How toxic is your Cali?

[Stoneybroke]

With much talk about the pros and cons of diesel Vs petrol, low emission zones, extra charges - whether VED or 'congestion' charges, I came across this article on the BBC website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

This compares some real world testing of an ageing VW petrol Golf and a Euro 4 Skoda - the discussion which follows is very interesting, with independent real-world tests showing that a new Euro 6 Qashqai N-Connecta DCI CVT is far dirtier than the Euro 4 Skoda (NOx), and that the old petrol is dirtier than the Skoda, but cleaner than the Quahqai!

So what about the Cali's?

Well the real-world independent tester was Emissions Analyticals and they have tested Transporters, including a 2012 California http://equaindex.com/equa-lcv-index/

Their information appears to feed in to another website that provides estimated real-world figures for most vehicles, including California diesel and petrol editions.
http://www.nextgreencar.com/new-car-search/

For those tempted by the petrol, the figures are not clear cut - yes, less NOx at the tailpipe but more CO2 and at a higher cost per mile with significantly lower MPG.

Worth a read.

 

[Ocean Spirit]

I'm probably a bit insensitive to all this.
The powers that be have changed their minds more than once, I want the vehicle that I want and no matter how good or bad I feel about it's emissions or the emissions of the other vehicles around me there is absolutely nothing I can do about it, the accuracy of the tests, the test conditions etc, the way they tax me for my sins so I tend to let it wash over my head.
If the public could trust what we are told by the powers that be and subsequent taxing and incentives were consistent with it, it would be a different matter altogether and I'd buy in. I bought a diesel on the back of their recommendations and have been hammered ever since.

 

[bigmac77]

You've got to decide whether you prefer Polar bears or people. If it's the bears buy the diesel if it's people the petrol.

 

[Ocean Spirit]

So if I buy petrol Kim Jong-un and Trump will cease their antics and no more earth quakes, wild fires or epidemics will will take us out?
Sorry, my humour shows a lack of taste there but a more serious point behind it is that I also drink from plastic bottles and buy lots of things in plastic wrapping. Despite disposing of them responsibly whales aren't enjoying their diet and dying.
Having the right impact on environment, ecological balance and global warming for example requires an awful lot more than trying to abide by the mixed messages we get rammed down our throats by half hearted attempts to encourage us when theres a bob or two to be made.
It's not that I don't care.

When every believes the world is not ours to ruin, we are merely borrowing it from our Great Grand Children we might get somewhere.

 

[Cwoods1405]

I agree with the above sentiments. Far more issues to worry about than me doing a few thousand miles in the van every year. As for the BBC they are a bunch of sensationalist journos like the rest of the media. Their bias knows no bounds!

 

[Stoneybroke]

I

I agree with the above sentiments. Far more issues to worry about than me doing a few thousand miles in the van every year. As for the BBC they are a bunch of sensationalist journos like the rest of the media. Their bias knows no bounds!

I thought that one main point of the article was highlighting that the arbitrary 'ban Euro 4' or 'permit Euro 6' fails when the tests that are used to decide that 6 is better than 4 can be so totally off the mark, meaning that the 4 might actually be 'better' than the 6, but then politicians make decisions to ban certain classes of vehicles based on incomplete facts, then it's good to highlight it.
I am afraid I do not think too much about the harm done by my travels, but look at the cost of ownership, a bit selfish I know. Flying next month, so I'm really doing my bit of planetary harm (sorry) this year.
I'm struggling to see the bias though, BBC or otherwise, in the article. If there is a criticism, then it is that he hasn't taken his uncle John's 2017 hybrid along to see where that come in the 'real world' tests... might not be as perfect as everyone claims, if you included the electricity generation from coal and gas, or nasty nuclear power stations...

 

[Bellcrew]

I

I thought that one main point of the article was highlighting that the arbitrary 'ban Euro 4' or 'permit Euro 6' fails when the tests that are used to decide that 6 is better than 4 can be so totally off the mark, meaning that the 4 might actually be 'better' than the 6, but then politicians make decisions to ban certain classes of vehicles based on incomplete facts, then it's good to highlight it.
I am afraid I do not think too much about the harm done by my travels, but look at the cost of ownership, a bit selfish I know. Flying next month, so I'm really doing my bit of planetary harm (sorry) this year.
I'm struggling to see the bias though, BBC or otherwise, in the article. If there is a criticism, then it is that he hasn't taken his uncle John's 2017 hybrid along to see where that come in the 'real world' tests... might not be as perfect as everyone claims, if you included the electricity generation from coal and gas, or nasty nuclear power stations...

It is all about tax, until gas/oil fired boilers, gas fires/hobs and laughably wood burners/fires are also checked for NOx production and fitted with suitable control systems we know the reason for the ongoing scare stories.

 

[phillme]

I bet my cali is a lot less toxic than MP's tax returns

 

[Mark Wade]

What makes me smile is this Utopian vision of an all electric vehicle future which sounds great but where do they think that all the electricity comes from to charge this all electric future up. It has to be generated and I think that we are a long way off from being self sufficient in renewable energy generation that will allow this vision to come to fruition. Also as the demand in power would mostly likely spike around teatime when everyone is getting in from work and recharging their vehicles for work in the morning there would be hell on if the great British public didn't have enough power to boil the kettle for their teatime cuppa

 

[Paul S]

I too read the article and found the results very interesting. As has been said before, taking the manufacturing energy into account you're likely better off looking after an old car than getting a new one. One thing that I thought of after reading it though applicable to those that run a diesel heater: there's no emission control at all on that so on a still night are we all slowly gassing ourselves in our own cloud of NOx?

 

[RodCouncil]

Given we both take the tunnelbana to work in Stockholm and the Cali is our only car, not to mention the 10k of cycling I do each year I'm thinking my toxic offset is better than most.

 

[Ocean Spirit]

Given we both take the tunnelbana to work in Stockholm and the Cali is our only car, not to mention the 10k of cycling I do each year I'm thinking my toxic offset is better than most.

10k? pfttt!!
I run that in under ..........oh see what you mean
That's a lot Rod. I think my more casual cycling may knock up 2000 miles per year on my Aluxx giant Defy.

 

[ArunAlec]

Has this thread had a title edit? Cali to Wife!!

 

[Meoncoast]

Has this thread had a title edit? Cali to Wife!!

back to Cali now was the site HACKED

 

[ArunAlec]

back to Cali now was the site HACKED

It's them Russians!

 

[Ocean Spirit]

Back to wife again?

 

[GrannyJen]

I'm not getting involved on the toxicity of anyone's wife

 

[Ocean Spirit]

I'm not getting involved on the toxicity of anyone's wife

LOL...
Actually what I meant was, the title had gone back tp wife again instead of Cali but it may just have bee that I needed to refresh the page.

 

[GrannyJen]

LOL...
Actually what I meant was, the title had gone back tp wife again instead of Cali but it may just have bee that I needed to refresh the page.

I have been watching the changes of thread title with a mixture of alarm and amusement

 

[Stoneybroke]

Not me changing the title I assure you!
Mods?

 

[GrannyJen]

Not me changing the title I assure you!
Mods?

Some people just never grow up

 

[Velma's Dad]

Just got round to reading the BBC article that Stoneybroke referred to. Sorry, a bit behind on this, but it's still topical because today the London T-zone was kicked off.

The head of the car industry body the SMMT said today about the London T-charge: "...bigger improvements could be achieved by policies which incentivise the uptake of the latest, lowest emission vehicles.”.

Well, as a new car salesman, he would say that, wouldn't he. Conveniently ignoring what was very well brought out in the BBC article (or, to be more exact, by the data provided by the independent emissions testing company Emissions Analytics, that the article is all about).

That is, a whole bunch of the latest Euro 6 engined cars are actually gobsmackingly crap in real-world tests on NOx and particulates. One of the current model Nissan Qashqais comes out more than 18 times worse than the Euro 6 limit says it should be on NOx. While others - including some VWs and Skodas, interestingly - manage to stay within the Euro 6 spec.

My take-out from this is that if you're really concerned about the urban air quality problem (ie trying not to poison too many kids and kill old people, sorry to be provocatively blunt but that's what this is actually all about) when choosing a new car, you really have to look at the real-world data for the specific car you're interested in, not just at whether it's a Euro 5, 6 or whatever.

I'm still not much clearer where the Cali sits in all this.

 

[Borris]

What makes me smile is this Utopian vision of an all electric vehicle future which sounds great but where do they think that all the electricity comes from to charge this all electric future up. It has to be generated and I think that we are a long way off from being self sufficient in renewable energy generation that will allow this vision to come to fruition. Also as the demand in power would mostly likely spike around teatime when everyone is getting in from work and recharging their vehicles for work in the morning there would be hell on if the great British public didn't have enough power to boil the kettle for their teatime cuppa

We'd all have to go outside and brew up in our Calis instead.

 

[RodCouncil]

lf you're really concerned about the urban air quality problem

Walk, ride your bike or take public transport, my next buy is an electric bucket bike so I can go shopping or to the builders yard in.