6.1 California Beach.

My understanding is a direct swap to lithium based is not possible due to the VW battery management split charging system which is only designed for AGM batteries.

Without getting overly technical, my understanding is the battery chemistry difference between the two types is the main problem when considering the above.

I would also assume that disconnecting the factory charger could potentially throw an error as well as mess up battery charging level reporting on the camp control unit screen.

Does anyone happen to know if there are options to address / replace or upgrade from the VW split charging system to accomodate a lithium battery?

Hi Calibeau,

It doesn't look like you got any response on your post. I would be interested in doing the same on my California Beach 2022. And retain the use of existing control unit (as supposed a installing another.

Have you had any luck in getting information elsewhere?

Thanks!

 

[yossarian]

A big obstacle will be getting the new batteries to report their status to the control panel via the LIN bus.

Load management is performed based on this data.

 

[Calibeau]

Hi Calibeau,

It doesn't look like you got any response on your post. I would be interested in doing the same on my California Beach 2022. And retain the use of existing control unit (as supposed a installing another.

Have you had any luck in getting information elsewhere?

Thanks!

Unfortunately not, the factory AGM battery is required for the on board battery management system to properly charge and maintain the standard battery. Using anything other than AGM would cause issues in our case.

I've since installed a seperate 110ah lithium leisure battery under our driver's seat and moved the Cali's accessories including interior lights over to this battery which is working great.

I use a Victron energy controller for my 300 watt roof solar input which is easily switchable between the AGM and Lithium and a seperate Redrac 40 amp charger which allows me to simultaneously charge both batteries when the Cali is running.

Sounds complicated but in reality was the best option for us, at least here in Australia as these Cali's are still a bit of a misunderstood and unique thing.

 

[California_Ocean]

I have done a lot of work trying to work out how best to replace the two AGMs on my Ocean with Lithium. Currently my solar install charges starter and leisure batteries and looks like this ... one of the main requirements was to avoid issues with the camper unit, start stop etc.



The problem with a lithium swap is that not only is the alternator unsuitable for charging lithium batteries, the VW charger also has an AGM charge profile. Both problems could probably be overcome with DC-DC charger and a bit of rewiring but the biggest issue I see are the shunts and battery monitoring in the camper unit - it is expecting two 75Ah AGMs and has low-battery cut off for fridge etc, as well as predictions of time to empty and a display of charge state. This would be a bit confused when attached to Li batteries. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that a separate Lithium system would be the way to go, attached to the vehicle with something like a Victron Smart BMS 12/200.

 

[Greg&Mel Australian Cali]

Hi Calibeau,
I am a new T6.1 Beach owner in Perth. I am keen to know more about your lithium install under the drivers seat. What size lithium fits, brands etc. Did you install it yourself? What is required to swap the outputs to it etc.
The AGM leisure battery is woefully inadequate for Australia and I really don’t want to take up any of the limited storage in front of my rear kitchen. Any advice appreciated.

 

[Trojax]

The only real benefit of changing to Lithium batteries is the amount of power you can use ie discharging it down to 85% without any damage to the battery. Against an AGM that will not like going much below 50% or higher. Looking at our 6.1 on a full charge it will go for about 50 hours as most of the things are very low power, even the inverter under the drivers seat is limited to 300watts. When you offset this against the Price of the Lithium and the limitations of the charger and set up from factory, I don't see me ever changing. And now that I have discovered the setting to charge to Max when moving I am even re evaluating the need for a solar panel on the roof.....But its your money LOL

 

[HowieDog]

We have a factory fit combination in the Hymer. There is a 110ah AGM battery that is part of the Hymer Smart system. A lithium battery is connected to the AGM battery. It’s an interesting solution as the lithium charges very quickly and as mentioned before has 80% usable capacity and is much lighter.
This may be a simple solution to retain the existing VW AGM and charger and look at whether a lithium could be added as extra capacity.

Hymer use the BOS LE300, not cheap but is working well so far.

 

[Trojax]

We have a factory fit combination in the Hymer. There is a 110ah AGM battery that is part of the Hymer Smart system. A lithium battery is connected to the AGM battery. It’s an interesting solution as the lithium charges very quickly and as mentioned before has 80% usable capacity and is much lighter.
This may be a simple solution to retain the existing VW AGM and charger and look at whether a lithium could be added as extra capacity.

Hymer use the BOS LE300, not cheap but is working well so far.

Hi yes I see it has its own BMS built in, but still not sure about the cost difference. Ask me in a years time LOL

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

Unfortunately not, the factory AGM battery is required for the on board battery management system to properly charge and maintain the standard battery. Using anything other than AGM would cause issues in our case.

I've since installed a seperate 110ah lithium leisure battery under our driver's seat and moved the Cali's accessories including interior lights over to this battery which is working great.

I use a Victron energy controller for my 300 watt roof solar input which is easily switchable between the AGM and Lithium and a seperate Redrac 40 amp charger which allows me to simultaneously charge both batteries when the Cali is running.

Sounds complicated but in reality was the best option for us, at least here in Australia as these Cali's are still a bit of a misunderstood and unique thing.

Hi

I'm planning to go 110ah Lipo4 for both the leisure batteries and would like to ask if you could let me know the make and model of the battery that fitted under the seat please? TIA

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

Unfortunately not, the factory AGM battery is required for the on board battery management system to properly charge and maintain the standard battery. Using anything other than AGM would cause issues in our case.

I've since installed a seperate 110ah lithium leisure battery under our driver's seat and moved the Cali's accessories including interior lights over to this battery which is working great.

I use a Victron energy controller for my 300 watt roof solar input which is easily switchable between the AGM and Lithium and a seperate Redrac 40 amp charger which allows me to simultaneously charge both batteries when the Cali is running.

Sounds complicated but in reality was the best option for us, at least here in Australia as these Cali's are still a bit of a misunderstood and unique thing.

Hi

What make and model of lithium did you use to place under the driver's seat, please? TIA

 

[Kayleigh]

Hi

What make and model of lithium did you use to place under the driver's seat, please? TIA

You can get a number of batteries to go under the drivers seat (Google search: vw under seat battery). I know Roamer do one. However, with any of them you would need to check the space under the drivers seat. If you have a 6.1 with inverter it likely won’t fit.

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

You can get a number of batteries to go under the drivers seat (Google search: vw under seat battery). I know Roamer do one. However, with any of them you would need to check the space under the drivers seat. If you have a 6.1 with inverter it likely won’t fit.

Thanks. The problem I'm having is speaking with a professional outfit or individual that has actually done it

 

[Kayleigh]

Thanks. The problem I'm having is speaking with a professional outfit or individual that has actually done it

Probably not many. You could give Roamer a call. I looked into this some time ago and they were quite helpful on the phone. In the end I decided I didn’t need a lithium battery.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks. The problem I'm having is speaking with a professional outfit or individual that has actually done it

I think you will find it very difficult. Installing Lithium batteries in a Conversion would be relatively straightforward as you have a blank canvas. On the California T6.1 a lot of the Leisure facilities are integrated into the Control Panel. Pre 6.1s have a lot less integration.
Besides a Lithium ready DC to DC replacement for the split charge relay the EHU mains charger may have to be changed and whether the Control Panel software can cope with the changes is a moot point.

 

[Kayleigh]

I think you will find it very difficult. Installing Lithium batteries in a Conversion would be relatively straightforward as you have a blank canvas. On the California T6.1 a lot of the Leisure facilities are integrated into the Control Panel. Pre 6.1s have a lot less integration.
Besides a Lithium ready DC to DC replacement for the split charge relay the EHU mains charger may have to be changed and whether the Control Panel software can cope with the changes is a moot point.

As I mentioned on a similar thread… The first question I would ask is why do you need lithium batteries?

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

Looks like I'm going to have to settle with having solar installed, connected up to the existing AGMs and in the scottish winter months, take a Jackery with me

I think you will find it very difficult. Installing Lithium batteries in a Conversion would be relatively straightforward as you have a blank canvas. On the California T6.1 a lot of the Leisure facilities are integrated into the Control Panel. Pre 6.1s have a lot less integration.
Besides a Lithium ready DC to DC replacement for the split charge relay the EHU mains charger may have to be changed and whether the Control Panel software can cope with the changes is a moot point.

Looks like I'm going to have to settle with having solar installed, connected up to the existing AGMs and in the scottish winter months, take a Jackery with me

 

[WelshGas]

Looks like I'm going to have to settle with having solar installed, connected up to the existing AGMs and in the scottish winter months, take a Jackery with me

Looks like I'm going to have to settle with having solar installed, connected up to the existing AGMs and in the scottish winter months, take a Jackery with me

How long do you plan to stay off grid without driving?

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

How long do you plan to stay off grid without driving?

Up to a week

 

[WelshGas]

Up to a week

Easily done with a little forethought.

 

[Califan61]

Probably not many. You could give Roamer a call. I looked into this some time ago and they were quite helpful on the phone. In the end I decided I didn’t need a lithium battery.

Try Roadpro in Daventry, they specialise in lithium for leisure vehicles and have upgraded California's. They go to many of the main camping shows too.