Major school boy error....

Monty-Wilf bus

Monty-Wilf bus

Monty
VIP Member
Messages
54
Location
Exeter
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
So annoyed at myself, attempted to replace roof sensors after buying roof wiring loom. Managed to nick a hydraulic pipe, roof started to drop on one side ( obviously) . Quickly managed to stem leak enough to get roof lowered but it’s a couple of cm’s high on leak side. So now it’s an expensive VW job. Our fist trip away this year now abandoned.... gutted . My next dilemma is getting CARRS Exeter to fix ( not a great reputation) or risk drive to Breeze. Not a great Sunday so far... should have stayed in bed.
 
That's horrible for you. You have my sympathies.
I'd be a bit concerned about hydraulic fluid leaks and damaging the fabrics in the van as well.
As far as getting the roof down fully can you use the emergency straps? Just a thought.
 
That's horrible for you. You have my sympathies.
I'd be a bit concerned about hydraulic fluid leaks and damaging the fabrics in the van as well.
As far as getting the roof down fully can you use the emergency straps? Just a thought.
thankyou Jabberwocky, I think with the tie down kit it should be ok to get to VW. I am going to call around first thing in the morning but tempted to go to breeze even with the logistics hassle.
 
Darn. I hate it when a little job goes bad and turns into a bigger one. Done it so many times myself. Good luck.
 
Which pipe is it?

If you were going to tackle the sensors
maybe replacing the pipe is doable, its just been done here
by wes sex camper.
Worth a read-
 
Might be a stupid question, does it have to go into VW, could a hydraulic specialist not change the hose.

The reason I ask is we have one of the last Peugeot 306 CC produced locked away for my retirement but when it was in use one of the roof hydraulic hoses sprung a leak. Peugeot at the time wanted £900 just for the set of hoses and something ridiculous of about £80 for half a litre of their hydraulic oil. After some research I found a guy who provided an uprated set of hoses and the oil for under a £100 and fitted them myself.. Still going strong 10 years later.
 
thankyou Jabberwocky, I think with the tie down kit it should be ok to get to VW. I am going to call around first thing in the morning but tempted to go to breeze even with the logistics hassle.
All best wishes for a good outcome. At least you have options now.
 
Just a thought,
If it is simply a hose repair and recharge of hydraulic fluid, try some one like a plant repair company who specialise In onsite hydraulic repairs.

Such as Pirtek Or similar

Get a quote before the work is carried out many are Franchise so can vary in Cost
 
Just a thought,
If it is simply a hose repair and recharge of hydraulic fluid, try some one like a plant repair company who specialise In onsite hydraulic repairs.

Such as Pirtek Or similar

Get a quote before the work is carried out many are Franchise so can vary in Cost
Thanks everyone, think I am going to get Breeze to sort. The roof is down enough to drive ( with straps) and I don’t want to risk damage to pump or anything else. I will get them to install the full new loom for the sensors and replace hydraulic pipe. I will just have to prepare myself for the bill. I was going To struggle to get the rear sensor out due to the hydraulic connector so was half expecting a trip to dealer. I might just buy a coast.....
 
Thanks everyone, think I am going to get Breeze to sort. The roof is down enough to drive ( with straps) and I don’t want to risk damage to pump or anything else. I will get them to install the full new loom for the sensors and replace hydraulic pipe. I will just have to prepare myself for the bill. I was going To struggle to get the rear sensor out due to the hydraulic connector so was half expecting a trip to dealer. I might just buy a coast.....


“I might just buy a coast.....”

Breeze will be please to see you
 
Might be a stupid question, does it have to go into VW, could a hydraulic specialist not change the hose.

The reason I ask is we have one of the last Peugeot 306 CC produced locked away for my retirement but when it was in use one of the roof hydraulic hoses sprung a leak. Peugeot at the time wanted £900 just for the set of hoses and something ridiculous of about £80 for half a litre of their hydraulic oil. After some research I found a guy who provided an uprated set of hoses and the oil for under a £100 and fitted them myself.. Still going strong 10 years later.
I shte 306 cc a future classic or just a smaller car?
 
So annoyed at myself, attempted to replace roof sensors after buying roof wiring loom. Managed to nick a hydraulic pipe, roof started to drop on one side ( obviously) . Quickly managed to stem leak enough to get roof lowered but it’s a couple of cm’s high on leak side. So now it’s an expensive VW job. Our fist trip away this year now abandoned.... gutted . My next dilemma is getting CARRS Exeter to fix ( not a great reputation) or risk drive to Breeze. Not a great Sunday so far... should have stayed in bed.
Mmmmm ... my previous Cali developed a leak in the valve/pump? above the control unit & for whatever reason the entire roof had to come off. This required a major interior strip-down 'cos everything to do this was layered from the floor up. Yes, the entire lh side stripped out & all over the floor + Carrs, Exeter back about 2011?
& btw this was nnecessary … Carrs then local manager managed to persuade VW UK to cover half the £5.5K bill 'cos the van (bought s hand) was only 6 mths out of warranty. I was gutted!!! Have to say still having the current almost identical Cali regularly serviced & repaired there ...no problems.
 
So annoyed at myself, attempted to replace roof sensors after buying roof wiring loom. Managed to nick a hydraulic pipe, roof started to drop on one side ( obviously) . Quickly managed to stem leak enough to get roof lowered but it’s a couple of cm’s high on leak side. So now it’s an expensive VW job. Our fist trip away this year now abandoned.... gutted . My next dilemma is getting CARRS Exeter to fix ( not a great reputation) or risk drive to Breeze. Not a great Sunday so far... should have stayed in bed.
So the roof saga continues, following advice on here and my gut feeling I spoke to breeze vw and booked It in, explained exactly what the issue was and even had the part number for the damaged hose. I was quoted £800ish as I was told it was a fiddly job, but I just wanted it done. They said it would take a day. I left home this morning at 6am and was in to Vw at 8.15am. All good, our local office was 10mins walk so I could work there for the day and drive it back. Got a call at 9.15 , job may take longer and they did not want to rush it, so can I leave it overnight. I was offered a courtesy vehicle So I thought no worries, a pain going back tomorrow but it’s in the best Cali dealer in the SW and I was happy to have been told well in advance. I was ok with it all. Picked up loan vehicle at 1ish, my van was in car park and someone was just collecting it to go into workshop. Anyhow, got home at 6.15 pm, checked phone and had message from breeze, Very apologetic saying that it needs to go to a bodyshop ( presumably to remove front panel) and that they had already spent a lot of time on it but they can’t do the repair but also mentioned it would be around 30hrs, £3k at least. I can’t speak to anyone until the morning but now I am unsure what to do next. Wessexcamper managed to replace same hydraulic pipe without going to body shop. I will find out more tomorrow but in the meantime have been looking at all other options. Hydraulic pipe repairers, a specialist cabriolet roof hose company ( Luckily based in Exeter) and a jointing kit on eBay. It looks like the pump and hoses are similar to VAG cabriolet systems. A sleepless night ahead thinking of options.... a couple of quick questions if I may 1) if hydraulic oil drained can the roof be lifted up manually ( like a beach) so that I can access the pipe 2) anyone know the operating pressure of the hydraulic system? . I really hope breeze can do it but I don’t hold out much hope now ☹
 
Last edited:
Mmmmm ... my previous Cali developed a leak in the valve/pump? above the control unit & for whatever reason the entire roof had to come off. This required a major interior strip-down 'cos everything to do this was layered from the floor up. Yes, the entire lh side stripped out & all over the floor + Carrs, Exeter back about 2011?
& btw this was nnecessary … Carrs then local manager managed to persuade VW UK to cover half the £5.5K bill 'cos the van (bought s hand) was only 6 mths out of warranty. I was gutted!!! Have to say still having the current almost identical Cali regularly serviced & repaired there ...no problems.
I spoke with Steve who was the manager at Carr’s a few years back ( i think he’s back to try sort Carr’s Exeter out)and he mentioned a Cali that had to be fully stripped out after a roof issue and there were parts all over the workshop, this May have been yours! I decided to try breeze and they said they could do the repair and quoted £860ish.... not heap but I was happy until today.
 
Just a thought,
If it is simply a hose repair and recharge of hydraulic fluid, try some one like a plant repair company who specialise In onsite hydraulic repairs.

Such as Pirtek Or similar

Get a quote before the work is carried out many are Franchise so can vary in Cost
Thanks perfectos, this is another option I am exploring.
 
Might be a stupid question, does it have to go into VW, could a hydraulic specialist not change the hose.

The reason I ask is we have one of the last Peugeot 306 CC produced locked away for my retirement but when it was in use one of the roof hydraulic hoses sprung a leak. Peugeot at the time wanted £900 just for the set of hoses and something ridiculous of about £80 for half a litre of their hydraulic oil. After some research I found a guy who provided an uprated set of hoses and the oil for under a £100 and fitted them myself.. Still going strong 10 years later.
Hi Karlos, following your suggestion I have found a local company who specialise in replacement hydraulic hoses for cabriolets. Seem to be very similar size pipe work and in fact pumps also look very similar. Thankyou
 
You will easily be able to lift the roof. But unlike the beach it wont go up on gas struts. You will need to lift it by hand with a mate side by side and cheock it up with varying size bits of timber. Good luck though .
 
Not really relevant to this , but dragged from memory ... someone posted years ago of a conversion to manual lifting.
 
I spoke with Steve who was the manager at Carr’s a few years back ( i think he’s back to try sort Carr’s Exeter out)and he mentioned a Cali that had to be fully stripped out after a roof issue and there were parts all over the workshop, this May have been yours! I decided to try breeze and they said they could do the repair and quoted £860ish.... not heap but I was happy until today.
Lol ... he was Temporarily back at Carrs 2 yrs ago when I turned up with my present one & even gave me a gash but brand new steel spare wheel . But gone again a while ago now I thought. Must have a photo of the stripped out contents spread out somewhere in legacy laptop or desktop PC files. Will post if can find.

Really feel your pain on this Stuart!
 
Last edited:
Hi Stuart, So sorry to hear of your predicament. I promised myself to do a more complete write-up of the process we went through to replace the pipes but I've not got near to it yet.

The short answers to your questions are here:

a) I managed to get the pipes to go through the grommet after removing the old pipes and roof sensor wiring cables. No body panels were removed.

b) Our roof was stuck in the "up" position so we didn't have to lift it up manually. I made up a wooden support and at the appropriate moment I released the hydraulic pressure and the roof gently sat down on it without any drama.

c) I got the sealant out of the grommet by a laborious process of working it by hand until it came out.

And here's the longer answer ...

We have a 2013 California SE (T5), and all of the comments here refer to our van. I don't know how much would be relevant to earlier or later models (eg T6 Oceans).

Bear in mind that the failure in our pipe was next to the grommet, and it was in the pipe which gets pressurised to lower the roof. So the oil came out quite close to the grommet and I daresay it made the grommet / sealant fairly well covered in the oil, which may have helped in getting the sealant out of the grommet.

For background, it is my belief that the damage was caused by a repair at Breeze in Southampton in January in the same area of the roof. The van had been in Breeze in the autumn of 2019 for the cam belts to be changed and they spotted roof corrosion which eventually resulted in the roof being treated under warranty. Just before sending the van in for the roof work (which I am told is carried out in a specialist body shop somewhere and not at the dealer) we noticed that there was water ingress at the top of the A pillar which manifested itself as a wet roof lining and wet carpet under the drivers feet / pedals area.

After the van came back from the body shop the chaps in Breeze looked at the water ingress issue and told us that they had to fix a fault caused by a bodged repair by a previous owner. No further details but I understood that either the grommet or the small drain pipe had become blocked or disconnected or something. We have not had any further water ingress after they "fixed" it.

After this repair, the roof had been up (and down, obviously) twice before we found that it would not go down any more. I could hear the hydraulic oil bubbling and smell the oil and I found oil leaking at the front of the roof at the top of the A pillar - where the grommet is.

Breeze could not look at the van for 3 weeks and anyhow the roof was stuck in the up position and the van therefore not driveable without messing with the hydraulics. I was reluctant to let them charge me a 4 figure sum to give them the opportunity to mess up the van again. So I decided to tackle the job myself.

I removed the cab head lining which was one of the tricky parts of the job. The post by TripleBee (here: https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/as-promised-changing-the-electrohydraulic-roof-pump.33489/) was really helpful. He misses one or two key details though, including the laborious process of removing the fittings and especially the central control console. I had to remove the interior mirror, for example, which has two cables attached to it. The frame which the sliding roof locates into (sorry - I don't have the correct nomenclature) was probably the most difficult part to remove (and replace) because it is glued in place and also has a pop rivet at the rear of each side. There are other threads (such as this one: https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/how-to-remove-headlining-around-central-unit.34908/) which give more details of this. I did it with the roof up. It would be even more difficult to do it with the roof down, and the roof lining can't be completely removed without removing this frame.

As I mentioned, our roof was stuck in the up position. A thread on here somewhere (can't find it just now) recommends using an acro to get the roof up. My father in law is a retired builder and he just laughed and said that an acro is massive overkill, is very heavy and will make nice dents in the floor and the roof. The thread did mention spreading the load with plywood but father-in-law says you would need really thick plywood to be sure not to damage the van.

In the event I made a tee piece from some 2 x 2 timber (maybe 2.5m long) and some 9mm plywood at the top and bottom to spread the load. When I had to release the hydraulic pressure the roof rested gently (about 2/3 of the way up) on the support. I didn't try to move it too much but I got the feeling that it would be possible to manually push the roof up once the pressure was released. That might be a 2 person job.

The sealant was already looking like a bodge job after the work done in Southampton. I removed it by initially cutting it back carefully with a stanley knife to get the excess off and leave just a thin layer near to the cables and grommet. By working the grommet and cables / pipes (which were at least a bit oily) with my fingers I eventually (bit by bit) was able to get the sealant out of the grommet hole. When you order the pipes from VW they come in a pair, so I decided to replace both of them. After removing the pipes I cleaned up the inside of the grommet as best I could using a solvent (I used IPA or iso-propyl alcohol), with just the roof sensor cables left behind. If you are replacing the roof sensor cables then you will have an empty grommet hole and this will be easy.

You can get some sealant softener for use in bathrooms and I was tempted to try this at one point but I would worry about damage to paintwork etc.

That's probably enough for one posting and I hope it is useful for you. I have a ton of other tips for you if you decide to tackle this job yourself and I also have a mostly full bottle of the hydraulic oil. Good luck with it and feel free to ask any other questions you might think of.
 
Hi Karlos, following your suggestion I have found a local company who specialise in replacement hydraulic hoses for cabriolets. Seem to be very similar size pipe work and in fact pumps also look very similar. Thankyou
My pleasure.
 
Are there any California electric roof specialists anywhere...?
The only person i can think of, is Kernow Conversions. Im sure they fit Cali roofs to panel vans and therefore probably know more than anyone about the electric California roof system.

Its terrible that Volkswagen don't have at least one specialist California UK centre for this sort of thing...
 
Last edited:
Hi Stuart, So sorry to hear of your predicament. I promised myself to do a more complete write-up of the process we went through to replace the pipes but I've not got near to it yet.

The short answers to your questions are here:

a) I managed to get the pipes to go through the grommet after removing the old pipes and roof sensor wiring cables. No body panels were removed.

b) Our roof was stuck in the "up" position so we didn't have to lift it up manually. I made up a wooden support and at the appropriate moment I released the hydraulic pressure and the roof gently sat down on it without any drama.

c) I got the sealant out of the grommet by a laborious process of working it by hand until it came out.

And here's the longer answer ...

We have a 2013 California SE (T5), and all of the comments here refer to our van. I don't know how much would be relevant to earlier or later models (eg T6 Oceans).

Bear in mind that the failure in our pipe was next to the grommet, and it was in the pipe which gets pressurised to lower the roof. So the oil came out quite close to the grommet and I daresay it made the grommet / sealant fairly well covered in the oil, which may have helped in getting the sealant out of the grommet.

For background, it is my belief that the damage was caused by a repair at Breeze in Southampton in January in the same area of the roof. The van had been in Breeze in the autumn of 2019 for the cam belts to be changed and they spotted roof corrosion which eventually resulted in the roof being treated under warranty. Just before sending the van in for the roof work (which I am told is carried out in a specialist body shop somewhere and not at the dealer) we noticed that there was water ingress at the top of the A pillar which manifested itself as a wet roof lining and wet carpet under the drivers feet / pedals area.

After the van came back from the body shop the chaps in Breeze looked at the water ingress issue and told us that they had to fix a fault caused by a bodged repair by a previous owner. No further details but I understood that either the grommet or the small drain pipe had become blocked or disconnected or something. We have not had any further water ingress after they "fixed" it.

After this repair, the roof had been up (and down, obviously) twice before we found that it would not go down any more. I could hear the hydraulic oil bubbling and smell the oil and I found oil leaking at the front of the roof at the top of the A pillar - where the grommet is.

Breeze could not look at the van for 3 weeks and anyhow the roof was stuck in the up position and the van therefore not driveable without messing with the hydraulics. I was reluctant to let them charge me a 4 figure sum to give them the opportunity to mess up the van again. So I decided to tackle the job myself.

I removed the cab head lining which was one of the tricky parts of the job. The post by TripleBee (here: https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/as-promised-changing-the-electrohydraulic-roof-pump.33489/) was really helpful. He misses one or two key details though, including the laborious process of removing the fittings and especially the central control console. I had to remove the interior mirror, for example, which has two cables attached to it. The frame which the sliding roof locates into (sorry - I don't have the correct nomenclature) was probably the most difficult part to remove (and replace) because it is glued in place and also has a pop rivet at the rear of each side. There are other threads (such as this one: https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/how-to-remove-headlining-around-central-unit.34908/) which give more details of this. I did it with the roof up. It would be even more difficult to do it with the roof down, and the roof lining can't be completely removed without removing this frame.

As I mentioned, our roof was stuck in the up position. A thread on here somewhere (can't find it just now) recommends using an acro to get the roof up. My father in law is a retired builder and he just laughed and said that an acro is massive overkill, is very heavy and will make nice dents in the floor and the roof. The thread did mention spreading the load with plywood but father-in-law says you would need really thick plywood to be sure not to damage the van.

In the event I made a tee piece from some 2 x 2 timber (maybe 2.5m long) and some 9mm plywood at the top and bottom to spread the load. When I had to release the hydraulic pressure the roof rested gently (about 2/3 of the way up) on the support. I didn't try to move it too much but I got the feeling that it would be possible to manually push the roof up once the pressure was released. That might be a 2 person job.

The sealant was already looking like a bodge job after the work done in Southampton. I removed it by initially cutting it back carefully with a stanley knife to get the excess off and leave just a thin layer near to the cables and grommet. By working the grommet and cables / pipes (which were at least a bit oily) with my fingers I eventually (bit by bit) was able to get the sealant out of the grommet hole. When you order the pipes from VW they come in a pair, so I decided to replace both of them. After removing the pipes I cleaned up the inside of the grommet as best I could using a solvent (I used IPA or iso-propyl alcohol), with just the roof sensor cables left behind. If you are replacing the roof sensor cables then you will have an empty grommet hole and this will be easy.

You can get some sealant softener for use in bathrooms and I was tempted to try this at one point but I would worry about damage to paintwork etc.

That's probably enough for one posting and I hope it is useful for you. I have a ton of other tips for you if you decide to tackle this job yourself and I also have a mostly full bottle of the hydraulic oil. Good luck with it and feel free to ask any other questions you might think of.
Hi Wessexcamper, this is really useful and very much appreciated. Just in Breeze waiting to pick up Cali. Asked to have roof lining left off and have a couple of options to explore. Incredible frustrating and TBH not what I was expecting at breeze. ☹️
 

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