CRS Performance Thank You

[grantmckelvie]

Another public thank you to Steve at CRS performance for sprinkling fairy dust (and Koni Active shocks, ARB and spacers) to my 2018 Cali Ocean - different van on the way home. Grounded, quieter, and less cross wind effect. Thanks also for excellent customer service. Cheers.

 

[royalv2]

Grant, I’m thinking of getting the same done; were the spacers to raise the rear? If so, is that noticeable inside the van in terms of levels (table and beds levels etc)? Cheers,

 

[soulstyledevon]

Grant, I’m thinking of getting the same done; were the spacers to raise the rear? If so, is that noticeable inside the van in terms of levels (table and beds levels etc)? Cheers,

I had to take mine out.
The van with rear spacers will not be level…

 

[royalv2]

I had to take mine out.
The van with rear spacers will not be level…

Thanks soulstyle, I guess it’s a handling of the van vs living in the van compromise and to be fair to CRS, they’re aiming to sort the handling. Are you still happy with the remainder of the suspension upgrades over stock (less the spacers)?

 

[soulstyledevon]

Thanks soulstyle, I guess it’s a handling of the van vs living in the van compromise and to be fair to CRS, they’re aiming to sort the handling. Are you still happy with the remainder of the suspension upgrades over stock (less the spacers)?

I ditched the lower springs and kept the shocks. The ride lowered wasn’t bad, but can’t say it was great either. I was happy to see it return to standard.

Some guys are happy enough with their lowered Californias, however this is an area that is very subjective and it’s each to their own.
It’s a bit like owning a mattress. Some prefer softer, some prefer firmer.

My lowering van days are over, if anything I think the raised suspension makes more sense than lowered on a Cali…

 

[Cali Phillip]

I ditched the lower springs and kept the shocks. The ride lowered wasn’t bad, but can’t say it was great either. I was happy to see it return to standard.

Some guys are happy enough with their lowered Californias, however this is an area that is very subjective and it’s each to their own.
It’s a bit like owning a mattress. Some prefer softer, some prefer firmer.

My lowering van days are over, if anything I think the raised suspension makes more sense than lowered on a Cali…

Do the Koni active shocks make much difference on the std springs ?

 

[soulstyledevon]

Do the Koni active shocks make much difference on the std springs ?

Not a lot.
I wouldn’t change a perfectly good working pair of shocks for them. However, if you had a damaged or worn shock, they would be a good replacement.

If you’re going down the lowered van route they make more sense to pair them with a shorter spring, they will work better in that scenario.

 

[Cali Phillip]

Not a lot.
I wouldn’t change a perfectly good working pair of shocks for them. However, if you had a damaged or worn shock, they would be a good replacement.

If you’re going down the lowered van route they make more sense to pair them with a shorter spring, because they will work better in that scenario.

That good to know, I often feel the std set up is not bad, often surprised as its quieter than our other vehicle so we can be doing the same pace. Very tight bends excepted.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

That good to know, I often feel the std set up is not bad, often surprised as its quieter than our other vehicle so we can be doing the same pace. Very tight bends excepted.

Just fitting ARB’s will make a big difference on twisty country lanes.

 

[tedgina]

I had to take mine out.
The van with rear spacers will not be level…

Not again

 

[TheDoc]

Stance looks great from the pic and I’d go for that any day over over being perfectly level inside. Most places I’ve camped slope one way or another and if that’s the sort of thing that bothers you then just drive a bit higher up your levelling blocks. Personally I’d rather chuck the levelling blocks on the fire pit, enjoy a few evening shandies under the stars and sleep like a sloping log but appreciate everyone is different.

 

[pnmassey]

Another recommendation for this upgrade by Steve @CRS from me! I had this done in October (Koni Special Active shocks, H&R ARBs, spacers… no lowering springs) and have had plenty of driving time on my local, twisty, potholed country lanes to form an opinion. I can honestly say it is a huge improvement! My main issue with the factory suspension on my 2016 Ocean was the harshness on rough surfaces and that has been greatly improved but not entirely eliminated; but I put that down to the stiff sidewalls on the original fit Continental van tyres. The biggest improvement though is in the reduction in pitch and roll and much better body control… I.e. better/flatter handling around corners (no lurching!), reduced pitching under braking makes the brakes actually feel stronger (yes, really!). Anyway, I also drive an Alpina (masters of suspension set up) so have a good reference point… no clearly, not as good as that …but the Cali is now a lot closer! Oh and I can’t say I have even noticed the fact that the floor is not level …but then the roads and campsites that I frequent aren’t exactly level either!!

 

[66tim99]

Just fitting ARB’s will make a big difference on twisty country lanes.

I had ARBs (only)from Steve on my MY22 6.1. He was surprised when he took the factory ones off they were only a few mm thinner than his upgrade. VW have seemingly upgraded their own ARBs now

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I had ARBs (only)from Steve on my MY22 6.1. He was surprised when he took the factory ones off they were only a few mm thinner than his upgrade. VW have seemingly upgraded their own ARBs now

Mine is 2012 Beach, so later Oceans might have had different kit as standard.

Since fitting have noticed a big difference, has got rid of the wallow and makes the drive alot more comfortable especially on twisty A-roads. We had the van remapped at the same time so it’s now super smooth to drive.

 

[Phoenix387]

I posted on here recently after visiting Steve, so don’t propose to add the text again. With regards to the van sitting level, VW design the suspension to have the van sit level at a pre-determined load. We then all deviate away from this reference weight by how we load and use our vans. Therefore, it is unlikely that most of us arrive at a site, drive onto a level pitch and find the van is exactly level.

Before visiting CRS, my T6 was level if just used by myself and with approx 1/2 tank diesel and a full water tank. Go on holiday as a family of 4, roof box, bike rack, full water tanks, storage boxes in the back etc….and even after unloading, the van sat too low at the back (and also ran the risk of bottoming out on sleeping policeman when driving). I purposely visited Steve’s premises for the work to be carried out with the van as close to a typical heavy family load as I could get. This gave Steve the best opportunity to optimise the set up for our camping needs. The compromise? The van sits fairly high at the rear in day to day use but sits almost perfectly level on a camping trip. The Konis and spacers have transformed the driving characteristics of the van and allowed it to maintain a level stance when fully laden. I didn’t care about lowering the stance as I wanted a higher ride height to avoid damaging the underslung water tank and water drain outlet. Admittedly, the Davenports look even smaller than before but this will be rectified with larger alloys at some point.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I posted on here recently after visiting Steve, so don’t propose to add the text again. With regards to the van sitting level, VW design the suspension to have the van sit level at a pre-determined load. We then all deviate away from this reference weight by how we load and use our vans. Therefore, it is unlikely that most of us arrive at a site, drive onto a level pitch and find the van is exactly level.

Before visiting CRS, my T6 was level if just used by myself and with approx 1/2 tank diesel and a full water tank. Go on holiday as a family of 4, roof box, bike rack, full water tanks, storage boxes in the back etc….and even after unloading, the van sat too low at the back (and also ran the risk of bottoming out on sleeping policeman when driving). I purposely visited Steve’s premises for the work to be carried out with the van as close to a typical heavy family load as I could get. This gave Steve the best opportunity to optimise the set up for our camping needs. The compromise? The van sits fairly high at the rear in day to day use but sits almost perfectly level on a camping trip. The Konis and spacers have transformed the driving characteristics of the van and allowed it to maintain a level stance when fully laden. I didn’t care about lowering the stance as I wanted a higher ride height to avoid damaging the underslung water tank and water drain outlet. Admittedly, the Davenports look even smaller than before but this will be rectified with larger alloys at some point.

This is incorrect information.
Volkswagen will know the average carrying weight and have designed the California with those parameters in mind. The stock suspension on a loaded California doesn’t change angle in the way adding spacers do. Loads are spread along the axis.
Since I’ve removed my spacers, I’ve yet to use my levelling ramps and the van feels less twitchy and more planted when driving. It’s was unbalanced with the spacers installed, no question.
If you want to try the shocks, then great. But from my experience the Spacers are a big no no, on a California…

Btw, I’m not trying to discredit anyone here. But after 20 plus years in the modded Volkswagen van scene. I’ve had lots of experience of different mods and also seen the usual sheep mentality that goes with them.
I guess it comes down to personal preference and wether you trust the safety parameters/build with Volkswagen or a back street garage.

 

[Phoenix387]

I agree that the California leaves the factory with beefed up suspension to take the extra loads compared to the other variants of the chassis. Not all Californias maintain a level stance irrespective of the load. If they did, there wouldn’t be so many discussions about camper sag for camper conversions (as in my case) and with California owners who load their vehicles up. The load may well be spread but the ride height changes. That can be seen with naked eye. I’ve no doubt the specification that VW calculates is correct but I question the quality of the suspension judging by the limited lifespan of the suspension components in my last 7 VW vehicles. I’ve suffered dampers leaking after 30K miles, broken springs due to corrosion, broken drop links, bushes failing early etc…. My friend owns a Passat with adaptive suspension. 5 years old, 40k miles, all dampers replaced due corrosion and leaking. So, while you may be correct in trusting the safety parameters built into the design, the components are below par, which was also a motivating factor in using aftermarket components.

It does come down to personal preference and any improvement is subjective. Sadly the comment about a back street garage in relation to CRS and other decent VW specialists is quite an insult given the level of experience Steve has accrued over many years in the industry.

 

[WelshGas]

I agree that the California leaves the factory with beefed up suspension to take the extra loads compared to the other variants of the chassis. Not all Californias maintain a level stance irrespective of the load. If they did, there wouldn’t be so many discussions about camper sag for camper conversions (as in my case) and with California owners who load their vehicles up. The load may well be spread but the ride height changes. That can be seen with naked eye. I’ve no doubt the specification that VW calculates is correct but I question the quality of the suspension judging by the limited lifespan of the suspension components in my last 7 VW vehicles. I’ve suffered dampers leaking after 30K miles, broken springs due to corrosion, broken drop links, bushes failing early etc…. My friend owns a Passat with adaptive suspension. 5 years old, 40k miles, all dampers replaced due corrosion and leaking. So, while you may be correct in trusting the safety parameters built into the design, the components are below par, which was also a motivating factor in using aftermarket components.

It does come down to personal preference and any improvement is subjective. Sadly the comment about a back street garage in relation to CRS and other decent VW specialists is quite an insult given the level of experience Steve has accrued over many years in the industry.

110,000 miles, 7 yrs. Original springs and dampers. No broken springs/leaking dampers, so not very substandard.
Perfectly level stance, by accurate measurement not by eye, when empty or loaded, but then we don't overload.

 

[clarinetbcn]

1. When the van is level measured by the floor, it's obvious that the rear wheel arches are cut lower than the fronts.
2. Some people like the look of wheel arches front to back being the same height, but there seems to be a lot of confusion about same wheel arches front to back = level van. It's not, same wheel arches = raised rear.
3. Why would anyone with a basic knowledge of physics think that raising the rear of such a heavy vehicle above level, and thus the center of gravity in relation to the front, could possibly help stability? Other variables (HD springs, ARB) can affect the equation, but higher center of gravity = less stability.
4. I was, to put it mildly, surprised to see Steve on the T6 forum say that Californias should not have a level floor, because all panel vans leave the factory higher at the rear. Of course they do. VW designed the empty panel vans that way so they would be level when they're loaded.

 

[soulstyledevon]

1. When the van is level measured by the floor, it's obvious that the rear wheel arches are cut lower than the fronts.
2. Some people like the look of wheel arches front to back being the same height, but there seems to be a lot of confusion about same wheel arches front to back = level van. It's not, same wheel arches = raised rear.
3. Why would anyone with a basic knowledge of physics think that raising the rear of such a heavy vehicle above level, and thus the center of gravity in relation to the front, could possibly help stability? Other variables (HD springs, ARB) can affect the equation, but higher center of gravity = less stability.
4. I was, to put it mildly, surprised to see Steve on the T6 forum say that Californias should not have a level floor, because all panel vans leave the factory higher at the rear. Of course they do. VW designed the empty panel vans that way so they would be level when they're loaded.

Exactly.
Point 4 is my typical frustrations with the mods scene and the lack of understanding between different platforms.

 

[66tim99]

1. When the van is level measured by the floor, it's obvious that the rear wheel arches are cut lower than the fronts.
2. Some people like the look of wheel arches front to back being the same height, but there seems to be a lot of confusion about same wheel arches front to back = level van. It's not, same wheel arches = raised rear.
3. Why would anyone with a basic knowledge of physics think that raising the rear of such a heavy vehicle above level, and thus the center of gravity in relation to the front, could possibly help stability? Other variables (HD springs, ARB) can affect the equation, but higher center of gravity = less stability.
4. I was, to put it mildly, surprised to see Steve on the T6 forum say that Californias should not have a level floor, because all panel vans leave the factory higher at the rear. Of course they do. VW designed the empty panel vans that way so they would be level when they're loaded.

4. Didn't VW also design the California to be raised at the rear (albeit less than the Transporter) to enable the inevitable loading to level the van? ie. Steve was correct?

 

[soulstyledevon]

4. Didn't VW also design the California to be raised at the rear (albeit less than the Transporter) to enable the inevitable loading to level the van? ie. Steve was correct?

Did Volkswagen design the California to be arse up when loaded…???

 

[66tim99]

Did Volkswagen design the California to be arse up when loaded…???

No when unloaded - to allow it to be level when loaded

 

[soulstyledevon]

No when unloaded - to allow it to be level when loaded

It doesn’t move that much on a California, especially with the T32 springs that come from factory.

My Cali didn’t feel right in the corners with spacers and standard springs. It was a real concern…
Once they were removed, the van felt worlds better.

 

[clarinetbcn]

4. Didn't VW also design the California to be raised at the rear (albeit less than the Transporter) to enable the inevitable loading to level the van? ie. Steve was correct?

No, on the T6 forum he says that the California should be raised when loaded by the same amount as the empty Transporters coming off the assembly line, 40-50mm. He specifically says that a California which has a level floor when loaded will suffer from the steering going "light", and that if California owners want to put up with defective steering in order to have level beds and kitchens, that's our choice.

T6.1 And Eibach Springs (beware)

Just to let you know I had the 30mm lowering springs fitted to my 2020 T6.1 California. The rear was too low and the van sloped to the rear. VW would not do anything about it - however I have just received an email from Eibach who have admited they are aware of the problem and have just received...

www.t6forum.com

CRS Performance​

Suspension Specialist​

Trade Member
T6 Legend

• 18 Mar 2021
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• #32

...

...Its been proved by thousands of camper conversion owners that the drop in the rear ( normally about 25 to 30 mm ) causes the steering to go light because the rake angle which is 40 mm on a standard Van ( 50 mm on a T 32 ) is 10 to 15 mm after the conversion ,. , Its also a fact that when we put a camper on to the corner weight scales the increase in weight is all on the back axle this explains why the front wheel arch gap stays standard .
If Cali owners want to drive a van with compromised steering feel so that the floor is level when parked up , I guess they can . I have had many conversations with Cali owners who are convinced VW meant it to be like that , Whilst all the after marker suspension Gurus will argue this point it is at the end of the day personal choice...