Limp Mode - help please!

[badger1777]

Well guys, thanks very much for all of this, it is extremely informative. If only I was closer to either of your businesses - I'm in Cornwall.

RE. DPF - spoke to a garage who recommended getting rid of the DPF.... which I've heard of before, but unsure of the ramifications / legality? The comment was that if you haven't got a DPF problem now, you will have at some point

Re. Electrical fault - so the battery charged during a long journey and i got the Central Control Unit to switch on. As per Alex's recommendation, I switched on all interior lights and ran the Aux heater - and the lights all started flickering as it primed. Also, if the engine isn't running, I can't switch the CCU off - it reports 'Roof Open' when it isn't. The charge was depleting fast too. So sounds like Shunt problem but why the strange behaviour of the CCU? Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

If you have your DPF removed then your vehicle will not pass its MOT as if it had one from factory then it still has to have one for MOT purposes.

Check the camper control unit for faults in the hidden menu to see if anything is logged reference the roof saying it is open when it is not. Had one recently that showed the same thing about the roof intermittently and there was a fault logged which we cleared and that sorted out the fault.

cheers

 

[TH Performance]

Let's not confuse the issue, the mot is a visual inspection for the presence of a DPF, nobody is talking about removing it, however one option is something called DPF delete where the insides are removed. Now, there will be scare stories about pollution etc but let's be honest, the DPF is supposed to regenerate on motorways/ A roads etc, so as long as it doesn't regenerate in towns, villages and cities that's ok then.

No manufacturer of vehicles like DPF's however the eu decided that all new vehicles should have them etc.

They fill up and if you haven't followed the manufacturers handbook to the letter they will not cover the cost of replacing them. Its a nice earner for manufacturers etc.

 

[badger1777]

Alex - how do I access a 'hidden' menu?! Do the other symptoms sound like the Earth Shunt problem?

THP - yes, that's the one - DPF delete - filter removed, all sensors staying in situ. I'm assuming an MOT would NOT pick this up as it would only be an external visual check?!?

Thanks

 

[TH Performance]

We have MOT test facilities here, each and every MOT tester has read Special Notice 1-2014 February 2014 which clearly states that the inspection is a visual inspection.

We have re-fitted quite a few now where people have purchased bypass pipes and have now fallen foul of the new regs.

This option is cheaper, it's a one off cost, you never have to worry about the dpf filling up again.

Contact Dan at JustVans on 01803 522666 or http://www.justvanz.co.uk/ and tell him Terry up along the coast gave him your details. He's in Devon so a bit closer.

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

Alex - how do I access a 'hidden' menu?! Do the other symptoms sound like the Earth Shunt problem?Thanks

Push and hold the right know with the return arrow button at the same time for a couple of seconds and this will go into the other menu. You can scroll down to diagnose option which if there are any faults will give you a code and can be cleared.

Cheers

 

[Stu]

I'm really not a fan of this whole DPF delete thing.

Some companies will tell you that you'll face problems with it in the end so better to get it removed now bla bla bla, but interestingly they are the ones that sell the services to remove them. Agreed they do have limitations and some of the earlier incarnations were not ideal, even to the extent that manufacturers were at one time issuing leaflets to explain the technology and how to drive a vehicle with a DPF fitted.

It's important to understand that the DPF should be regarded as a consumable or non lifetime component subject to wear after time or use. So to say you should remove it because eventually it will fail and cause you further expense is like saying take your brake pads out just in case you wear them out and need to replace them during the life of the vehicle. Something else that often 'kills' a DPF is when the driver ignores the MIL/CEL on the dashboard advising that the DPF should be regenerated which if continually ignored will cause the DPF to become overloaded with soot to the extent it could be a fire danger to attempt a forced regeneration so has to be replaced.

Of course if a person wants to go ahead and remove the DPF from their vehicle then that is entirely their choice and they are free to do so, but what concerns me is when they are not in receipt of the full facts and understanding of the subject.

For example it is not just the MOT regulations you can fall foul of, check your insurance policy and see what they think of it. Be prepared for an increased premium though.

Before anyone thinks it I'm not a miserable old git that hates modifications, I've had some quite seriously modified cars in recent years.

We have re-fitted quite a few now where people have purchased bypass pipes and have now fallen foul of the new regs.

An example if ever one was needed. The rules change and now people are rushing back to have at least the outer casing of a DPF refitted. What happens when they change the rules again?

 

[James]

I'm really not a fan of this whole DPF delete thing.

Some companies will tell you that you'll face problems with it in the end so better to get it removed now bla bla bla, but interestingly they are the ones that sell the services to remove them. Agreed they do have limitations and some of the earlier incarnations were not ideal, even to the extent that manufacturers were at one time issuing leaflets to explain the technology and how to drive a vehicle with a DPF fitted.

It's important to understand that the DPF should be regarded as a consumable or non lifetime component subject to wear after time or use. So to say you should remove it because eventually it will fail and cause you further expense is like saying take your brake pads out just in case you wear them out and need to replace them during the life of the vehicle. Something else that often 'kills' a DPF is when the driver ignores the MIL/CEL on the dashboard advising that the DPF should be regenerated which if continually ignored will cause the DPF to become overloaded with soot to the extent it could be a fire danger to attempt a forced regeneration so has to be replaced.

Of course if a person wants to go ahead and remove the DPF from their vehicle then that is entirely their choice and they are free to do so, but what concerns me is when they are not in receipt of the full facts and understanding of the subject.

For example it is not just the MOT regulations you can fall foul of, check your insurance policy and see what they think of it. Be prepared for an increased premium though.

Before anyone thinks it I'm not a miserable old git that hates modifications, I've had some quite seriously modified cars in recent years.

We have re-fitted quite a few now where people have purchased bypass pipes and have now fallen foul of the new regs.

An example if ever one was needed. The rules change and now people are rushing back to have at least the outer casing of a DPF refitted. What happens when they change the rules again?

 

[badger1777]

Thanks Alex, THPerformance, Stu and everyone else for their words of wisdom and sound advice... I have a much much better understanding of what is happening thanks to you all.

The Cali is going in on Tues for a diagnostics check and a turbo clean. Hopefully something clear will emerge from the diagnostics / error codes.

I'll report back, because frankly I'll probably need a bit more advice!

Cheers

 

[Stu]

Lets hope it's not all bad and not too expensive.

 

[TH Performance]

An example if ever one was needed. The rules change and now people are rushing back to have at least the outer casing of a DPF refitted. What happens when they change the rules again?

[/quote]

I don't think people will worry too much, even just for financial reasons.

Cost of dpf delete between 500-800 on average.
Cost of new dpf filter approx £1200-£1500 and maybe new sensors (at £120 each???)

We have changed and dpf deleted blocked dpf's on vans as young as 4 years old.

They simply calculate the cost of a new dpf vs how long it lasted against the cost of replacement or dpf delete.

A local taxi firm has been using shuttles, they fill up in less than a year. They are not covered by warranty. Cost to replace every year vs delete altogether. They were receiving complaints from the lock council authority because the vehicle was attempting regeneration in cost centres etc and causing very poor running.

What we need is a removable canister type filter.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Fully agree with Stu on this one.
I drive a lot of short distance miles and maybe once a week/every other week a long journey. So far no DPF issues. Also had none on my old van.

The big problem now with regards to the new MOT rules is, yes it will probably pass the MOT with the internals removed. However, it definetly won't be covered by your insurance company...!!! Insurance companies won't cover vehicles any longer with the DPF removed.

TH Performance is right about the steep costs to replace but there are quite a few DPF cleaning centres popping up now offering a much cheaper solution

Me, I'm keeping mine :hello

http://www.dpfcleanteam.co.uk

 

[James]

Fully agree with Stu on this one.
I drive a lot of short distance miles and maybe once a week/every other week a long journey. So far no DPF issues. Also had none on my old van.

The big problem now with regards to the new MOT rules is, yes it will probably pass the MOT with the internals removed. However, it definetly won't be covered by your insurance company...!!! Insurance companies won't cover vehicles any longer with the DPF removed.

TH Performance is right about the steep costs to replace but there are quite a few DPF cleaning centres popping up now offering a much cheaper solution

Me, I'm keeping mine :hello

http://www.dpfcleanteam.co.uk

i am fairly ignorant of such things, I thought this also affected your insurance?

 

[TH Performance]

Fully agree with Stu on this one.
I drive a lot of short distance miles and maybe once a week/every other week a long journey. So far no DPF issues. Also had none on my old van.

Nail on head there, once a week a long journey which helps clean them out.

The big problem now with regards to the new MOT rules is, yes it will probably pass the MOT with the internals removed. However, it definetly won't be covered by your insurance company...!!! Insurance companies won't cover vehicles any longer with the DPF removed.

Not true. You cannot say for 100% certain that every vehicle owner that has had a dpf delete carried out won't be covered by their insurers my friend.

TH Performance is right about the steep costs to replace but there are quite a few DPF cleaning centres popping up now offering a much cheaper solution

Me, I'm keeping mine :hello

http://www.dpfcleanteam.co.uk

I'm not fully convinced this works though, regardless of claims. How can you be certain that it's 100% clean inside. One company I know (not mentioning names plus they are not on here anyway) replaces the pressure sensors every time as in their own words, they cannot be 100% certain cleaning completely cleans then out. When asked why they change sensors they claim that they give false readings so a new one must be installed???

However playing devils advocate, cleanings got to be better than nothing at all and if it proves to work over the forthcoming years it could be the way forward. Personally I would rather there was some way of replacing them but there isn't.

As for me, i've seen engine's near meltdown, collapsed (we have photos) dpf's causing untold damage and a whole host of other problems. Working in a garage we see what these things do.

Anyway this topic has been done to death, some people will want dpf's cleaned, replaced, deleted etc, all we can do is offer pro's and con's and let people decide what's best for them under current regulations and cost wise.

 

[TH Performance]

i am fairly ignorant of such things, I thought this also affected your insurance?

Any modification to your vehicle can affect your insurance, new wheels, winter tyres, colour coding, new lights, spoilers, lowering, tinting windows etc, not just engine modifications.

Tell your insurance company everything, especially of you're driving around in a 40k plus van otherwise you could be in for a big shock.

Most stuff, including things like remapping are ok, some tuning companies are even officially approved by insurance companies.

 

[badger1777]

The van was showing a turbo boost error, no dpf errors. Garage checked hoses etc and they were fine, so assuming an internal problem we went ahead with the turbo clean using a brand called Revive. A few hours later I picked up the van and finished the process as per the instructions by driving it 'relatively briskly' for 20 mins... Lots of stuff came out the exhaust initially and suddenly the van feels so much more lively / responsive.

Just under £100 feels like good value and fingers crossed there is not dpf issue here.

So let's see what happens next time I accelerate up a hill on the motorway, that will be the litmus test, but so far looking promising.

Seeing an auto electrician next week about the electrics problem relating to the earth shunt / camper control unit.

 

[badger1777]

Re: insurance - I know we're supposed to tell them everything, but in all seriousness, how would they know / find out about a dpf delete? Naively, I just assume that wouldn't come up if you had to call your insurer in a regular claim situation? Interested to know more...

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

They could in theory find out in the event of an accident or a claim if they were able to look under the vehicle and chose to do so.

cheers

 

[Stu]

The van was showing a turbo boost error, no dpf errors. Garage checked hoses etc and they were fine, so assuming an internal problem we went ahead with the turbo clean using a brand called Revive. A few hours later I picked up the van and finished the process as per the instructions by driving it 'relatively briskly' for 20 mins... Lots of stuff came out the exhaust initially and suddenly the van feels so much more lively / responsive.

Just under £100 feels like good value and fingers crossed there is not dpf issue here.

So let's see what happens next time I accelerate up a hill on the motorway, that will be the litmus test, but so far looking promising.

Seeing an auto electrician next week about the electrics problem relating to the earth shunt / camper control unit.

Glad you've got it all sorted.

Ref the insurance issue you'll also need a remap with a DPF delete in order to remove the DPF sensor parameters from the software.

 

[v-tec]

The van was showing a turbo boost error, no dpf errors. Garage checked hoses etc and they were fine, so assuming an internal problem we went ahead with the turbo clean using a brand called Revive. A few hours later I picked up the van and finished the process as per the instructions by driving it 'relatively briskly' for 20 mins... Lots of stuff came out the exhaust initially and suddenly the van feels so much more lively / responsive.

Just under £100 feels like good value and fingers crossed there is not dpf issue here.

So let's see what happens next time I accelerate up a hill on the motorway, that will be the litmus test, but so far looking promising.

Seeing an auto electrician next week about the electrics problem relating to the earth shunt / camper control unit.

Hi badger,
I know it's a old post, But did your turbo clean sort out your over boost problem,
V-tec

 

[alstevens]

Did you get any fault codes? The van goes into limp mode therefore the ecu should have logged the fault code for why. He mentioned soot, did he mention anything about the dpf? It could be a number of things and it would be a lot easier to diagnose with some fault codes to start with. We've seen this happen and it's been caused by loose pipes (2.5's are notorious with their pipes swelling thus causing a loss of pressure etc) on quite a few occasions.

Still happening folks ...nov 2014 SE 280 .. warning light and lack of power .. long haul down the A30 down to 2nd on the hills. The garage did an additive routine and check ..450 pounds .. worked for a day .. back again ... turbo removed and sent for testing, " boost control wastegate unit seized from standing idle ' which is probably true as the van is low mileage and stood around a lot over the covid initial years. Another 2k to the garage..... took it for a run to the beach yesterday, 6 miles out a repeat. Couple of hours later drove back 10 miles with no lights and no problems ???? Settling in period ? Poor repair ?? The turbo repair is under warranty but not sure about the huge labour costs ... will contact the garage again tomorrow ... dispiriting. Took it to a local independent as the nearest VW van centre is nearly an hour away... maybe should have gone to the dealer ? Don't think the expense is going to stop soon ....

Al