Heat Immediately/Heat Continuously - Finally it makes sense!

[sidepod]

Ok First off let me be clear - I FULLY understand the difference between these two options and what each one does.

What I've failed to grasp before now it the WHY? This is referring to T6.1

It's a perfectly simple request, Turn on the heating. Why on earth does it need two similar functions to carry it out?

So, a bit of background involving standard build specs that VW use for different geographical locations.
VW have a standard build spec for Nordic/Scandinavian countries and another one for the rest of Europe or more Southerly countries.

Fitted to our vans are two diesel heaters. One heats air for the living area the other heats the water in the engine coolant circuit. Nothing new here, we all know the pain involved in trying to figure out what was actually being ordered via the configurator.

Forgetting the air heater, the water heater has two basic switch on conditions, engine running and ambient temperature <5 degC.
We have no control over this, it's fully automated.
This is the spec VW use for Southern Europe. The heater has a specific firmware installed and that's it.

For Nordic/Scandinavian spec vehicles this water heater behaves differently. The reason being much colder temperatures which, in extreme cases, obviously affects the ability of the vehicle to start.
With Nordic spec the heater is controlled by a remote control fob (similar to the one we have for the air heater), the van has a receiver installed and the heater unit runs a different firmware version.
The important difference here is that the heater can be started without the engine running. Once the water temp in the coolant circuit reaches a predetermined level the heater control unit fires up the blower fan and warm air is allowed to circulate around the cabin via the dash vents.

I've been looking into how to convert from a Southern Europe spec to the Nordic spec. This has been a rabbit hole involving both English and German forums.
I think I've finally got to the bottom of it.
Briefly, this requires a remote control receiver fitting and wiring in. Re-coding quite a lot of stuff and re-flashing the firmware in the heater control unit.
None of this is too difficult but what's important here is that, reading through a lot of posts by knowledgeable Germans, I've finally understood why we have Heat Immediately and Heat Continuously.

It seems that when coding the water heater to accept the new remote control receiver, part of the job re configures the overhead control screen and the main dash screen. The end result being, you get graphics that show the coolant heater and control/timing options for the coolant heater on the dash screen under the CAR heading apparently.
Further more, the Heat Immediately option disappears from the over head screen when switching on the air heater, instead Heat Immediately appears on the dash screen.
This now makes a lot more sense and explains why there is a 120min time limit on Heat Immediately. Apparently heating engine coolant from -25 can take up to 40 mins. Also the 120min limit will protect the starter battery from running down too far. I believe Nordic spec vans come with a bigger starter battery also.

If there is anyone out there with what they believe to be a Nordic spec van, it would be good to get your input on this and confirm all/some of the above.
It'll need a VCDS scan to identify what firmware version is installed in the coolant heater.

If anyone is interested in reading 30+ pages of Germans bangin on about firmware and coding, then I'll post the forum link here.

 

[vbk1975]

Ok First off let me be clear - I FULLY understand the difference between these two options and what each one does.

What I've failed to grasp before now it the WHY? This is referring to T6.1

It's a perfectly simple request, Turn on the heating. Why on earth does it need two similar functions to carry it out?

So, a bit of background involving standard build specs that VW use for different geographical locations.
VW have a standard build spec for Nordic/Scandinavian countries and another one for the rest of Europe or more Southerly countries.

Fitted to our vans are two diesel heaters. One heats air for the living area the other heats the water in the engine coolant circuit. Nothing new here, we all know the pain involved in trying to figure out what was actually being ordered via the configurator.

Forgetting the air heater, the water heater has two basic switch on conditions, engine running and ambient temperature <5 degC.
We have no control over this, it's fully automated.
This is the spec VW use for Southern Europe. The heater has a specific firmware installed and that's it.

For Nordic/Scandinavian spec vehicles this water heater behaves differently. The reason being much colder temperatures which, in extreme cases, obviously affects the ability of the vehicle to start.
With Nordic spec the heater is controlled by a remote control fob (similar to the one we have for the air heater), the van has a receiver installed and the heater unit runs a different firmware version.
The important difference here is that the heater can be started without the engine running. Once the water temp in the coolant circuit reaches a predetermined level the heater control unit fires up the blower fan and warm air is allowed to circulate around the cabin via the dash vents.

I've been looking into how to convert from a Southern Europe spec to the Nordic spec. This has been a rabbit hole involving both English and German forums.
I think I've finally got to the bottom of it.
Briefly, this requires a remote control receiver fitting and wiring in. Re-coding quite a lot of stuff and re-flashing the firmware in the heater control unit.
None of this is too difficult but what's important here is that, reading through a lot of posts by knowledgeable Germans, I've finally understood why we have Heat Immediately and Heat Continuously.

It seems that when coding the water heater to accept the new remote control receiver, part of the job re configures the overhead control screen and the main dash screen. The end result being, you get graphics that show the coolant heater and control/timing options for the coolant heater on the dash screen under the CAR heading apparently.
Further more, the Heat Immediately option disappears from the over head screen when switching on the air heater, instead Heat Immediately appears on the dash screen.
This now makes a lot more sense and explains why there is a 120min time limit on Heat Immediately. Apparently heating engine coolant from -25 can take up to 40 mins. Also the 120min limit will protect the starter battery from running down too far. I believe Nordic spec vans come with a bigger starter battery also.

If there is anyone out there with what they believe to be a Nordic spec van, it would be good to get your input on this and confirm all/some of the above.
It'll need a VCDS scan to identify what firmware version is installed in the coolant heater.

If anyone is interested in reading 30+ pages of Germans bangin on about firmware and coding, then I'll post the forum link here.

Is there also mention of an extra mixing valve on the Nordic spec vans, my understanding was that the Coolant heater was used to heat the engine coolant first and then when up to temperature the heater matrix circuit was then heated for the cabin and then when up to temp this adjusted to direct where extra heater output as required. When i looked into it, no one in the UK forums had added this valve in.

Also I think you can adjust the temp that the coolant heater kicks in, by changing one of the heater adaption values (from memory factory setting is 5c or below), but this is only with engine running, so not an answer to making it a pre-heat.

 

[Black Forest]

T6.1 here. This would be great to get working. I'm in southern Germany and my old Caddy had a remote controlled engine Erbespacher and it was brilliant. Better IMHO than 30mins of heat continuously air which gets pulled out of the van when you start the engine which takes a few mins to get warm.

Hit the remote, warm the engine - warm air through the vents immediately - perfect.
Also, if the web app could start the heat continuously function it would be great too (and actually a function worth paying for instead of just remote lock and beep the horn). Warm van after a cold wet mountain day, perfect.

 

[sidepod]

T6.1 here. This would be great to get working. I'm in southern Germany and my old Caddy had a remote controlled engine Erbespacher and it was brilliant. Better IMHO than 30mins of heat continuously air which gets pulled out of the van when you start the engine which takes a few mins to get warm.

Hit the remote, warm the engine - warm air through the vents immediately - perfect.
Also, if the web app could start the heat continuously function it would be great too (and actually a function worth paying for instead of just remote lock and beep the horn). Warm van after a cold wet mountain day, perfect.

I’ll post the link to the German thread and highlight two guys on there who will do the job for you. I think one of them is in the Munich area.

Maybe you could contact them and discuss further in case I’ve missed something?

 

[sidepod]

Is there also mention of an extra mixing valve on the Nordic spec vans, my understanding was that the Coolant heater was used to heat the engine coolant first and then when up to temperature the heater matrix circuit was then heated for the cabin and then when up to temp this adjusted to direct where extra heater output as required. When i looked into it, no one in the UK forums had added this valve in.

Also I think you can adjust the temp that the coolant heater kicks in, by changing one of the heater adaption values (from memory factory setting is 5c or below), but this is only with engine running, so not an answer to making it a pre-heat.

Yes I spotted this coolant valve. I think it’s this , N279?

I checked in VCDS and it said Not Installed. I’m not 100% sure this means it’s physically not installed or simply the tick box for coding.
I’ll have a dig around and see if I can find it under the bonnet.

 

[sidepod]

T6.1 here. This would be great to get working. I'm in southern Germany and my old Caddy had a remote controlled engine Erbespacher and it was brilliant. Better IMHO than 30mins of heat continuously air which gets pulled out of the van when you start the engine which takes a few mins to get warm.

Hit the remote, warm the engine - warm air through the vents immediately - perfect.
Also, if the web app could start the heat continuously function it would be great too (and actually a function worth paying for instead of just remote lock and beep the horn). Warm van after a cold wet mountain day, perfect.

Here’s the link and the two guys who seem to be all over this.

T6.1 - Zuheizer flashen

Ich hab gestern meinen Zuheizer von @Fite per Remote zur Warmwasserstandheizung umflashen lassen, es hat alles wie hier Beschrieben problemlos funktioniert.

tx-board.de

 

[sidepod]

So this I believe is the additional kit that needs installing before flashing the heater and coding.
It’s only a power/ground plus a single wire Linbus, all done under the left hand seat.

Pardon our interruption...

 

[sidepod]

This doesn’t cover the coding requirement specifically for the California but it’s the basics of what’s needed, that’s where the German guys can help.

 

[vbk1975]

Yes I spotted this coolant valve. I think it’s this , N279?

I checked in VCDS and it said Not Installed. I’m not 100% sure this means it’s physically not installed or simply the tick box for coding.
I’ll have a dig around and see if I can find it under the bonnet.

View attachment 142680

I don't believe it is installed on non Cold Climate cars, i think for mild markets not having the mixing valve isn't a big deal and it is there for extreme temperatures ensuring that the maximum amount of heat goes into the engine first prior to starting and then warming the cabin. So the setting is probably enabling diagnostics and the behaviour.

 

[Black Forest]

So this I believe is the additional kit that needs installing before flashing the heater and coding.
It’s only a power/ground plus a single wire Linbus, all done under the left hand seat.

Pardon our interruption...

I have the "plipper" fob so maybe it's a coding thing. I'll go back and read it all..... Munich is 5hrs or so away from me.

 

[sidepod]

I have the "plipper" fob so maybe it's a coding thing. I'll go back and read it all..... Munich is 5hrs or so away from me.

yeah that's a good point. I have a fob for the air heater. I assume it's an easy job to un-pair it and re-pair it to the new remote receiver? I think this is achievable without coding.

 

[hlobban]

Have you found anyone selling a kit for this Mod yet? I assume not… probably a bit technical for the average Cali Owner.

 

[vbk1975]

Have you found anyone selling a kit for this Mod yet? I assume not… probably a bit technical for the average Cali Owner.

Kufatec sell a kit, which includes the dongle to allow the software to be updated, but it is 700Eur + Shipping

 

[sidepod]

Have you found anyone selling a kit for this Mod yet? I assume not… probably a bit technical for the average Cali Owner.

NEW OEM Webasto Heater Telestart STH 3Q0963513 kit AUDI remote VW Seat Skoda | eBay UK

Part number: 3Q0963513 / 4N0963511B | Send your vehicle's VIN, and we will check compatibility!.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[sidepod]

if you watch the vid in pot #8, in the description there are links to everything you need.

There is a question mark over whether the existing receiver currently used for our air heaters can be re-purposed? I comes down to the Linbus output signal to command the heater ON from the receiver.

 

[sidepod]

if you watch the vid in pot #8, in the description there are links to everything you need.

There is a question mark over whether the existing receiver, currently used for our air heaters, can be re-purposed? It comes down to the Linbus output signal to command the heater ON from the receiver.
I've not had chance to find it on the van and check the part number against the one in the kit. I believe it's located somewhere up in the footwell under the dash. Not sure which side.

 

[sidepod]

Here's a VCDS screen shot of the air heater and it's slave remote control receiver as fitted to our vans.
You can see the part number for the remote is 5WA 963 513 which is virtually the same number as the part in the ebay kit. Its a reasonable bet it'll work.

 

[hlobban]

Would be interesting to find out if it does work with the existing receiver or not!

It’s certainly a good project however, not sure if I converted mine, how many times I would use it in anger.

Maybe only once a twice a year when using the Cali in Sub-Zero temps. The “juice is worth the squeeze” probably only if you move your southern Europe Cali to colder climates on a permanent basis.

Even if you are planing a longer stint on a “Nordic” tour then a Cali might not be correct vehicle anyway due to the difficulty in insulating it once the roof is up.

 

[sidepod]

Would be interesting to find out if it does work with the existing receiver or not!

It’s certainly a good project however, not sure if I converted mine, how many times I would use it in anger.

Maybe only once a twice a year when using the Cali in Sub-Zero temps. The “juice is worth the squeeze” probably only if you move your southern Europe Cali to colder climates on a permanent basis.

Even if you are planing a longer stint on a “Nordic” tour then a Cali might not be correct vehicle anyway due to the difficulty in insulating it once the roof is up.

I get that. For me it just seems daft to have the kit installed and it rarely get used.
I would use it at any temp below 10deg.

It just seems to make more sense to have it configured correctly.

 

[sidepod]

Slight update to this after more digging, I believe now that when the water heater is reflashed, our overhead control screen will differentiate between water heater (Heat Immediately) and air heater (Heat Continuously) which makes perfect sense.
I’m not sure if the additional remote control unit is required for the water heater or if it’s just a nice to have.

More research.

Does anyone know if the VW Connect/Sim card thing allows remote diagnostics. This is news to me but it makes sense.

 

[vbk1975]

Slight update to this after more digging, I believe now that when the water heater is reflashed, our overhead control screen will differentiate between water heater (Heat Immediately) and air heater (Heat Continuously) which makes perfect sense.
I’m not sure if the additional remote control unit is required for the water heater or if it’s just a nice to have.

More research.

Does anyone know if the VW Connect/Sim card thing allows remote diagnostics. This is news to me but it makes sense.

https://consent.vwgroup.io/consent/v1/texts/weconnect/gb/en/dataprivacy/latest/pdf

Section 33, of consent doc above would suggest yes it some versions of VW Connect can do remote diagnostics and accessed by customer, but looks like this is latest cars, not sure how far back.

 

[sidepod]

OK, today's update on this after further digging.

I spoke with a very helpful German who insists there is no need to fit an additional remote control unit for the water heater.
This looks to be true according to the wiring schemes post 2019. It seems only one remote unit is fitted (R64) and the same linbus signal feeds both water and air heaters, so, once the water heater is flashed either, both air and water heaters will run on remote or the remote signal will then operate only the water heater?

At the moment my remote only initiates Heat Immediately. Some people insist the remote starts the air heater in whatever the last mode used was?

Anyway, I've ordered a dongle from the helpful German who, once it arrives, can remote into the van via my lappy and flash the heater.


@Black Forest , this would save you a 5 hour trip.