EGR failure AGAIN & software update

[WendyHope]

Hello, I am looking for advice . We purchased our VW California in Feb 2019 from a VW dealership. When it was just out of warranty in Sept 2021 the EGR cooler went at a cost of ~£1500. We had the work done, fitted a genuine VW approved part and less than 3 years later the EGR has gone again, this time we have been quoted £1800. We have not yet had the work done, its a lot of money and we are annoyed, surely a quality part should last longer, we can not afford to get this part replaced every 2/3 years.

I have since learnt that in October 2022 our California was due a software update. We have been in contact with our local VW garage since this time and have never been informed of the need to update any software. The reason for the software update is because the European Court of Justice took VW to court and said that their software was not communicating correctly with the emission control systems, which include the EGR valve, and the European Court of Justice decision says that software updates have a direct impact on the functioning of emission-related components. It all seems to be about the ambient temperature, which because we live in the UK means that we are often below the temperature at which the EGR will be functioning correctly. This now adds to my feeling that the EGR the first one and second one was not fit for purpose.

I have of course gone to VW and its like a brick wall. The part is out of warranty and they said it was our responsibility to check for updates (even though we had been to a VW dealership during this period of time, yet because we were not going to the garage for an emissions related problem they did not need to tell us about the update! Therefore I have no idea how they expected us to know this information).

Any tips on how I get over that brick wall and get VW to take responsibility for this?
Thank you

 

[pjm-84]

Tamfet it.... Note that one benefit of manufacturer servicing is the fact that they should apply manufacturer's updates.

VW....good luck but they won't be interested

 

[WendyHope]

Save yourself some money and get the EGR blanked off + EGR delete (software).

Drop below an email:

Darkside Developments - Performance Diesel Tuning

Darkside Developments is a UK based diesel tuning company, specialising in VAG (VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda), BMW, MINI & Porsche Diesel Vehicles

www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk

Yes I have read about this. Does this just release the emissions into the air...

Thank you for the reply

 

[WendyHope]

Tamfet it.... Note that one benefit of manufacturer servicing is the fact that they should apply manufacturer's updates.

VW....good luck but they won't be interested

Do we really need to do this? How normal is it for an EGR to last less than 3 years in a VW van? If we do not Tamfet it, then should we be expecting it to fail in 3 years again.

VW do not care. Apparently quality parts = less than 3 years. They have all the power and I have none.

 

[24OCEAN]

Did you ever refer to the Financial or Motor Ombudsman. If they can’t repair after one attempt the vehicle could be rejected. As you reported in warranty does that not give you some bargaining ground?

 

[pjm-84]

Yes I have read about this. Does this just release the emissions into the air...

Thank you for the reply

The EGR takes some of the exhaust gases and recirculates this back into the engine. Obviously there will be a reduction in emissions as you're burning it again. On the plus side the engine runs cleaner and uses less fuel. I would say mine is 8% plus better on fuel.

 

[briwy]

Hello, I am looking for advice . We purchased our VW California in Feb 2019 from a VW dealership. When it was just out of warranty in Sept 2021 the EGR cooler went at a cost of ~£1500. We had the work done, fitted a genuine VW approved part and less than 3 years later the EGR has gone again, this time we have been quoted £1800. We have not yet had the work done, its a lot of money and we are annoyed, surely a quality part should last longer, we can not afford to get this part replaced every 2/3 years.

I have since learnt that in October 2022 our California was due a software update. We have been in contact with our local VW garage since this time and have never been informed of the need to update any software. The reason for the software update is because the European Court of Justice took VW to court and said that their software was not communicating correctly with the emission control systems, which include the EGR valve, and the European Court of Justice decision says that software updates have a direct impact on the functioning of emission-related components. It all seems to be about the ambient temperature, which because we live in the UK means that we are often below the temperature at which the EGR will be functioning correctly. This now adds to my feeling that the EGR the first one and second one was not fit for purpose.

I have of course gone to VW and its like a brick wall. The part is out of warranty and they said it was our responsibility to check for updates (even though we had been to a VW dealership during this period of time, yet because we were not going to the garage for an emissions related problem they did not need to tell us about the update! Therefore I have no idea how they expected us to know this information).

Any tips on how I get over that brick wall and get VW to take responsibility for this?
Thank you

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VW strikes again.

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vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[The Fockers]

My experience with EGR valves is mostly with my Freelander2. It started going into "restricted performance" and my local indy tried to cure it but failed several times. So my research through forums said that it was the EGR valve clogging up with soot and failing. I got a man in to delete the EGR from the ECU mapping and blank it off. After that was done the car ran perfectly for the 3 years until I sold it just after buying my California.
I was very pleased to see in the receipts when I recently bought my Cali that it had already been done.
IMO the EGR is a stupid idea to try to reduce emissions because they always get clogged up and cost a fortune to replace, as the OP on here has intimated.

 

[WendyHope]

Clearly there is agreement that the EGR should be removed, it is not fit for purpose. VW of course do not agree. Yet the below pasted ruling by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in my reading basically said to VW in 2022, that the EGR is not burning the particulates when the ambient temperature is below 15 degrees and above 30. As the UK is often below 15 degrees, the software in VW was often telling the vehicle 'do not burn'. In my mind if the particulates are not being burnt under 15 degrees, then they are clogging up the EGR. The court clearly ruled the part was defective and that VW had to find a remedy. So VW knew the problem, knew the EGR would fail and yet even though they had all our details and we had been in with the vehicle they did not tell us. I think this is negligence.

I would love to get the data on how many EGR parts they are selling, because I think this would be the evidence to show the part is clearly not fit for purpose.

EUR-Lex - 62020CJ0134 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

 

[WelshGas]

Clearly there is agreement that the EGR should be removed, it is not fit for purpose. VW of course do not agree. Yet the below pasted ruling by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in my reading basically said to VW in 2022, that the EGR is not burning the particulates when the ambient temperature is below 15 degrees and above 30. As the UK is often below 15 degrees, the software in VW was often telling the vehicle 'do not burn'. In my mind if the particulates are not being burnt under 15 degrees, then they are clogging up the EGR. The court clearly ruled the part was defective and that VW had to find a remedy. So VW knew the problem, knew the EGR would fail and yet even though they had all our details and we had been in with the vehicle they did not tell us. I think this is negligence.

I would love to get the data on how many EGR parts they are selling, because I think this would be the evidence to show the part is clearly not fit for purpose.

EUR-Lex - 62020CJ0134 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

Well my EGR valve is from 2014 and has covered 135,000 miles. Not bad for a part that “ is not fit for purpose “.

 

[TripleBee]

Clearly there is agreement that the EGR should be removed, it is not fit for purpose. VW of course do not agree. Yet the below pasted ruling by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in my reading basically said to VW in 2022, that the EGR is not burning the particulates when the ambient temperature is below 15 degrees and above 30. As the UK is often below 15 degrees, the software in VW was often telling the vehicle 'do not burn'. In my mind if the particulates are not being burnt under 15 degrees, then they are clogging up the EGR. The court clearly ruled the part was defective and that VW had to find a remedy. So VW knew the problem, knew the EGR would fail and yet even though they had all our details and we had been in with the vehicle they did not tell us. I think this is negligence.

I would love to get the data on how many EGR parts they are selling, because I think this would be the evidence to show the part is clearly not fit for purpose.

EUR-Lex - 62020CJ0134 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

I had to replace my EGR at 45000km, in the Dordogne in France, on a campsite (did it myself). Luckily I have the 140HP single turbo engine (T5.1).
Now I have over 200000km driven without further issues concerning the EGR (155000km).
The problem of clogging up comes from the fact that the exhaust gasses are recovered before the DPF, returning soot together with the exhaust gasses.
On newer engines they are returning the exhaust gasses from after the DPF, returning no soot with it anymore.

And the EGR doesn't burn particulates, but the DPF does (or doesn't in certain circumstances).
So for EURO5 engines, a lot of soot is returned to the intake (with the known issues), but for EURO6, or at least the latest versions, no soot is returned to the intake.

The main reason why your EGR would clog up, is your driving style. And I don't want to blame your for any issues you have with the EGR, but that is just how it is.
If you do a lot of cold runs (very short distances), your EGR will suffer more than when you would do a lot of hot runs (very long distances).

 

[WelshGas]

Clearly there is agreement that the EGR should be removed, it is not fit for purpose. VW of course do not agree. Yet the below pasted ruling by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in my reading basically said to VW in 2022, that the EGR is not burning the particulates when the ambient temperature is below 15 degrees and above 30. As the UK is often below 15 degrees, the software in VW was often telling the vehicle 'do not burn'. In my mind if the particulates are not being burnt under 15 degrees, then they are clogging up the EGR. The court clearly ruled the part was defective and that VW had to find a remedy. So VW knew the problem, knew the EGR would fail and yet even though they had all our details and we had been in with the vehicle they did not tell us. I think this is negligence.

I would love to get the data on how many EGR parts they are selling, because I think this would be the evidence to show the part is clearly not fit for purpose.

EUR-Lex - 62020CJ0134 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

Having just read that EU court judgement, I suggest you re-read it carefully.

They refer to engine air intake temperature and also tailing off of EGR function Fromm 100% to 0% at -5c, so a gradual reduction.

As stated, premature failure of the EGR or DPF is commonly associated with driving style. Short, cold start, trips will bring about such failure if not mixed with regular long distance runs. This is the Achilles heal of All diesels.

 

[WendyHope]

Thank you for the replies. Yes I get that it is driving style as well, although we have been to Spain, France, Switzerland since the last one failed, yet we do also do a lot of short trips as well. Its a vehicle, its purpose is to be driven, it did not come with a warning to not drive short distances.

I suppose I will have to give it up, probably the vehicle as well as we can not afford to keep replacing the EGR. The irony is that it was the VW garage in the first place who suggested to me that the EGR failed because we did not do the software update that we never knew about.

 

[TripleBee]

Thank you for the replies. Yes I get that it is driving style as well, although we have been to Spain, France, Switzerland since the last one failed, yet we do also do a lot of short trips as well. Its a vehicle, its purpose is to be driven, it did not come with a warning to not drive short distances.

I suppose I will have to give it up, probably the vehicle as well as we can not afford to keep replacing the EGR. The irony is that it was the VW garage in the first place who suggested to me that the EGR failed because we did not do the software update that we never knew about.

Of course they will not warn you for driving short distances. There aren't any gasoline Transporters anymore since 2017, so it's the California as is, or nothing.
And a California is mostly for long distance trips, so the last thing on my mind would be to warn you for short trip hazards.

I can only say that, even with my almost daily use of the van for 12km single trips to work and 12 back home, I haven't had any problems for the last 160000km.

In the end it's up to you what you decide to do with the van.
I won't tell you what you have to do.

 

[Justinitus]

I would have thought that an Authorised VW Service Centre should check for any updates when a vehicle is with them as part of the service, otherwise how are you as an owner supposed to know?

When I had my Golf R, the software was updated (DSG gearbox I think) while it was in having a door seal replaced and a service. I had no idea until I collected it.