Does using Coasting Function clog the EGR?

[Jon A]

The New type and old Type EGR pipes are shown in this thread (photos compared side by side) , also pictures showing the method of EGR flush , chemical used and equipment that a dealer would use to flush an EGR valve, since having this work done I have had no further issues.
I did turn off coasting immediately after having this work done , I'm now on 50+k miles no further issues.

EGR - Insufficient Flow - £1700

Hi Folks looking for some advise, I have a 2014 180 biturbo Cali (47,000 mile) and the engine warning light illuminated. Engine code CFC Took to the my local commercial VW garage in Edinburgh (where I bought it) and was told the diagnosis was "Insufficient Flow" in the EGR. Have been quoted...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Hi Perfectos,
I'll caveat the following with, this is what I've understood (but may well be wrong!):

I think the newer pipes you refer to were slightly revised versions that helped prevent the pipes failing at their weaker point in their bend. Let's called this a "type1 failure - of the plumbing to/from the EGR"
But these revised pipes still connected the same elements together. My van was one of the last T6.0 and I "think" should have already been built with these better connecting pipes

Triplebee's interesting insight is that from 2020/ T6.1 the pipes connect at a different point , which is AFTER the DFP now. Which reduces the amount of "soot/crud" going into through the EGR heat exchanger, reducing the chances of the internal honeycomb structure becoming blocked and so becomes unable to produce enough flow to do it's job (let's call that type 2 failure!)

As it happens my EGR wasn't blocked up, rather the internal barrier between hot exhaust gas and circulating coolant failed, so it was losing coolant into the cylinders. So a different problem. Type 3 - internal barrier breakdown. I'm wondering if the new plumbing layout would help with this type of fail also

 

[WelshGas]

2014 CFCA 180 Biturbo. EGR replaced at 900 miles due to electrical fault subsequently 134,000 miles fully utilising the Coast Function and Stop/Start.
Fuel used, whatever diesel available when refuelling required.
Is the CFCA EGR valve different, functions differently on later engines, or driving style to be implicated on early failure?
Mine was used almost daily, all year round and rarely on trips less than 15 miles.

 

[fluff34567]

Driving causes clogs in the EGR system. Oil vapour and soot isn't a great combination.

A catch can is a big benefit

 

[Mansfieldman750]

2014 CFCA 180 Biturbo. EGR replaced at 900 miles due to electrical fault subsequently 134,000 miles fully utilising the Coast Function and Stop/Start.
Fuel used, whatever diesel available when refuelling required.
Is the CFCA EGR valve different, functions differently on later engines, or driving style to be implicated on early failure?
Mine was used almost daily, all year round and rarely on trips less than 15 miles.

As you have often said, rightly, it is better to use the van regularly than leave it on the drive for long periods. TripleBee’s experience supports you on this.
My problem is I don’t have a regular use for the van when we’re not away in it, no commute, got a little Suzuki Ignis automatic for running round town, bus pass gets you to Nottingham for nowt.
I have a solution.
Once a week, hail rain or shine, I will take myself across to the Peak District and go for a good long walk.
Mansfield to Junction 28 or 29 on M1 will get the van up to temp. Then you are on fast dual carriageway, opportunity to drive er spiritedly, andyinluton style.
Do the walk and give the van another spanking on the way back.
Healthy van, healthy man. Way to go. Me and that van will grow old together.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

The New type and old Type EGR pipes are shown in this thread (photos compared side by side) , also pictures showing the method of EGR flush , chemical used and equipment that a dealer would use to flush an EGR valve, since having this work done I have had no further issues.
I did turn off coasting immediately after having this work done , I'm now on 50+k miles no further issues.

EGR - Insufficient Flow - £1700

Hi Folks looking for some advise, I have a 2014 180 biturbo Cali (47,000 mile) and the engine warning light illuminated. Engine code CFC Took to the my local commercial VW garage in Edinburgh (where I bought it) and was told the diagnosis was "Insufficient Flow" in the EGR. Have been quoted...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

I had a look at the pictures of the EGR pipe you took off and it brought back memories.
I bought a BSA Bantam in 1969, badly in need of a decoke. The cylinder head had that same gunge !

 

[Dill Tart]

I think its what you do when its not coasting that maters, its very easy to bimble around without going over 1500 rpm for long periods.

I'd be interested to see if its those with the fantastic mpg figures that suffer more with clogged EGRs @Dill Tart are your long journeys foot down outside lane of the motorway or 50mph on A roads?

Generally we do whatever the speed limit is on the motorways or autoroutes but, especially in France, can coast for many miles a day using the coast function on the DSG gearbox which lifts the MPG to high 30’s. I just wonder if long periods on effectively tick over would exacerbate the EGR clogging issue?

 

[Dill Tart]

Similar miles, similar conditions, full EGR replaced - including pipe, valve and whatever else comes with it.

Nothing to do with coasting. I have switched off coasting though as it is a weired feeling when coasting and then you need some power. Better when there is engine power all the time. Not sure how much fuel it saves.

Now, for EGR clogging. Does your van consume ooil between oil changes? even a little?

This is my theory for clogged EGRs. EGR is exhaust gas recirculation. Exhaust gases from combustion being recirculated to increase CO2 in the combustion mix and thus reducing the overall temperature of combusion, and thus reducing NOX.

Now, if your van consumes even a little oil between services, where do you think this oil is going? it is going into the cylinders for sure. Not all of it is being combusted for sure. and some of it is being recirculated as well. It is this oil that contributes to the clogging.

All EGRs will get clogged at some time, but oil contributes to it happening sooner.

For me, I am just treating it as a consumable and a replacement EGR at 60,000 mls and the next one at about 120,000 mls, is reasonable maintenance. Nothing alarming.

Yes, even I would prefer that things don't break down. But physics also dictates that they do.

Yes it does use a little oil, so perhaps this is the culprit. It doesn’t burn much, a top up once or twice a year, say, a litre or two over 12 months but that could be the cause. Not much I can do about that unfortunately.

 

[WelshGas]

Generally we do whatever the speed limit is on the motorways or autoroutes but, especially in France, can coast for many miles a day using the coast function on the DSG gearbox which lifts the MPG to high 30’s. I just wonder if long periods on effectively tick over would exacerbate the EGR clogging issue?

Could do.

The basics of EGRs - what they do, how they work, how to troubleshoot

Integral to the vehicle’s engine management system, the aptly named exhaust gas recirculation valve, or EGR valve for short, recirculates finely metered quantities of exhaust gas to the engine...

www.delphiautoparts.com

 

[Mansfieldman750]

I’m just trying to get my head round this.
If on the T6.1 the EGR valve now comes after the Dpf whereas previously it came before then the exhaust gases going to the EGR won’t contain soot or much less soot and the EGR valve will be less likely to clog up ?
Then why wasn’t it always like that ?
Or is it that the same amount of soot gets created which means that the Dpf is more likely to get clogged up ?
Has anyone had an EGR valve failure on a T6.1 ?

 

[WelshGas]

I’m just trying to get my head round this.
If on the T6.1 the EGR valve now comes after the Dpf whereas previously it came before then the exhaust gases going to the EGR won’t contain soot or much less soot and the EGR valve will be less likely to clog up ?
Then why wasn’t it always like that ?
Or is it that the same amount of soot gets created which means that the Dpf is more likely to get clogged up ?
Has anyone had an EGR valve failure on a T6.1 ?

Those who use their T6.1s have.

Search results for query: T6.1 EGR

www.t6forum.com

 

[andyinluton]

Generally we do whatever the speed limit is on the motorways or autoroutes but, especially in France, can coast for many miles a day using the coast function on the DSG gearbox which lifts the MPG to high 30’s. I just wonder if long periods on effectively tick over would exacerbate the EGR clogging issue?

Where do you manage to coast for miles? we've found that even in the hilly areas whilst you can roll down some of the hills they get equalled out by matching uphill parts where you have to work the engine harder. So at most you get a couple of minutes of coasting. Im just struggling with how you would have long periods on tick over.

On the steeper parts where you could theoretically coast a long way, say the decent down to Beziers when heading for Spain you need to keep it in gear to get engine braking.

 

[wildslammer22]

As you have often said, rightly, it is better to use the van regularly than leave it on the drive for long periods. TripleBee’s experience supports you on this.
My problem is I don’t have a regular use for the van when we’re not away in it, no commute, got a little Suzuki Ignis automatic for running round town, bus pass gets you to Nottingham for nowt.
I have a solution.
Once a week, hail rain or shine, I will take myself across to the Peak District and go for a good long walk.
Mansfield to Junction 28 or 29 on M1 will get the van up to temp. Then you are on fast dual carriageway, opportunity to drive er spiritedly, andyinluton style.
Do the walk and give the van another spanking on the way back.
Healthy van, healthy man. Way to go. Me and that van will grow old together.

Love this! My money is on you outlasting the van though.

 

[kurienp]

I’m just trying to get my head round this.
If on the T6.1 the EGR valve now comes after the Dpf whereas previously it came before then the exhaust gases going to the EGR won’t contain soot or much less soot and the EGR valve will be less likely to clog up ?
Then why wasn’t it always like that ?
Or is it that the same amount of soot gets created which means that the Dpf is more likely to get clogged up ?
Has anyone had an EGR valve failure on a T6.1 ?

No, there is no change in the location/sequence of the EGR and the DPF.

The DPF is a part of the exhaust system and comes after the manifold/header pipes.

The EGR is also technically a part of the exhaust system but comes close to the engine/before the manifolds from where it can help recirculate the exhaust gases.

The change is in the internals of the EGR and also the connecting pipe, though the connecting pipe was changed in rev 2 of the T6 and that has been carried over to the 6.1.

I recently got my EGR replaced. Hopefully they have used the newer version of the EGR. Missed out on asking them.

 

[Jon A]

No, there is no change in the location/sequence of the EGR and the DPF.

The DPF is a part of the exhaust system and comes after the manifold/header pipes.

The EGR is also technically a part of the exhaust system but comes close to the engine/before the manifolds from where it can help recirculate the exhaust gases.

The change is in the internals of the EGR and also the connecting pipe, though the connecting pipe was changed in rev 2 of the T6 and that has been carried over to the 6.1.

I recently got my EGR replaced. Hopefully they have used the newer version of the EGR. Missed out on asking them.

Very very interesting clarification -thank you.

So my end of production t6 should have had the new connecting pipes B4 the replacement.

I too would like to know if my new egr is the new one with modified internals. Especially since I use my van daily, drive it hard and yet it still failed with a breakdown of the internal gas/coolant barriers at 43k/5 years.

If we check the part fiches, we ought to be able to work out from the part numbers if the new 6.1 egr is compatible with a 6.0. And presumably the part number should be stamped on the actual part fitted to the vehicle -hopefully in a position that's visible once fitted.

 

[Jon A]

Very very interesting clarification -thank you.

So my end of production t6 should have had the new connecting pipes B4 the replacement.

I too would like to know if my new egr is the new one with modified internals. Especially since I use my van daily, drive it hard and yet it still failed with a breakdown of the internal gas/coolant barriers at 43k/5 years.

If we check the part fiches, we ought to be able to work out from the part numbers if the new 6.1 egr is compatible with a 6.0. And presumably the part number should be stamped on the actual part fitted to the vehicle -hopefully in a position that's visible once fitted.

So, I had a look at my van and the new components fitted by the VW main dealer. Whilst tricky to see, it is possible using an inspection mirror. My new EGR is part 04L.131.512.CF Looks that like whilst VW labelled it was manufactured by Hanon Systems for them (see pic.)

I did a search for this part, but I cannot determine whether this is the improved part for T6.1 or just for T6 up to 2019. Different website have different info, so I don't know if I have the upgraded EGR or not.

I do not have access to a t6.1 fiche to find the definitive 6.1 part number and so check if it's backwards compatible.

As a side note I do know that I had the improved link pipes fitted as part of the repair (parts 04l131521bf and 04l131521ar )

 

[The Fockers]

EGRs are a nonsense. If I were you I'd get it mapped out and blanked off. Then you'll have no more problems. I did this to my Freelander2 some years ago and have had no problems since. Thankfully my Cali had already been done when I bought it.

 

[Jon A]

EGRs are a nonsense. If I were you I'd get it mapped out and blanked off. Then you'll have no more problems. I did this to my Freelander2 some years ago and have had no problems since. Thankfully my Cali had already been done when I bought it.

Well it was just fixed for free under warranty, so I'll leave it alone for now. I might sell it over next couple of years and removing it will put off a segment of buyers.

That said, I tend to agree with you. This is only ever used on long journeys and I don't pootle. So I don't do the things that people say kills them, but it only lasted 43k. So I consider it a consumable.
If I'm back in the same position again I may remove it, but I'm not going to spend money doing that now.

 

[kurienp]

So, I had a look at my van and the new components fitted by the VW main dealer. Whilst tricky to see, it is possible using an inspection mirror. My new EGR is part 04L.131.512.CF Looks that like whilst VW labelled it was manufactured by Hanon Systems for them (see pic.)

I did a search for this part, but I cannot determine whether this is the improved part for T6.1 or just for T6 up to 2019. Different website have different info, so I don't know if I have the upgraded EGR or not.

I do not have access to a t6.1 fiche to find the definitive 6.1 part number and so check if it's backwards compatible.

As a side note I do know that I had the improved link pipes fitted as part of the repair (parts 04l131521bf and 04l131521ar )

View attachment 130833

Thank you. I will see if I can get a pic of the EGR model, when it stops raining here.

Does your van consume any oil between services?

 

[Jon A]

Thank you. I will see if I can get a pic of the EGR model, when it stops raining here.

Does your van consume any oil between services?

My van uses a little bit of oil. I put in perhaps 250ml every 3k miles. Always been at this level of consumption and I don't think anything to worry about. I'm doing about 9k per year.
It's being serviced at the VW dealer so far on the long life schedule, but I also do an interim DIY oil change so in between, so it get clean oil every 6 or 7k

 

[kurienp]

My van uses a little bit of oil. I put in perhaps 250ml every 3k miles. Always been at this level of consumption and I don't think anything to worry about. I'm doing about 9k per year.
It's being serviced at the VW dealer so far on the long life schedule, but I also do an interim DIY oil change so in between, so it get clean oil every 6 or 7k

Yes, that oil consumption is nothing to worry about, but that is a contributing factor to the EGR issue. Read up post #17.

It is not about the cleanliness of the oil or regular oil changes ... but where do you think the 250 ml of oil every 3 k miles is is going?
not all oil will get burnt in the combustion chamber
some of it will stay with the exhaust fumes
some of it will find its way out of the exhaust system
some of it will enter the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system
the egr system is not built to handle this oil
and hence the issue with the EGR.

as you say, best treated as a consumable and changed at the next 50/60K milestone. Nothing to worry about, just something to be aware of.

 

[Dill Tart]

Well it was just fixed for free under warranty, so I'll leave it alone for now. I might sell it over next couple of years and removing it will put off a segment of buyers.

That said, I tend to agree with you. This is only ever used on long journeys and I don't pootle. So I don't do the things that people say kills them, but it only lasted 43k. So I consider it a consumable.
If I'm back in the same position again I may remove it, but I'm not going to spend money doing that now.

I think blanking is possibly the best option, the van has been in the repairers for three days, EGR removed stripped & cleaned, then everything reassembled cost………£720! That’s on top of £1,200 last year & £165 diagnostic!
Think we might be ending our love affair with the camper van.

 

[66tim99]

Does it every time on mine when I take my foot off the pedal going downhill.

Not every time for me. Maybe it’s needing revs to power something else sometimes. The little e symbol is illusive!

 

[Hawthorn37]

I’ve some very recent experience of an EGR valve sticking - on my Volvo diesel rather than the Cali - but it still may be worth sharing.

The Volvo (XC40) was chugging a bit at low speeds and I was concerned it could be sticking injectors. I chatted to my very local car mechanics, and got the following.
1. It’s probably the EGR valve.
2. Do you use supermarket fuel? If so, fill up with Shell diesel about one tank in five.
3. Give the engine a good thrash, 70mph and keeping revs around 3000rpm for around 30 - 40 miles. This should clear the build up.

So, having already got a full tank of Costcos finest, I did the engine thrash routine. It had no effect, still chugging. Once the tank was nearly empty we refilled with Shell, repeating the engine thrash, and as promised the chugging has now disappeared! As smooth as smooth can be!

So I guess we will continue to fill with Shell every so often for both the Volvo and the Cali.

 

[colintfcolintf]

no matter what they say, branded fuel is better than supermarket fuel (the latter I've not used for 15-20 years now)

 

[TripleBee]

no matter what they say, branded fuel is better than supermarket fuel (the latter I've not used for 15-20 years now)

I always refuel at supermarkets in France. In Belgium I refuel at low cost stations (Gabriëls, ...). Over 200000km without any problems.
Sometimes I refuel at Total or Esso.