Greetings from Brussels! Need 'local' advice...

[bxl_lad]

Hi,
This is a long shot... But looking to get some advice from Belgian owners (particularly T4 California's)...
We're looking to buy a T4 California here in Belgium and looking on the net found very few advertised locally, so we're now looking in Germany - plenty of choice and some good ones too...

However... Belgian authorities are quite strict on the registration of imports and especially the registration of camper vans (in Belgium there is a low road tax rate for qualifying vehicles - 135€ per year).
We're led to understand that to import into Belgium we need the 'Certificate of Conformity' (CoC - I know, an unfortunate acronym!), to state that the vehicle was originally recognised as a camper - a given you would think for an original California, but not so... For reasons be-known to VW in Germany, seems a lot of them are registered with a CoC code 37 vehicle type 'AC' (which classes them as 'station-wagons'. The correct code for Belgium would be 'SA'...

Now we know that some people have these vans registered correctly in Belgium from German imports, so any Belgians out there can give any advice on how this works? We also are seeing folks selling their Cali's in Belgium for the reason that they can't get them registered at the lower rate (incidentally the alternative is around 600€ per year, which of course is a significant difference!)

The system is infuriating... Two exact same Cali's can be registered differently simply because of this code on the CoC - physically nothing separates them...

Any advice welcome - really looking forward to becoming a T4 California owner very soon!

Cheers,
Matt
(currently California'less...)

 

[Blackbolt]

A friend of me did it ,for his beach german import,i'm thinking of doiing it also.U can email him at franky32@telenet.be, ps we speak nl

 

[bxl_lad]

A friend of me did it ,for his beach german import,i'm thinking of doiing it also.U can email him at franky32@telenet.be, ps we speak nl

Did he have the same issues with the Certificate of Conformity?
(does he also speak English - I'm a Brit living in Brussels!)

Thanks!

 

[zeratul]

I can only share some experience on the conversion process from regular car to camper.

I bought a (new!) T5 Beach in jan '15, it was delivered march 11th, put in the kitchen module I had made, did all the paper work to convert the "passenger car" they claim it be (because it lacked a kitchen) to a camper immediately and send it in. This took until october before the COC thing got resolved. A nightmare, typical Belgian burocracy "Kafka". We lost an entire summer of possible California trips.
Still I saved EUR 2000 inscription tax, 500 euro every year on insurance and road tax saves met EUR 350 a year. Disadvantage is the yearly exhaustive vehicle checkup.

But I'm in Flanders, and the waiting queues here are ridiculous because with the latest state reform that was done, this now has become a regional responsibility instead of a federal one, less than half of the personal and money went to Flanders (as always with reforms) even though 80% of the COC files were in Flanders. So that's probably what caused the delays. I called the ministry many times and encountered the most demotived civil servants I ever met "can't help you, talk to the minsters, ...". I called them every day from three months into the process onwards and got so many false promises and lies that I ended up writing to the cabinet of the minister which is when it got resolved (1 day later, 1 week for paperwork).

I look at it from the bright side. I have one of the only 7 seat campers on the Belgian market now. The weight regulations are very extreme in Belgium (even more strict than the European because in this country some always believe own regulations are "better" , but by removing weight I got there.

Let me summarize how they calculate the number of places:
maximal gross weight, 3080kg on a 4motion - actual weight of vehicle (including 90% of water tank, gas tank if you have that, and diesel/petrol) - 10 x length(=5m on california) -75kg (if you need tow bar) = net possible load.
Then devide by 85 (75kg person + 10kg luggage) and round down.
I got my 4motion to 2410kg(liquids filled) by removing unneccessary stuff prior to weighing procedure (spare wheel, multiflex board, foldable seats, awning, ...) etc and by not going for tow bar. Then after weighing the car, I could put everything back on.
It's just a stupid rule. I understand campers should not be overloaded, but I wanted a flexible vehicle, either a 7 seater, for bringing kids and friends, or a camper, with middle seats removed and just 5 of us, including 3 children, a lot less than 75kg each. We'll never exceed 3080kg. That one time I was close was when using it as a van and going to Ikea.

So my advice: buy a camper (Although EU import process might be different). Don't convert to camper in Belgium.

Some do come up for sale in Belgium as well though. Keep looking..

 

[Blackbolt]

Did he have the same issues with the Certificate of Conformity?
(does he also speak English - I'm a Brit living in Brussels!)

Thanks!

Yes he speaks a bit English to.

 

[bxl_lad]

I...

So my advice: buy a camper (Although EU import process might be different). Don't convert to camper in Belgium.

Some do come up for sale in Belgium as well though. Keep looking..

Wow! Sounds complicated, but totally expected from the authorities here from my experience!
Its exactly though that the import process seems just as difficult and riddled with danger. I've seen a few T4 Cali's for sale from Belgians and they claim reason for sale is simply that they cannot get them registered correctly after they imported them... Not a good sign to someone trying to do the same...
But thanks for your reply

 

[bxl_lad]

Me again... Still on the mission to get the car imported (more will follow on that experience in the coming weeks!).
But now a new question... Belgian Insurance... The T4 Cali we're buying is from 2000. Every company i've called so far is only willing to offer me third party insurance due to the vehicles age. They won't offer any theft or fire insurance as the vehicle is older than 12 years (their maximum). So.. i can get a third party quote, and at a 'reasonable' rate, but even though we're paying 20k+ for this Cali, i can't get it insured against theft!
Anyone in Belgium offer any advice to achieving this?
Thanks ;-)

 

[bxl_lad]

Update (maybe of interest to the Belgian followers)...
So... The T4 is now imported and now registered in Belgium and most importantly has the status of 'AutoCaravan' (which allows the lower tax!). The process took just 1 day... (with a lot of homework beforehand to be sure we had all the bases covered...)
In the end it all came down to an email i got from the GOCA which they confirmed, based on some codes that were on the German registration papers, that indeed these codes would allow the vehicle to be registered in Belgium as an 'AutoCaravan'... (An exception that allows the California to be classed not as a car, but as a camper). Even armed with this confirmation, at the technical control it took three people and a fourth on the phone to another person, and half an hour of discussion to agree this (I get the feeling it was given begrudgingly in the end...). With this we went to the DIV for the plate and had again to explain everything. Seems this could have gone either way, so i'm not sure the next person would have the same luck?
Happy to share the details on the codes that should be on the German papers and GOCA contact, if anyone else thinking to import from Germany to Belgium...
Anyway, the T4 is now sitting with its Belgian plates and its correct tax code... Can now begin to enjoy the California life we've been looking forward to!

Cheers to all who contributed to the discussion...

 

[Hotel California]

Glad you sorted it out and now can enjoy the Cali!
Are you Belgian? or Englisch living in Belgium or other...just out of curiosity

 

[bxl_lad]

Glad you sorted it out and now can enjoy the Cali!
Are you Belgian? or Englisch living in Belgium or other...just out of curiosity

I'm a Brit living in Brussels

 

[Swissian]

I'm a Brit living in Brussels

Hotel how could you miss that the first time he said it

 

[Hotel California]

Ok , must have missed that....

 

[jeszua]

Dear all,

I've read all the topic here, as well as some additional information - as we're currently looking to buy T5 Beach and get it registered as camper in Belgium. Hardly any available in the country, found some more in Germany.

Assuming that I will have the kitchenette installed in the car (obligatory requirement of course, but can I buy any or does it have to be certified somehow?), I'd like to kindly ask for simple explanation (possibly in points):
1. what documents do I need (certificate of conformity for sure, but from whom will I receive it?) to support the claim, if the car was registered in Germany as passenger one?
2. where should I go and what should I do (only technical control, or some other earlier)?

I'll be grateful for any other advice on the matter.

Thank you in advance,
Joshua

---

Beste allemaal,

Ik heb het hele onderwerp hier gelezen, evenals wat aanvullende informatie, aangezien we momenteel van plan zijn om T5 Beach te kopen en deze als camper in België te laten registreren. Nauwelijks verkrijgbaar in het land, in Duitsland nog enkele gevonden.

Ervan uitgaande dat ik de kitchenette in de auto laat installeren (verplicht natuurlijk, maar kan ik er een kopen of moet deze op de een of andere manier worden gecertificeerd?), zou ik vriendelijk om een eenvoudige uitleg willen vragen (eventueel in punten):
1. Welke documenten heb ik nodig (zeker een conformiteitscertificaat, maar van wie krijg ik deze?) om de claim te staven, als de auto in Duitsland als passagier is geregistreerd?
2. waar moet ik heen en wat moet ik doen (alleen technische controle, of een andere eerder)?

Ik zal dankbaar zijn voor elk ander advies hierover.

Bij voorbaat dank,
Jozua

 

[bxl_lad]

Hi,
I can't point you to exactly the correct information related to registration and I'm not sure if a 'Beach' is (or can be?) technically classed as 'motorhome/camping car' in Belgium - maybe someone else will know the answer to that?

I know when we imported our T4 California from Germany to Belgium, that initially they (the authorities) didn't want to recognise it as motor-home and we had to contact someone at GOCA (https://www.gocavlaanderen.be/) to get this done properly. Might be worth a phone call?

This uncertainty might have been related to how T4 Cali's were initially built by VW and officially left the production line registered as a 'van', then Westfalia did the conversion. In Germany they were then recognised as camper-vans, but that wasn't an automatic recognition here in Belgium and if you don't pursue it then its possible they get registered as 'van'. Like i say, this might not be the case for T5's onward as they were leaving the VW factory as camper-vans.

But this classification is important and useful for example relating to road-tax calculation and also for things like the LEZ (low emission zone) in Brussels where you can have an exemption for Motor-homes:

The definition of motor-home text on the LEZ website (https://lez.brussels/mytax/en/exemptions) reads as follows:

"This is a special purpose vehicle of category M designed to be used as a dwelling, of which the liveable compartment includes at least the following equipment: seats and a table, bunks that can be created with or without a seat, a kitchenette, storage spaces. This equipment must be non-removable."

Not sure if a 'Beach' meets all these requirements (I've no experience of the Beach variant)?

So finally as well as Category 'M1' our Cali had on the paperwork 'Genre' SA (Autocaravan) - this is the important reference when wanting to register the vehicle as a motor-home/camper-van.



I would say if you have any doubts, then before you buy, contact the GOCA and ask if a T5 Beach is or can indeed be classed officially as motor-home, and if they say yes, ask for that in writing because when you go to register it you might need that proof - it wasn't straight-forward when we tried, but thankfully got it done in the end.

sorry I don't have more info, but Good luck!