P&O in financial difficulty

[flying banana]

i had this happen to me 11 years ago with a shower of sh1t called 'Jarvis' . no 90 day consultation,no wages, pension frozen in the ppf and 10% robbed off it. alot of shouting by the RMT when the tv cameras and radio were there. but it still happened. for me the scenes of the RMT waving their banners and being in the news are all too familiar,the RMT will do nothing when it comes to an actual legal fight.
these voices saying 'it's illegal' and 'they can't do that' doesn't mean that they won't. good luck to the staff with that one. P & O are a disgrace , and so are Jarvis. Tossers who are happy to take profits but when times are hard they take it out on the staff.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Middle Eastern Capitalism.

Maybe in this example but another in my experience, some years back, was when I worked for a US-owned corporate whose management flew in and sacked a whole bunch of UK staff without realising the legal consequences (they could do it in the States, so it didn't occur to them they couldn't do it here). It took us - the UK management team - months to clear up the mess.

But UK businesses are just as capable of this, if they can get away with it. During the pandemic the "fire and rehire" practices of British Airways was described by the cross party Transport Committee as a calculated attempt to take advantage of the pandemic to cut jobs and weaken the terms and conditions of its remaining employees.

 

[calibusje]

Middle Eastern Capitalism.

& Russian…

 

[westfalia]

i had this happen to me 11 years ago with a shower of sh1t called 'Jarvis' . no 90 day consultation,no wages, pension frozen in the ppf and 10% robbed off it. alot of shouting by the RMT when the tv cameras and radio were there. but it still happened. for me the scenes of the RMT waving their banners and being in the news are all too familiar,the RMT will do nothing when it comes to an actual legal fight.
these voices saying 'it's illegal' and 'they can't do that' doesn't mean that they won't. good luck to the staff with that one. P & O are a disgrace , and so are Jarvis. Tossers who are happy to take profits but when times are hard they take it out on the staff.

Thats the Americanisation, the train was coming, its here now.
What to do? I dont know, nothing apart from protest, but that will
be banned soon Lol and how much does it really bring anyway.

 

[flying banana]

Thats the Americanisation, the train was coming, its here now.
What to do? I dont know, nothing apart from protest, but that will
be banned soon Lol and how much does it really bring anyway.

Saw grant shapps on news ranting on about it. Effing weasel. Never said what he was going to do about it though did he.my guess is nothing. Tosser

 

[Velma's Dad]

 

[vmaxkiddy]

There are some forum members with shares in P & O (to take advantage of discounted sailings) Wonder what their opinion is on the matter.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

There are some forum members with shares in P & O (to take advantage of discounted sailings) Wonder what their opinion is on the matter.

Principles or cash? Now there’s the dilemma....

 

[Cali Phillip]

The government saying it was an unacceptable practice, then doing nothing to protect workers.
I read an unconfirmed report that the French P&O workers kept their jobs, a French law prohibiting the practice.
I also read yesterday fire and rehire on poorer terms is also alive and well in HE sector to `Richmond on Thames college firing 127 lecturers with among the new contract benefits a loss of 13days holiday a year.

 

[BeagleMum]

The government saying it was an unacceptable practice, then doing nothing to protect workers.
I read an unconfirmed report that the French P&O workers kept their jobs, a French law prohibiting the practice.
I also read yesterday fire and rehire on poorer terms is also alive and well in HE sector to `Richmond on Thames college firing 127 lecturers with among the new contract benefits a loss of 13days holiday a year.

Fire and rehire is disgraceful, it’s been going on for a long time, it happened to me 15 years ago when I was a local government manager. Reduced pay band, poorer conditions of service. Accept the new contact or walk away not many are in a position to be able to walk away.

 

[Cali Phillip]

Fire and rehire is disgraceful, it’s been going on for a long time, it happened to me 15 years ago when I was a local government manager. Reduced pay band, poorer conditions of service. Accept the new contact or walk away not many are in a position to be able to walk away.

Think local government is still in crisis as it seems to always be.
Sounds like with P&O it was make a good profit to give to the share holders £250M ?

How much is a good profit or is more always better at any expense to the Environment or workers ?

 

[s2bear]

If it’s true, HOPEFULLY it eases the pain for those that were unceremoniously dumped.


P&O is set to pay a total of £36.5m to workers who were fired last week in a four-minute video call.
The company said that 575 of the 786 seafarers affected by the job cuts are expected to progress with the severance offer, which in some cases amounts to £170,000 per person, Sky News first reported.
The move, reportedly the largest compensation ever handed in the maritime sector, comes after news of P&O forcing to sign non-disclosure agreements emerged yesterday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dave Wickham]

Middle Eastern Capitalism.

No ALL capitalism. Unbridled capitalism (as that is what we have in this country) is a failed economic system, just like communism. You can tell its failed when the gap in wages between the stinking rich and the poorest workers is an abomination to mankind. Just look around you - food banks, child poverty whilst the 'captains' of industry walk away with eye-watering salaries and share deals worth millions.

 

[Velma's Dad]

No ALL capitalism. Unbridled capitalism (as that is what we have in this country) is a failed economic system, just like communism. You can tell its failed when the gap in wages between the stinking rich and the poorest workers is an abomination to mankind. Just look around you - food banks, child poverty whilst the 'captains' of industry walk away with eye-watering salaries and share deals worth millions.

I'd say that is broadly correct... although income inequality (eg top executive salaries) is only a symptom of the 'problem of capitalism': it's wealth inequality that's the real issue.

The reasons for that are when the rate of return on capital exceeds the economic growth rate, and there are no effective controls on inheritance. So inequalities increase generation by generation and are not self-correcting, progressing until a corrective shock occurs (the most recent being WW2). That's all superbly explained by the economic historian Thomas Piketty in his 'Capital in the Twenty-First Century'.

Back in my box.

 

[Dave Wickham]

I'd say that is broadly correct... although income inequality (eg top executive salaries) is only a symptom of the 'problem of capitalism': it's wealth inequality that's the real issue.

The reasons for that are when the rate of return on capital exceeds the economic growth rate, and there are no effective controls on inheritance. So inequalities increase generation by generation and are not self-correcting, progressing until a corrective shock occurs (the most recent being WW2). That's all superbly explained by the economic historian Thomas Piketty in his 'Capital in the Twenty-First Century'.

Back in my box.

There are controls on inheritance but unfortunately only effect the 'ordinary' middle classes - the very wealthy get round these rules easy enough......:

 

[Velma's Dad]

There are controls on inheritance but unfortunately only effect the 'ordinary' middle classes - the very wealthy get round these rules easy enough......:

While it's of course true that the most wealthy find numerous ways to avoid IHT, including offshoring assets, it's nevertheless an inconvenient fact that the bulk of intergenerational wealth transfers are 'middle class' ones. That's due to the inexorable increase in house values over the past 50 years, and the fact that when an average UK house (now worth about £350k) is inherited it will only usually result in a very small IHT bill relative to its accumulated capital appreciation.

That is illustrated by the fact that annual IHT receipts are less than 1/1000th (ie 0.1%) of the total value of UK housing stock, which has been growing at an average of 9% per year. Once you own property, you will very likely end up passing on the substantial part of the (un-earned) capital gain during your ownership to your heirs (usually your offspring, whether deserving or undeserving).

The people who end up at the bottom of the pile are those who can never afford to acquire property in the first place.

 

[Amarillo]

There are some forum members with shares in P & O (to take advantage of discounted sailings) Wonder what their opinion is on the matter.

Coincidentally, my father gifted me 600 P&O shares 3 weeks ago. He’s had them since 1973 when they were Townsend Thoresen.

The shares will give us 50% discount Dover Calais; 40% Hull Zeebrugge/ Rotterdam; 25% Cairnryan Larne and Liverpool Dublin.

I expect I will shamelessly use the concession and make the feeble excuse that I’m costing P&O money by using them rather than add to my profits as a shareholder.

 

[GrannyJen]

No ALL capitalism. Unbridled capitalism (as that is what we have in this country) is a failed economic system, just like communism. You can tell its failed when the gap in wages between the stinking rich and the poorest workers is an abomination to mankind. Just look around you - food banks, child poverty whilst the 'captains' of industry walk away with eye-watering salaries and share deals worth millions.

What would you propose instead?

 

[Ozzy Pete]

What would you propose instead?

In my twenties I was a shop steward for a large engineering company and as part of it we had I day a week in college. The lecturer there was the same person for Stewards and Management. He would say that in a perfect world communism was the only way stating “Fair shares for all”. But we are not in anyway near being in a perfect world and all the countries that in the past were Communist ie Russia and China are now closer to fascist. You are not allowed to have your own thoughts. The people in China actually believe that their leaders can do no wrong. Not quite sure about Russia.
Putin has stolen Billions from his country no different from any greedy dictator. The UK is no different with its greedy government.

My personal view is that you can run a country you truly love with compassion (Ukraine)..without stuffing your pockets.
Is money the route of all evil?

 

[soulstyledevon]

The systems broke. Environmental disaster goes hand in hand with Capitalism…

https://m.facebook.com/bbctwo/videos/george-monbiot-on-climate-breakdown-frankie-boyles-new-world-order/2212779702173409/

 

[Dave Wickham]

What would you propose instead?

A government run by people with morals and human dignity - an idealistic expectation perhaps but still worth wishing for. There are some countries that have achieved a somewhat fairer society by more open government - look at the Nordics for example, perhaps not utopia but a damn site better than the crap we have here in the UK. No doubt there will be a barrage of negative comments about this post because, lets face it, whatever one says there will be someone with a perverse pleasure in disagreeing.

 

[Dave Wickham]

While it's of course true that the most wealthy find numerous ways to avoid IHT, including offshoring assets, it's nevertheless an inconvenient fact that the bulk of intergenerational wealth transfers are 'middle class' ones. That's due to the inexorable increase in house values over the past 50 years, and the fact that when an average UK house (now worth about £350k) is inherited it will only usually result in a very small IHT bill relative to its accumulated capital appreciation.

That is illustrated by the fact that annual IHT receipts are less than 1/1000th (ie 0.1%) of the total value of UK housing stock, which has been growing at an average of 9% per year. Once you own property, you will very likely end up passing on the substantial part of the (un-earned) capital gain during your ownership to your heirs (usually your offspring, whether deserving or undeserving).

The people who end up at the bottom of the pile are those who can never afford to acquire property in the first place.

Perhaps, but many people didn't buy a home for it to become a wealth generating asset. I bought my current house 34 years ago as a place to raise a family and with good access to schools and local amenities. I don't care if its market value is £100,000 or £1,000,000 but I have the right to pass this to my family without handing over a sum of money to the government. The unsustainable growth in house prices is a false economy - a bubble waiting to burst. It would of course be entirely different if I had a second home for the purpose of asset growth.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Perhaps, but many people didn't buy a home for it to become a wealth generating asset. I bought my current house 34 years ago as a place to raise a family and with good access to schools and local amenities. I don't care if its market value is £100,000 or £1,000,000 but I have the right to pass this to my family without handing over a sum of money to the government. The unsustainable growth in house prices is a false economy - a bubble waiting to burst. It would of course be entirely different if I had a second home for the purpose of asset growth.

The bubble most lightly won’t burst, we have a limited supply of stock within the UK.
Not helped by large building companies sitting on development land, limiting supply to inflate house prices and anyone with a few extra pennies buying affordable property to Rent and Profit. Second home ownership should incur big tax penalties…!!!

Couple this with the lack of social housing, no wonder the housing sector is in the state it is.

We need to build council housing on a mass scale (similar to post war) with low rents and also remove the ability of, “the right to buy” to ensure we always have a stock of affordable housing for those who need it most.

Social housing works in Scandinavia. Where they’ve purpose built quality housing, that’s affordable and affordable long term.

 

[Joker 1299]

Is money the route of all evil?

No, the love of money is the route of all evil (to be pedantic)

 

[clarinetbcn]

What would you propose instead?

Regulated capitalism, to do away with “corporate socialism” where corporations keep profits, avoid paying taxes, and shift losses to the public treasury re: public bailout of private banks in the 2008-2009 collapse caused by deregulating banks, allowing them to engage in the same risky behavior that had been prevented by regulation since the 1929 crash. The worst case of corporate socialism that I know is Walmart in the US, the largest employer in the US after the U.S. military, a family of the wealthiest people on the planet who pay part of their employees’ minimum wage salaries with public subsidies. If you work full time at Walmart and are a family of four, your salary puts you below the poverty line and you receive public money to buy food.