How much?

[sidepod]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T4-CALIFOR ... 19d678d5d4

Beautiful but.....that's well into early T5 money.

 

[beardie]

I like the
"IN MY OPINION BETTER THAN ANY AFTER MARKET CONVERSION AND MUCH BETTER VALUE THAN A T5 CALIFORNIA WHICH COSTS AROUND £43,000"

I don't think Mr Reality has come to visit yet. His price is up at dealer with warranty sticker price

Look at the listing photos and you can see a T5 behind it! Which may be what he's bought to replace the T4???

 

[James]

T4's are becoming expensive - especially the last of the run German imports - especially German Generation or Event Editions.

it's silly money, but if people pay it, that is what they are worth. I notice there is a company or two importing these.

To be honest, you'll find plenty on German E Bay, both Campers and Multivans and they are seriously well equipped. If your heart is set on the best of a T4, import it yourself.

German T4's are nice but for me, not 24k nice. They are simply not classic enough as lovely as they are.

Check this out

http://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-T4-California ... 2ec32d61fc

It seems if this van was imported to the UK you'd see it for 24/25k. Also the rarer and desirable 150bhp version.

Accept a few scuffs and you could import this.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/T4-Multivan-Gene ... 19d68087b7

This has the full VW era climtronic, heated seats, ESP and parking heater (again very desirable).

James

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

I actually dont think that is too unrealistic. T4's are very popular at the moment, with nice panel vans fetching £5k plus, and they are rising!!!

Good luck to the man I say

 

[James]

I actually dont think that is too unrealistic. T4's are very popular at the moment, with nice panel vans fetching £5k plus, and they are rising!!!

Good luck to the man I say

i'd agree and I know one sold recently for 24k - as you know, it's that knock on effect, T3/T25's become expensive and people move on to the next van, in this case the T4.

If my heart was set on one, I just wouldn't pay the UK prices, if I could, I'd jut avoid the middle man (person!) and buy in Germany, that might be more hassle but it's not that difficult to import and register.

German T4's like the above are very very well equipped, even by today's standards, okay it may not be the most up to date equipment but heated seats are heated seats lol.

I have to be honest, in my fantasy Chris Evans like garage their is an immaculate well equipped T4 Multivan (with xenons of course!).



James

 

[sidepod]

....so I'll just keep mine until it's worth the price of a new Cali.

 

[James]

....so I'll just keep mine until it's worth the price of a new Cali.

lol well there is that...

T4's will rise but there are certain vehicles that remain desirable such those German Imports but in theory, yes, lol.

A VW Camper will always be a VW Camper.

My plan should the Beach go the way of Renault Wind, is jut to hang onto it until prices rise



On a more serious note the problem for T4's is T5's. Should T4's keep rising in price, there will be eventually a stage where they start to crossover with California prices, assuming they go up, and eventually as more Cali's appear, their price goes down. It'll be interesting to see what happens there.

James

 

[sidepod]

The other thing to bear in mind about T4's is that VW didn't make that many. I can't recall but I did read somewhere that the production run of T4's was tiny relative to the T5.

This obviously had a knock on effect to the Cali. I wonder how many Westfalia actually made?

There doesn't seem to be any shortage of Westy T4's. Ebay always comes up with a few. Generally £12k should get you a good one if you do your research. That's a lot of van for the money considering it's exactly the same layout as the T5.

S.

 

[2into1]

Really interesting debate. I followed the first link in Custard's link (the blue westy). I'm not sure its so cheap vs the UK prices:
The blue one in Germany has been resprayed, has 77k miles and is more than £18,500 by the time you've bought the euros. You the cost of a flight, a drive / ferry back and some paperwork. You may get there and decide its not as good as it looks (and you've wasted several hundred pounds).

The Silver one at £24.5k (he is inviting offers) is only 37k miles. I'm not saying which is best value but I see it closer than Custard.

I followed the German market for a few weeks when I bought bt T4 West Exclusive (Smurf). I didn't see much to tempt me (price wise) over there. There was obviously a better choice, but they weren't cheap. There was a 03, 150hp version of mine on mobi.de last week at 31,000 Euro's!!!, and it has gone now (else I would have posted the link).

This ^ is just the debate between UK vs Germany. The cost of T4s vs T5 Calis is another topic but can only help sustain the high residuals on current Calis

 

[sidepod]

When we bought ours the dealer had a facelift version ( bull nose/ turbo) in stock. It was a few years younger but £6k more. I couldn't bring myself to dig that deep for essentially the same van.

I think, compared to type 25 and bay prices the T4 is an absolute steal.

I'm still going to buy a new T5 though :cool

S.

 

[James]

I don't think Germany offers a better price than the Uk, however if companies are going to import the very high spec Event and Generation models and charge you accordingly, if that was the model i wanted, I'd rather do it myself.

In general terms, there isn't really any advantage of importing from Germany. For me, there are certain T4 models that interest me, and they tend to be the ones that UK either gots in small numbers or with a much reduced kit level or not at all. For example should I wish to pursue my silly love of Multivans then I probably would need to import from Germany. It's not just that there were only a small number built in RHD, it's that there tends to be a culture within classic Veedubs of, hey i can do better than VW, and it all goes wrong...

When I first had my T25/Vanagon - T4 prices were cheap and appeared good value, then T25's got expensive and T4's went up as people clamoured to buy them.

Aside from the German markets, I do agree a 10 - 12 T4 camper is good value.






James

 

[2into1]

There is any interesting comparison van popped up on Autotrader, http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...h/true/radius/1500/postcode/sk146bb?logcode=p
Its a 2006 174hp LHD Cali in a good colour and just 34k miles at £25900.
Based on the van which started this thread (03, 37k miles asking £24500), it is more or less indicating that the last Westy's are 'fetching' as much as the first t5 Cali's. I say 'fetching' as I don't think the T4 sold (in fact it didn't appear to get a bid at the starting price of £20k).

If T4's have been moving upwards, it seems they've gone as far as they are likely to.
I don't think anyone is suggesting a late T4 is ever going to fetch more than a early T5 are they?

 

[James]

There is any interesting comparison van popped up on Autotrader, http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...h/true/radius/1500/postcode/sk146bb?logcode=p
Its a 2006 174hp LHD Cali in a good colour and just 34k miles at £25900.
Based on the van which started this thread (03, 37k miles asking £24500), it is more or less indicating that the last Westy's are 'fetching' as much as the first t5 Cali's. I say 'fetching' as I don't think the T4 sold (in fact it didn't appear to get a bid at the starting price of £20k).

If T4's have been moving upwards, it seems they've gone as far as they are likely to.
I don't think anyone is suggesting a late T4 is ever going to fetch more than a early T5 are they?

What's interesting is that pre facelift LHD Cali's have far more kit than UK prefacelifts. I'd take the T5 everytime - for the T4 doesn't warrant enough classic or cool status for me to drop down a generation. It's a great van but the T5 was a move forward and as such it would be the one.

I also think if you're smart you'd realise that LHD offers great value for money and if your like me, a bit vain, something a bit more unique

I am hoping moreLHD Cali's will become available because they do offer a lot of van for the money. The reason the T4's have become expensive is because people know about them and therefore they pay what I consider silly money and the prices go up.

I think if you're clever, a pre facelift LHD T5 Cali is a hidden gem and hopefully no one will realise that there is a large stock of these and that they could be imported. You get a wealth of kit that wasn't on UK vans including superior sat nav, climate control, steering wheel controls and even Xenons.

I'd buy the T5 and enjoy feeling smug.

James

 

[sidepod]

I am hoping moreLHD Cali's will become available because they do offer a lot of van for the money. The reason the T4's have become expensive is because people know about them and therefore they pay what I consider silly money and the prices go up.

I think if you're clever, a pre facelift LHD T5 Cali is a hidden gem and hopefully no one will realise that there is a large stock of these and that they could be imported. You get a wealth of kit that wasn't on UK vans including superior sat nav, climate control, steering wheel controls and even Xenons.

I'd buy the T5 and enjoy feeling smug.

James

That's ok, lets keep it to ourselves, oh and the internet ! :laugh2

I agree with the early "T5 beats late T4" thing if only for the driving experience. Once pitched up, the T5 does nothing more than the T4 in fact, and I know this because I've measure it, the T5 actually has less floor area due to it's deeper bench seat. Not necessarily a problem but our faithful lab sleeps in front of the bench seat (bed deployed) underneath the overhang. He loves it in there. Sadly the T5 has much less overhang with the bed deployed and thus less room for him.
The T5 is also better due to the upper bed base pivoting from the rear of the van not from half way like the T4.

I'm not sure the T4 will ever become an uber-cool dub like the previous generations, it just doesn't seem to have the quirky old school feel to it. Perhaps I'm wrong. Still a great van though.

S.

 

[James]

I am hoping moreLHD Cali's will become available because they do offer a lot of van for the money. The reason the T4's have become expensive is because people know about them and therefore they pay what I consider silly money and the prices go up.

I think if you're clever, a pre facelift LHD T5 Cali is a hidden gem and hopefully no one will realise that there is a large stock of these and that they could be imported. You get a wealth of kit that wasn't on UK vans including superior sat nav, climate control, steering wheel controls and even Xenons.

I'd buy the T5 and enjoy feeling smug.

James

That's ok, lets keep it to ourselves, oh and the internet ! :laugh2

I agree with the early "T5 beats late T4" thing if only for the driving experience. Once pitched up, the T5 does nothing more than the T4 in fact, and I know this because I've measure it, the T5 actually has less floor area due to it's deeper bench seat. Not necessarily a problem but our faithful lab sleeps in front of the bench seat (bed deployed) underneath the overhang. He loves it in there. Sadly the T5 has much less overhang with the bed deployed and thus less room for him.
The T5 is also better due to the upper bed base pivoting from the rear of the van not from half way like the T4.

I'm not sure the T4 will ever become an uber-cool dub like the previous generations, it just doesn't seem to have the quirky old school feel to it. Perhaps I'm wrong. Still a great van though.

S.

To me the only true classic vehicle is the Splitty - it's an iconic vehicle.

Everything else is personal choice, those that say their T2 bay is more classic than your T4 are talking nonsense.

Older VW'a have become uber cool but that has happened over time. The VW snobbery that can exist is best ignored.

The T4 was/is a great van, at its launch it was a big leap forward over the T3.




James

 

[ROB]

I wanted to buy a T4 but as only LHD i had to spend more cash for a used T5 Cali,

 

[Caligrycho]

T4 Forever - Personalized and Raw as Few!!

 

[Caligrycho]

A picture of personalized California T4 Extreme :crazy
Have a safe way.. Caligrycho - Denmark

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

While prices of T4 based Westies seem to be dropping at the moment (feels like a lot being imported at the mo - result of the Umwelt Zones?), T3's seem to be on the up...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-...rcooled-in-the-world/1034381246#photo-content

 

[sidepod]

Wow, she's a peach! You've really got to want one to spent that amount!

I wonder what a T4 in similar condition would fetch?
I can feel several lost hours on the net coming on? :crazy

Having said that, vehicles, of any type, cars,vans etc in my opinion are too cosmetic and fragile for what they get used for. If you owned a "minter" you'd be terrified of getting it marked! Our bus is clean but by no means A1. It has it's scars and marks but that's cool. It gets used but not abused.

S.

 

[James]

While prices of T4 based Westies seem to be dropping at the moment (feels like a lot being imported at the mo - result of the Umwelt Zones?), T3's seem to be on the up...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-...rcooled-in-the-world/1034381246#photo-content

I am not really sure about that. There's always been markers with T3's.

Multivans - no more than 8k - you'll see them for more but 8k is generally your expected amount. Even the South African Vans with the Audi engines which are fantastic don't really exceed.

Wests always fetch a certain price - Atlantics a bit more but again they generally level out probably around 10k. Atlantics are a different kettle of fish and I've seen those go for close to 20.

The problem is unless you love T3's or you want the last of the air-cooled Vans you may as well buy a T4.

I've owned a T3 and a rare one but it commanded no more money. I would have taken a T4 for everyday use.

the van in the advert is a dry state import i take it - yes, i owned one of those but that is silly money.

Go on American Ebay - there will be a fair few for sale.

James

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Most I've seen an Atalantic advertised for was 36,000 Euro, but it was an immaculate syncro. It sold, although I don't know what for.

However, for really silly prices, Go Westy in the US have some interesting T3 Syncros....

http://www.gowesty.com/vehicle_details.php?id=1634

They're brilliant things for sure, but it's getting silly out there.

 

[sidepod]

Good site Dan.

Some nice looking T4's on there. Excuse my ignorance but is the US version the "Atlantic"?

Interior is quite a bit different !

S.

 

[Retiredron]

Dont think so S, check out http://www.vw-t3-atlantic.de

Ron.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Atlantic was the top of the line Westy T3 camper and fully winterised.

Interestingly, the California was bottom of the range as it was aimed at warmer climes, so as standard it had no heater or double glazing. Many of them have these things, but because they were added options I think.

The Jokers sat in the middle, but the Cali and the Atlantic weren't introduced until quite late in the T3 production run. '88 maybe?