Grand California 2020 T6 desiel automatic not starting.

[Jude]

Picture this: Tangiers, Friday March 13, 4pm, heavy traffic, rain, mIddle lane of the main boulevard from the airport to city centre my GCT6 stopped when I slowed down to take a roundabout. Eventually everything shut down - wheels locked, which was something I suppose, because the doors wouldn't lock while it was stored at the recovery garage leaving it vulnerable to theft. When VW Tanger eventaully received it they said it started without trouble. Figure that one out. Their final conclusion was possible battery failure and recoding of the keys. They installed a new secondary battery thinking it was the starter battery.

I had been told by VW GB that the starter battery was in the engine compartment.

Last week it stopped again, but in a convient parking space in Germany. The recovery guy tried to start the battery under the bonnet with no result and was about to give up when another guy stopped and declared wrong battery! He started the battery in the footwell instantaneously - proves it is the starter battery. VW Bühl in the Black Forest tested both batteries 12.27v starter and 12.7v secondary. and recoded.

All's well.

Oh yeah? On my second stop today just outside Nuremberg it refused to start, again. I used my small portable 12v Astro charger to kick start it instantaneously. It shows full voltage now.

I have installed two new AGM batteries in one year. The kettle plug under the driver's seat is well connected. The system has supposedly been recoded. So what is going on? I am at a loss.

Is there anyone out there who may know?

Another question - do you need a reset after changing tyres?

 

[vbk1975]

Picture this: Tangiers, Friday March 13, 4pm, heavy traffic, rain, mIddle lane of the main boulevard from the airport to city centre my GCT6 stopped when I slowed down to take a roundabout. Eventually everything shut down - wheels locked, which was something I suppose, because the doors wouldn't lock while it was stored at the recovery garage leaving it vulnerable to theft. When VW Tanger eventaully received it they said it started without trouble. Figure that one out. Their final conclusion was possible battery failure and recoding of the keys. They installed a new secondary battery thinking it was the starter battery.

I had been told by VW GB that the starter battery was in the engine compartment.

Last week it stopped again, but in a convient parking space in Germany. The recovery guy tried to start the battery under the bonnet with no result and was about to give up when another guy stopped and declared wrong battery! He started the battery in the footwell instantaneously - proves it is the starter battery. VW Bühl in the Black Forest tested both batteries 12.27v starter and 12.7v secondary. and recoded.

All's well.

Oh yeah? On my second stop today just outside Nuremberg it refused to start, again. I used my small portable 12v Astro charger to kick start it instantaneously. It shows full voltage now.

I have installed two new AGM batteries in one year. The kettle plug under the driver's seat is well connected. The system has supposedly been recoded. So what is going on? I am at a loss.

Is there anyone out there who may know?

Another question - do you need a reset after changing tyres?

I would check that the starter battery earth connection to the body is tight and secure. Also check the main battery positive is secure and tight at the connections into the fuse box rather than the battery connection. Loose main battery main feeds can create all sorts of issues if they are loose and they can get very hot which can also mean they appear to be better when they have cooled or move when the vehicle is being towed, You can get odd symptoms as the alternator will power the van when the engine is running and can cover up the fact there is intermittent connections to the battery.

Not saying this is the issue, but that would be my first port of call.

A

 

[Jude]

I would check that the starter battery earth connection to the body is tight and secure. Also check the main battery positive is secure and tight at the connections into the fuse box rather than the battery connection. Loose main battery main feeds can create all sorts of issues if they are loose and they can get very hot which can also mean they appear to be better when they have cooled or move when the vehicle is being towed, You can get odd symptoms as the alternator will power the van when the engine is running and can cover up the fact there is intermittent connections to the battery.

Not saying this is the issue, but that would be my first port of call.

A

Thanks. The fuse box connections should be checked. The battery connections have been checked. If the connections were the issue wouldn't there be sporadic functionality? Some gurgling or hiccuphing which suggested poor connections. This is just complete shutdown and instantaneous startup when the cables are attached and charged? I feel strongly that the source of the problem is not battery - but then what do I know?

 

[Jude]

Okay. I have checked the mains connections - those that are in the diffiuclt to get at cabinet under the bed, wherein lies the big red mains switch. All looks sound to me, in mint connections. I am not going to pull wires around just to make sure. There are only two cables with multiple wires, I presume in and out and as I say, they look secure. I couldn't rest the night without doing what was suggested.

Surely the starter system may be at fault? We always seemed to have cars in Africa that ended up with failed starter motors and I had a Peugeot 208 last year that landed me in trouble - as if it was my fault. Could it be this?

 

[WelshGas]

Okay. I have checked the mains connections - those that are in the diffiuclt to get at cabinet under the bed, wherein lies the big red mains switch. All looks sound to me, in mint connections. I am not going to pull wires around just to make sure. There are only two cables with multiple wires, I presume in and out and as I say, they look secure. I couldn't rest the night without doing what was suggested.

Surely the starter system may be at fault? We always seemed to have cars in Africa that ended up with failed starter motors and I had a Peugeot 208 last year that landed me in trouble - as if it was my fault. Could it be this?

You've just checked the Leisure battery circuits, Not the engine/starter battery connections which are in the passenger footwell RHD and under the bonnet with the engine/vehicle fuse box.

 

[Jude]

You've just checked the Leisure battery circuits, Not the engine/starter battery connections which are in the passenger footwell RHD and under the bonnet with the engine/vehicle fuse box.

I'm learning. The footwell battery was checked by VW last week. They proposed a full diagnostic which means powering down all systems and then bringing them up again which would show any faults as the system comes up. Probably two days at some cost. Does this make sense?

 

[WelshGas]

I'm learning. The footwell battery was checked by VW last week. They proposed a full diagnostic which means powering down all systems and then bringing them up again which would show any faults as the system comes up. Probably two days at some cost. Does this make sense?

It makes sense and unless you are happy using an OBD reader or VCDS diagnostic software and a multimeter I don’t see what alternative you have. You could look for a good Independent VW specialist which would be cheaper but they would have to do similar investigations.

 

[vbk1975]

Okay. I have checked the mains connections - those that are in the diffiuclt to get at cabinet under the bed, wherein lies the big red mains switch. All looks sound to me, in mint connections. I am not going to pull wires around just to make sure. There are only two cables with multiple wires, I presume in and out and as I say, they look secure. I couldn't rest the night without doing what was suggested.

Surely the starter system may be at fault? We always seemed to have cars in Africa that ended up with failed starter motors and I had a Peugeot 208 last year that landed me in trouble - as if it was my fault. Could it be this?

If you have had complete electrical system failure, rather than a failure to start, then it would point to a significant power issue. When it fails what does and doesn't work. Do the lights (specifically check hazards & side lights), radio, dash board warning lights, locking all stop ?

 

[Jude]

Okay, important question - do I invest in an OBD diagnostic tool. I have consdered it. If I use it and it shows a fault will I be able to rectify the problem or does it take certain skills? You may think this is a stupid question, but I am not a mechanic just a 78 year old solo female traveller with a deal of practical commonsense. I have spent so much on equipment I don't want to buy something tells me what is wrong but it needs a mechanic. I had an on-board message whilst in the Atlas Mountains which said pop into the nearest VW garage. Funnily enough, there are not many VW outlets in the Moroccan desert. Their mechanics are good but not when it comes to electronics on this particular vehicle. I am heading for Berlin and I know it is going to Konk out by the Brandenburg Gate.

Will an OBD be functional and not just informative?

 

[vbk1975]

Okay, important question - do I invest in an OBD diagnostic tool. I have consdered it. If I use it and it shows a fault will I be able to rectify the problem or does it take certain skills? You may think this is a stupid question, but I am not a mechanic just a 78 year old solo female traveller with a deal of practical commonsense. I have spent so much on equipment I don't want to buy something tells me what is wrong but it needs a mechanic. I had an on-board message whilst in the Atlas Mountains which said pop into the nearest VW garage. Funnily enough, there are not many VW outlets in the Moroccan desert. Their mechanics are good but not when it comes to electronics on this particular vehicle. I am heading for Berlin and I know it is going to Konk out by the Brandenburg Gate.

Will an OBD be functional and not just informative?

A generic OBD tool is generally limited to giving Engine/Propulsion fault codes. There is a requirement that has been around for a very long time, that requires a generic way and standard way of accessing Engine/Propulsion faults. So generic OBD scan tools use this. Ideally you would look for a tool that has access to the rest of the electrical system as well, these aren't restricted to something you need to buy from VW, but you need to check they work with the Crafter. (I don't know but others will).

But.. even if you can read the fault codes it is not necessarily going to give you the repair action, more a pointer in the right direction (or something to search on the web).

The other challenge, esp. with things like power loss is that the fault codes are stored after the event, so it is also not a always going to capture what has gone on.

If it does cut out again, i know it is not first thing on your mind, but do try and take a note of anything that is working. Sidelights / Hazard lights /locking are always powered regardless (or if these are not working it narrows down what is wrong), were as other things are only active with aux or ign, so it might help to diagnose.

 

[Jude]

A generic OBD tool is generally limited to giving Engine/Propulsion fault codes. There is a requirement that has been around for a very long time, that requires a generic way and standard way of accessing Engine/Propulsion faults. So generic OBD scan tools use this. Ideally you would look for a tool that has access to the rest of the electrical system as well, these aren't restricted to something you need to buy from VW, but you need to check they work with the Crafter. (I don't know but others will).

But.. even if you can read the fault codes it is not necessarily going to give you the repair action, more a pointer in the right direction (or something to search on the web).

The other challenge, esp. with things like power loss is that the fault codes are stored after the event, so it is also not a always going to capture what has gone on.

If it does cut out again, i know it is not first thing on your mind, but do try and take a note of anything that is working. Sidelights / Hazard lights /locking are always powered regardless (or if these are not working it narrows down what is wrong), were as other things are only active with aux or ign, so it might help to diagnose.

Thank you. That is a very useful and informative reply. In the first instance everything eventually locked down step by step to the point where I could not lock the doors. Three later at the VW garage they said everything worked. ?? The other two instances the lights worked sporadically. There was clicking and flicking of lights and dashboard icons.

Would that not indicate that the starter mechanism is not engaging properly?

 

[vbk1975]

Thank you. That is a very useful and informative reply. In the first instance everything eventually locked down step by step to the point where I could not lock the doors. Three later at the VW garage they said everything worked. ?? The other two instances the lights worked sporadically. There was clicking and flicking of lights and dashboard icons.

Would that not indicate that the starter mechanism is not engaging properly?

So the symptoms definitely look like low voltage, but the fact it has happened in traffic is very abnormal. I would say the issue is likely to be in the base van side, not the camper element (Gut feel rather than absolute). Damaged / very old batteries can have shorted plates, but given both batteries have been changed this is almost certainly not the case.

I am assuming there has been no significant changes to the van, no extra electrical loads added (power bank etc)

I think a jammed starter motor could create a very rapid discharge, but i would also expect you would hear it trying to engage/turn constantly.

I have had a loose engine earth strap on a completely unrelated car that wasn't done up properly when built and would fail to start and would start.

I think we are at the limits of being able to self-diagnose without starting take parts of the van out for access, i still think this is a loose connection, but an auto-electrician is more likely to find this than a generic dealer (unless they have a specialist).

Good luck

A