Greetings from the USA

[Ntatejimmy1977]

My name is James and I am new to the forum. I am a long time owner of various VW vans starting with a 1965 splitty in college, a 1970 Bay window in Africa, a 1982 T3 in the Netherlands and a 1989 Syncro T3 Joker which I still own here in the USA.
Now that we are retired we want to buy a new T6.1 California and keep it in Europe for travel over there. As you may know one is required to be an EU resident to register a car there. There is a legal structure available in France whereby one sets up a company and then the company registers the car. It's called a société civile. So the first of many questions I will be asking folks here is: Have any of you heard about this? It appears to be legitimate, but I haven't yet paid the $$ to implement the process.
Beyond that I'm just learning about the various options available on the California. It appears that the right hand drive versions sold in the UK have slightly different options than those sold on the continent. I'd love to pick the brain of anyone who is knowledgeable about what is available on the continent.
Thanks for the opportunity to join this club and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[SFO]

Why not buy California in UK? No need to be a resident ..

 

[Ntatejimmy1977]

Why not buy California in UK? No need to be a resident ..

The vast majority of our travel will be on the continent, Turkey, Morocco, etc. so we definitely want a left hand drive model. And not to doubt you, but from what I could research it is not easy for a non resident to register a vehicle in the UK. If you have some solid information on that and can point out where I can learn more, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Corradobrit]

Check out the dealer in Gibralter. It might be easier to register the Cali there, get a LHD and be a LOT closer to those destinations you plan to visit. Store it in Spain. Worth further investigation IMO.

Oh and welcome to the forum. I ordered my first Cali sight unseen from Amsterdam while I was still living in DallasTX. 22 months later and I'm still waiting thanks to a cockup at the factory.

 

[bvddobb]

Indeed, it is not easy as a person to register a car in a country where you are not resident. And if you are a resident of e.g. Germany and have a car registered there, and you would be in e.g. The Netherlands with your car for more than 3 months, you would have to register it there, etc. A hassle.

I can imagine it would be easier to have a company register the car. The company is resident in a certain country, you, or your Bahama’s based holding company, are the sole share holder, and it is a company car, made available to you. You could drive it anywhere. A bit like you would be Avis and rent a car from your own company.

I think such constructions are possible in many countries, not just France. The Netherlands, Luxemburg, Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Liechtenstein, Malta, spring to mind, known as they are for their off-shoring possibilities.

The principle sounds simple, but there may be still be issues with taxes, insurance, etc.

 

[Peter84]

Get in touch with https://www.campers.eu/home/. Maybe it's possible to lease a VW Cali so they can take care of the registration, insurance and possibly storage as well.

 

[Ntatejimmy1977]

Check out the dealer in Gibralter. It might be easier to register the Cali there, get a LHD and be a LOT closer to those destinations you plan to visit. Store it in Spain. Worth further investigation IMO.

Oh and welcome to the forum. I ordered my first Cali sight unseen from Amsterdam while I was still living in DallasTX. 22 months later and I'm still waiting thanks to a cockup at the factory.

Curious which dealer you ordered your car from. I've spoken to the guys at My California in the Netherlands which seem to also do business as campers.eu, referenced by the poster Peter84. They seemed on the up and up, had some stock available for immediate purchase, price seemed competitive but said ordering one speced to perfection was at least a 2 year wait. Do you have the name of someone in Gibraltar? Any idea about how outrageous their VAT rate runs? Thanks.

 

[Ntatejimmy1977]

Indeed, it is not easy as a person to register a car in a country where you are not resident. And if you are a resident of e.g. Germany and have a car registered there, and you would be in e.g. The Netherlands with your car for more than 3 months, you would have to register it there, etc. A hassle.

I can imagine it would be easier to have a company register the car. The company is resident in a certain country, you, or your Bahama’s based holding company, are the sole share holder, and it is a company car, made available to you. You could drive it anywhere. A bit like you would be Avis and rent a car from your own company.

I think such constructions are possible in many countries, not just France. The Netherlands, Luxemburg, Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Liechtenstein, Malta, spring to mind, known as they are for their off-shoring possibilities.

The principle sounds simple, but there may be still be issues with taxes, insurance, etc.

These guys have made a business of doing this for North Americans & Aussies: https://francemotorhomesales.com/. If anyone has had any dealings with them I'd be curious how it turned out.

 

[Corradobrit]

Curious which dealer you ordered your car from. I've spoken to the guys at My California in the Netherlands which seem to also do business as campers.eu, referenced by the poster Peter84. They seemed on the up and up, had some stock available for immediate purchase, price seemed competitive but said ordering one speced to perfection was at least a 2 year wait. Do you have the name of someone in Gibraltar? Any idea about how outrageous their VAT rate runs? Thanks.

The dealer in Gibralter is Rock Autos. A couple of members here have ordered from them but they are locals.
I ordered my Coast from Campers.eu. A 2 years wait is probably fairly close to reality. At the end of the day its probably the time I'll have to have waited, give or take a month.

 

[Able78]

Hey James, I'm an American living in Belgium with my Cali registered to my business. I think it's just cheaper to rent a van for when you are going to use it, rather than paying all the required to register a business, have an address, register your van, pay the tax on your van, and the insurance on your van. Let alone all the other small things... for instance in Belgium every year you must take your van in for safety inspection... lots of hassle to just to have a van at your beck and call. As far as where to order as far as I understand your options on the continent are more varied and available and for resale its better... Hope this helps

 

[Ntatejimmy1977]

Hey James, I'm an American living in Belgium with my Cali registered to my business. I think it's just cheaper to rent a van for when you are going to use it, rather than paying all the required to register a business, have an address, register your van, pay the tax on your van, and the insurance on your van. Let alone all the other small things... for instance in Belgium every year you must take your van in for safety inspection... lots of hassle to just to have a van at your beck and call. As far as where to order as far as I understand your options on the continent are more varied and available and for resale its better... Hope this helps

I thought about the rental angle. But there are some real downsides to that. This year for example many places were booked up for up to a year in advance. We really want to travel when we want to. I also think most rental agencies would balk at allowing their vehicles to be taken to N Africa or The Stans of the old USSR.
Back in the day we drove a 1970 Bay from Capetown to Cairo and we really like doing that sort of travel rather than going to established campgrounds. According to the folks at the French agency France does not have yearly inspections like most other countries. My wife's sister lives in the Netherlands and we were going to register it in her name but they have a very hefty carbon tax of about $12,000, so that's why we're looking at the French system. And finally for the first time in our life we're not stressed for money so we figured, why not?
Thanks for your input. Do you happen to know of a good VW dealer to order a van from?

 

[Able78]

I thought about the rental angle. But there are some real downsides to that. This year for example many places were booked up for up to a year in advance. We really want to travel when we want to. I also think most rental agencies would balk at allowing their vehicles to be taken to N Africa or The Stans of the old USSR.
Back in the day we drove a 1970 Bay from Capetown to Cairo and we really like doing that sort of travel rather than going to established campgrounds. According to the folks at the French agency France does not have yearly inspections like most other countries. My wife's sister lives in the Netherlands and we were going to register it in her name but they have a very hefty carbon tax of about $12,000, so that's why we're looking at the French system. And finally for the first time in our life we're not stressed for money so we figured, why not?
Thanks for your input. Do you happen to know of a good VW dealer to order a van from?

Yea your are surely right that they wont let you go outta Europe with a rental. But I also wouldn't want to drive my 80,000 euro plus van there either, if I was planning a trip there I would go for a good example of a T3, T4 or T5 also just for parts availability and repair ease. As far as France not sure but you should make sure you're correct about the carbon tax of 12,000. In Belgium the California is considered a Camper "RV" in America and because of that special classification you are in a special tax bracket of 125 euro a year no mater what the engine size (In Belgium they tax you on the amount of pollution your engine makes). I suspect the same for Nederlands as they are a camping country. As far a good dealer the dealership I bought my from I wouldnt consider as "great" but just adequate :/ I think its just a matter of where you decide to buy then you try to find the most highly rated in that area. This place is in Nederlands and seems to be very knowledgeable https://www.mycalifornia.eu/ Also at least in Belgium not all dealers are authorized to sell the California...

 

[Corradobrit]

If I was looking now I would also consider the dealer in Luxembourg. Prices are amongst the lowest in Europe and they seem to deliver quicker than mycalifornia.eu who are not an authorized VW main dealer.

 

[kurienp]

But I also wouldn't want to drive my 80,000 euro plus van there either, if I was planning a trip there I would go for a good example of a T3, T4 or T5 also just for parts availability and repair ease.

no harm in taking an 80K euro van there. People take million dollar rigs there, but then, those rigs are in a class of their own.

Also, I agree, I would stick to anything a T6 and below ... as then repairability becomes easier.

 

[Able78]

If I was looking now I would also consider the dealer in Luxembourg. Prices are amongst the lowest in Europe and they seem to deliver quicker than mycalifornia.eu who are not an authorized VW main dealer.

True, but if he is not going to register the car in Lux then he has to navigate the whole transferring the car to where he is going to register it and that is not easy for someone from here let alone an american who is going to register the car with a company and yea they are not a VW dealer but sometime the best are not. If he really wants the best service then he needs to buy the car at "The Bullishow" https://bullishow.com/

 

[Corradobrit]

True, but if he is not going to register the car in Lux then he has to navigate the whole transferring the car to where he is going to register it and that is not easy for someone from here let alone an american who is going to register the car with a company and yea they are not a VW dealer but sometime the best are not. If he really wants the best service then he needs to buy the car at "The Bullishow" https://bullishow.com/

I never had much luck dealing with German and Austrian main dealers as a foreign national. Very unresponsive in my experience.

In my situation, Mycalifornia.eu was the clear choice, not least because they communicate in English. But to be told upfront the wait time is 24 months will be hard to swallow. I was told the expected lead time when I ordered in Nov 2020 was 10 months, which worked out perfectly as I wasn't expecting to be in Europe for another 9 months at that time. Then the delays and the manufacture issue happened but since I was already into the process for 18 months, accepting of additional delays is made easier knowing I'm just that little bit closer to reaching the dream.

 

[Able78]

I never had much luck dealing with German and Austrian main dealers as a foreign national. Very unresponsive in my experience.

In my situation, Mycalifornia.eu was the clear choice, not least because they communicate in English. But to be told upfront the wait time is 24 months will be hard to swallow. I was told the expected lead time when I ordered in Nov 2020 was 10 months, which worked out perfectly as I wasn't expecting to be in Europe for another 9 months at that time. Then the delays and the manufacture issue happened but since I was already into the process for 18 months, accepting of additional delays is made easier knowing I'm just that little bit closer to reaching the dream.

Yes Belgium and Holland are the places to buy if you are only doing English not only are they proficient but also very open to doing the whole process in it.

 

[Peter84]

Wait time can be significantly reduced is you choose for a stock model, there are some well equipped vehicles readily available.

 

[Corradobrit]

Another interesting tidbit is that VW are expecting to continue producing well into 2024/5 if they are taking orders with a 24 month lead time. The T6.1 is going to be a really long run.

The next gen Ford/VW collab has gone really quiet.

 

[pcevanrulo]

e. As far as France not sure but you should make sure you're correct about the carbon tax of 12,000. In Belgium the California is considered a Camper "RV" in America and because of that special classification you are in a special tax bracket of 125 euro a year no mater what the engine size (In Belgium they tax you on the amount of pollution your engine makes). I suspect the same for Nederlands as they are a camping country.

The roadtax in The NL is for RV's only 25% of what it would cost for the same Cali when is isn't registered as a RV (like a Multivan or Caravelle). Depending on your level of emissions there is a surplus, but it is not that expensive.
However in The NL we pay an extra tax, called ' BPM' for our vehicles, which used to be a percentage of the listed price before VAT and is now calculated on the listed price and per gramm of CO2. Depending on the age, emissions and level of accessoires, it's easily somewhere between 10k-16k Euro! on a new Cali

 

[Ntatejimmy1977]

Thanks to all of you for your responses, you've given me a number of things to consider. Yes, pcvanrulo it is that BPM that is +10k euros that killed my plan to register the van with my sister in law in the Netherlands. That's what we did when we bought a used T3 in 1997, but times have changed.

I'm not really worried about traveling in the non western European world, we've done it a number of times, in fact we'll be spending the winter in Central America in our T3 syncro which, over here, is worth about $65,000.

I am curious if anyone has contact information on the dealer in Luxembourg.
Again thanks and keep those suggestions coming.

 

[Corradobrit]

Thanks to all of you for your responses, you've given me a number of things to consider. Yes, pcvanrulo it is that BPM that is +10k euros that killed my plan to register the van with my sister in law in the Netherlands. That's what we did when we bought a used T3 in 1997, but times have changed.

I'm not really worried about traveling in the non western European world, we've done it a number of times, in fact we'll be spending the winter in Central America in our T3 syncro which, over here, is worth about $65,000.

I am curious if anyone has contact information on the dealer in Luxembourg.
Again thanks and keep those suggestions coming.

+campermanluxembourg

 

[Dell]

Hi there,
I am from Gibraltar, and I can fill you in on the ins and out of buy a camper van and owning one in Gibraltar.
From experience and I tried Netherlands, Germany Gibraltar and Spain. I can Safely say Spain and a personal import into Gib is the best bet for you. My California.eu was fantastic help but their vehicles come with a 1500km reading on the clock as they are not VW official dealers, however they do hold stock readily available but they may not fill in with you choice of extras. Germany was ok but I found more expensive and Gibraltar was sightly less, but in Spain they have offers and although mine has taken 23 months due to COVID, semi conductors shortages and finally the war. I have a top spec ocean and have saved almost 15 thousand pounds.
Pm me and I can give you further details.

 

[Ntatejimmy1977]

Hi there,
I am from Gibraltar, and I can fill you in on the ins and out of buy a camper van and owning one in Gibraltar.
From experience and I tried Netherlands, Germany Gibraltar and Spain. I can Safely say Spain and a personal import into Gib is the best bet for you. My California.eu was fantastic help but their vehicles come with a 1500km reading on the clock as they are not VW official dealers, however they do hold stock readily available but they may not fill in with you choice of extras. Germany was ok but I found more expensive and Gibraltar was sightly less, but in Spain they have offers and although mine has taken 23 months due to COVID, semi conductors shortages and finally the war. I have a top spec ocean and have saved almost 15 thousand pounds.
Pm me and I can give you further details.

Setting up my VIP membership now so I can pm you.

 

[Ntatejimmy1977]

True, but if he is not going to register the car in Lux then he has to navigate the whole transferring the car to where he is going to register it and that is not easy for someone from here let alone an american who is going to register the car with a company and yea they are not a VW dealer but sometime the best are not. If he really wants the best service then he needs to buy the car at "The Bullishow" https://bullishow.com/

Thanks for the tip of "bullishow." Unfortunately they seem to have almost exclusively Beach models for sale. Does this mean that it's going to be tough in the next few months to find an Ocean or even Coast model?