Kids on bikes

[Amarillo]

The helmet just fell off this poor soul.

 

[WelshGas]

Ooooh... Check the tyres..... Wear a helmet... Wear a hv vest... When I was a kid we drove our bikes down mine shafts in a pair of shorts. We survived. Let kids be kids. It should hurt and it should be fun. Climb trees... Fall off your bike without a suit of armour on. Live. Bleed. Breathe. Enjoy.

Having been involved in numerous Organ Donation procedures over the years, including a substantial number of Child Organ harvests I’m sure those patients on the Organ Transplant Waiting Lists would fully support your opinion. I’m not so sure that the Relatives of the Organ Donors would.

 

[Amarillo]

Having been involved in numerous Organ Donation procedures over the years, including a substantial number of Child Organ harvests I’m sure those patients on the Organ Transplant Waiting Lists would fully support your opinion. I’m not so sure that the Relatives of the Organ Donors would.

Cheery as ever, WG.

Mile for mile, cycling is safer than walking.

If you are serious about improving the safety of vulnerable groups, look at the motor vehicle drivers which kill them. A good start would be mandatory cyclist training for anyone wishing to begin driving lessons.

 

[Jason wallace]

We've always had Islabikes for my girls. They are on they second set now and heading towards an upgrade later this year. The first 2 which they managed to keep mint sold for about £50 each less than we paid 2 years before. The condition and a price increase on the the same bike brand new helped.

Like Calis, residuals are great too. It's not unusual for a second hand Islabike to go for 2/3 its original cost.

We paid £259.99 each for the boys' first bikes in May 2016. It would be nice to see them sell for more than £150 each. Follow their auction here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333227890733
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333230037814

 

[tuono001]

The helmet just fell off this poor soul.

Should have cut some holes in a bucket for a better fit

 

[pjm-84]

Ooooh... Check the tyres..... Wear a helmet... Wear a hv vest... When I was a kid we drove our bikes down mine shafts in a pair of shorts. We survived. Let kids be kids. It should hurt and it should be fun. Climb trees... Fall off your bike without a suit of armour on. Live. Bleed. Breathe. Enjoy.

Yep and when I started in construction we had nearly 3 times the fatality rate. It was more fun back them but sadly some didn't go home at end of the day. I also remember kids playing on building sites.

That said I'm not an H&S fanatic. My 9 years as a reserve RM in my 20s put paid to that.

 

[bigmac77]

We've always had Islabikes for my girls. They are on they second set now and heading towards an upgrade later this year. The first 2 which they managed to keep mint sold for about £50 each less than we paid 2 years before. The condition and a price increase on the the same bike brand new helped.

We managed to sell a rather well used Beinn 20 L that my eldest son had grown out of for a few quid more than we paid for it. I was well chuffed. It softened the blow of a Cnoc 16 only getting to half its new price.

 

[WelshGas]

Cheery as ever, WG.

Mile for mile, cycling is safer than walking.

If you are serious about improving the safety of vulnerable groups, look at the motor vehicle drivers which kill them. A good start would be mandatory cyclist training for anyone wishing to begin driving lessons.

Your Child, Your Consent Form.

Funny how you only accept evidence when it supports your arguments. You don't have to be on the road to fall off your bicycle, especially children, so their injuries and death would not appear in those statistics, and its a bit late to say " They should have had a helmet on because we might not be here!" as you switch off the ventilator.

 

[Digger]

My original comment regarding a helmet was not intended to start a mass for and against argument, merely an observation as I lost a good friend who fell off his bike and hit his head on a small stone and died. I don't care about statistics as it is irrelevant if it is your own who are involved. Statistics are open to both interpretation and manipulation and used to prove what?. As for comparisons with the Netherlands - wrong on every level as totally different environments. Be safe and be aware without creating fear.

 

[Amarillo]

Your Child, Your Consent Form.

Funny how you only accept evidence when it supports your arguments. You don't have to be on the road to fall off your bicycle, especially children, so their injuries and death would not appear in those statistics, and its a bit late to say " They should have had a helmet on because we might not be here!" as you switch off the ventilator.

I think there is clear evidence that cyclist helmet use is beneficial for several types of cycling, including, but not limited to, mountain biking, BMX and racing.

I see little overall benefit in cycle helmets for utility cycling. The aim of parents should, in my opinion, be to reduce the likelihood of an accident occurring, and not to try to mitigate the consequence while disregarding the other.

So yes, if I were to pack my boys off on a BMX or mountain biking course I would want them to wear a helmet, preferably one that offers face protection and neck support. For a gentle pootle along a canal tow path to the cafe, or across the park to the playground, I feel no need.

 

[Joker 1299]

Ooooh... Check the tyres..... Wear a helmet... Wear a hv vest... When I was a kid we drove our bikes down mine shafts in a pair of shorts. We survived. Let kids be kids. It should hurt and it should be fun. Climb trees... Fall off your bike without a suit of armour on. Live. Bleed. Breathe. Enjoy.

Yeah, you survived, you lived to tell the tale. That’s great. Those who didn’t are not able to contribute to debates like this one while enjoying life with their California. When I was at school, I remember a local kid being blown off his bike and into a lamppost by a sudden gust of wind. He was killed instantly. I rode a motorbike then (and now) and this was before the time when helmets were compulsory for motorbikes, never mind pushbikes. I rode past the scene of the accident the day after it happened and I will never forget the look of anguish on the kids fathers face as he stared helplessly at the pool of blood that was all that remained of his loving son. He had to walk past there every day on his way to work. After that day, I always wore a helmet. I feel like I should ignore this thread now as I don’t want to read one day about one of the Amarillo kids being killed (or worse) in a tragic accident because dad had faith in statistics.

 

[Aubisque]

Sounds like a tragic accident. But also a freak (extremely rare) and emotive one where a bike helmet may not have helped anyway. And I am not sure using that as an example of what could go wrong in extremis and then effectively pre-blaming Amarillo for making poor risk choices (given parents have to do it all the time) is very helpful.

I think most agree that it's not black and white, local environmental considerations are a big factor (busy road/offroad/park/campsite/pretty much anywhere in Holland for example) and ultimately we want kids to have fun on their bikes. Which was the point of the original post. So let's allow for some sensible parenting within the law please.

The alternative is blaming parents for anything that happens to their kids as in theory they could always have taken more precautions.

 

[Romke]

 

[Borris]

I've just dipped into this thread and cannot believe that any parent would be prepared to allow their precious offspring to ride around on the roads or anywhere else without a proper well fitting cycle helmet. No, I didn't wear one when I was a kid but that was because they didn't really exist then. Many cars didn't have seat belts either but that shouldn't be an excuse for not wearing them now.

To hell with statistics, the truth of the matter is that it's an inescapable fact that people including kids get injured and killed every year whilst cycling so any measure that can reduce this risk should be used. It's part of being a responsible parent! The old it won't happen to me thought process just isn't valid because it could be your precious darling next and it would be too late to change your mind after the event.

 

[Aubisque]

it's an inescapable fact that people including kids get injured and killed every year whilst cycling so any measure that can reduce this risk should be used.

That's fine, but I then assume it's full crash helmets when travelling in your car also.

 

[Amarillo]

I've just dipped into this thread and cannot believe that any parent would be prepared to allow their precious offspring to ride around on the roads or anywhere else without a proper well fitting cycle helmet. No, I didn't wear one when I was a kid but that was because they didn't really exist then. Many cars didn't have seat belts either but that shouldn't be an excuse for not wearing them now.

To hell with statistics, the truth of the matter is that it's an inescapable fact that people including kids get injured and killed every year whilst cycling so any measure that can reduce this risk should be used. It's part of being a responsible parent! The old it won't happen to me thought process just isn't valid because it could be your precious darling next and it would be too late to change your mind then.

You make a compelling argument that children, especially toddlers, should wear a helmet when out for a stroll in the park.

 

[GrannyJen]

In the 50's I walked three miles a day to school , ever so healthy except for one of the most dangerous smogs anywhere (London 1959)

In the 60's I cycled everywhere in London, without a helmet and without anything like the traffic we have today.

I the late 60's I messed with drugs and never then knew that one of my adolescent pop idols, Syd Barratt, was frying his brains with acid.

In the 70's I never wore a helmet when either rock-climbing domestically or climbing some big mountains in far off places. I did mourn the passing of Laurie Holliwell and grieved deeply (and still do to some extent) for the loss of Dr Tom, both whom might have fared better if they had been wearing helmets.

Because it was right for me, in "those days" does not make it right today in today's environment.

As for kids on bikes, I am torn. My grandchildren are graduating from stabilisers to two wheels, Mum insists on a helmet, Dad insists on freedom and Granny is, well, Granny ..... loving the freedom of not wearing a helmet balanced with worrying about the idiots on our now overcrowded roads. In fact I would never allow the boys to cycle with me without wearing a helmet.

Everything that Tom (Amarillo) writes about his relationship with his boys makes me glow. Who am I to say what is right and what is wrong. Personally I would err on caution but I am seventy not thirty.

 

[Joker 1299]

Sounds like a tragic accident. But also a freak (extremely rare) and emotive one where a bike helmet may not have helped anyway. And I am not sure using that as an example of what could go wrong in extremis and then effectively pre-blaming Amarillo for making poor risk choices (given parents have to do it all the time) is very helpful.

I think most agree that it's not black and white, local environmental considerations are a big factor (busy road/offroad/park/campsite/pretty much anywhere in Holland for example) and ultimately we want kids to have fun on their bikes. Which was the point of the original post. So let's allow for some sensible parenting within the law please.

The alternative is blaming parents for anything that happens to their kids as in theory they could always have taken more precautions.

It was both tragic and freak. Who knows whether Tetanus (that was his nickname) would have been saved by wearing a helmet. I know one thing, if my head was going to hit a lamppost I would rather it be with, not without any helmet. I am not pre-blaming Tom. He’s a reasonable guy (mostly) and I would just like him to hear all sides of the argument. At the end of the day, the decision is his.

 

[Joker 1299]

In the 50's I walked three miles a day to school , ever so healthy except for one of the most dangerous smogs anywhere (London 1959)

That’ll teach me (not) to read without my glasses; I read this as one of the most dangerous snogs anywhere... The rest was a bit of a disappointment!

 

[Big Ted]

Mine wear helmets, but that’s our choice.

What gets my goat is poorly fitted cycle helmets. If you are going to wear them, then at least make sure they are done up properly and are fitted correctly.
I was out on a family ride over the bank holidays and saw many children with helmets on the rear of their heads, clearly slipped off due to poor fitment.
A badly fitted helmet is surely worse than no helmet if some of the previously made points are taken into consideration.

 

[Borris]

That's fine, but I then assume it's full crash helmets when travelling in your car also.

Taking your comment seriously, having been an operational fire fighter for thirty years I've seen plenty of evidence supporting the very many safety aids and features fitted to vehicles over that time, including seat belts, airbags and energy absorbing crumple zones that protect and maintain the integrity of the passenger compartment to name but three. Whereas many years ago the occupants of vehicles often had serious head and crush injuries following a serious crash, that is no longer the norm. Vehicles are much better designed now to absorb the energy of an impact and protect the occupants.

The wearing of crash helmets in vehicles would no doubt be an added safety measure as it is in motor racing. But that isn't the direction that research into motor vehicle safety measures has gone. Modern vehicles have numerous airbags spouting from various locations covering legs, abdomen and most importantly the head from side and frontal impacts so the use of helmets is less than critical. Racing cars have most of these safety features stripped out and are generally engaged in higher risk driving so the need to wear helmets is both regulation and a necessity.

Putting a kid on a bike is an entirely different matter. Youngsters are constantly developing their motor and balancing skills whilst at the same time often showing no fear at all. Some children may also not be fully aware of the surfaces they are riding on and how the bicycle will react. Road conditions and other traffic may either confuse or frighten them into doing something unexpected. So the potential for a serious accident is always there. They only have one cranium, one brain and one life and without a crash helmet, the only thing protecting it in an impact is their skin and hair!

 

[Borris]

You make a compelling argument that children, especially toddlers, should wear a helmet when out for a stroll in the park.

Now your just being silly!

 

[WelshGas]

Organ Donor numbers have reduced significantly since the 70s and 80s because of the introduction of the safety methods outlined by @Borris above. Statistics can be made to show whatever you want. The fact that cycling maybe safer than driving a car or whatever. A fall onto a hard surface whether it be a road, cycleway, park pathway from a bicycle, scooter or skateboard/roller skates can lead to a severe head injury in a child that can be life changing or life ending. Having dealt with the aftermath over many years I would advocate such protection. Young children don't understand the risks and certainly won't understand the difference between falling on a grassy slope or a concrete pathway. By insisting on a helmet when riding or on a skateboard whenever you will mitigate these risks until such time as the child understands the risks involved .

 

[Borris]

Organ Donor numbers have reduced significantly since the 70s and 80s because of the introduction of the safety methods outlined by @Borris above. Statistics can be made to show whatever you want. The fact that cycling maybe safer than driving a car or whatever. A fall onto a hard surface whether it be a road, cycleway, park pathway from a bicycle, scooter or skateboard/roller skates can lead to a severe head injury in a child that can be life changing or life ending. Having dealt with the aftermath over many years I would advocate such protection. Young children don't understand the risks and certainly won't understand the difference between falling on a grassy slope or a concrete pathway. By insisting on a helmet when riding or on a skateboard whenever you will mitigate these risks until such time as the child understands the risks involved .

Sorry WG, I wanted to put a green tick to agree but I don't seem to have that facility since the site was re-organised. How is it done?

 

[Amarillo]

Now your just being silly!

Given that pedestrians are just as likely to be killed on our streets as cyclists, I'm simply extending your argument about utility cyclists wearing helmets to pedestrians.