Parking ticket

[MattBW]

From here:

http://www.knowyourparkingrights.org/Write/Documents/KYPR-consumer%20guide-November-2014-web-version.pdf

Parking in a privately owned or managed car park Private off-street parking is generally governed by the law of contract. If you park in a private off-street area and do not adhere to the rules the operators have advertised on local signs and notices, you may be issued with a Parking Charge Notice. An Approved Operator will give you time to assess the advertised rules, known as terms and conditions, and you are free to leave the parking area if you disagree with them. If you stay then you will have legally agreed to abide by them. Appealing a ticket is possible only if the private operator is registered with an ATA and the car park is in England or Wales. Private parking operators who are members of the BPA scheme will tell you about Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA). Approved operator schemes accredited by the DVLA, such as the BPA’s, must abide by their relevant Code of Practice and are able to request information about the Registered Keeper from the DVLA. Other operators may not have a Code of Practice and the DVLA is unlikely to supply any information. If you believe that a private parking operator is in breach of the terms of its code, contact the respective ATA and ask them to investigate.

 

[Amarillo]

Name and shame the pub?

Eden Park Hotel and Toby Carvery.

Clare had been playing her flute in a charity concert nearby with Bromley Concert Band. After the concert she drove to the pub with others for a drink and chat before going home.

I think she had her mum and stepdad plus her stepdad’s euphonium, plus music and music stands in Amarillo. I was at home babysitting.

 

[Loz]

Our friends had the same issue, even without a receipt they had a card transaction from the establishment and challenged the ticket and said they had proof of custom and demanded the ticket be rescinded and never heard anything again.
Their next response was to say, "we have proof or custom" and if you want to see it, we suggest you take us to court but didn't need to move to that stage,

 

[Amarillo]

We have appealed on two grounds.

1. The placement of the private car park sign behind the local authority parking restriction 8am to 6.30pm was misleading to a reasonable person without showing time restrictions on that parking sign.

2. Clare was a customer of the pub and entitled to park in the pub car park with a refund for any parking charge. Not buying a ticket and then receiving a refund was an honest mistake and reasonable under the circumstances of it being dark with parking signage unlit.

 

[Jason wallace]

Went through a case a couple of months ago when we picked up a PCN from one of these companies.

A local Costa (in a converted pub) with signage directing to their parking, but failed to tell their customer that they in fact only had a small number of spaces, for months the whole car park was being used. The Landlord then installed CCTV/and no parking signs run by a parking company, Costa new but didn't bother to warn customers or mark their bays. Result, hundreds of PCN through the post to local users (ex users as the franchisee basically said not my problem).

If they are part of the BPA then make sure you do appeal within the required time frame, if they reject they should provide a POPLA code which gives you a route to appeal this rejection. Make sure you do appeal to them as it seems lots of the private parking companies give up at this point as they actually get charged for this appeal.

Its also worth remembering that Private Parking Companies cannot enforce payment unless they take you to court and its only then do you have to pay. However they will send increasingly threatening letters. The one we were involved with claimed to have passed ours to a dept recovery company, a quick check on companies house indicated this company was in fact based in the same office as the parking company and had the same directors.

 

[Loz]

The one we were involved with claimed to have passed ours to a dept recovery company, a quick check on companies house indicated this company was in fact based in the same office as the parking company and had the same directors.

Shysters the lot of em...

 

[Stoneybroke]

I think local councils listen and are sympathetic if there's grounds for dispute but private firms are a different story... it's their income from honest mistakes like this that they will uphold... do they have the same legal clout or do they have to pursue fines through the court system if contested?

All private land parking is based on contract law. The is no law governing how private parking restrictions are displayed, but there is a law allowing companies to access DVLA records to pursue the registered keeper. These companies must abide by British Parking Association code of practice in order to access DVLA.
Because no law has been broken, the firms 'enforce' through threats of civil court action, adding costs all the time. The action is for an unpaid debt that you agreed to pay if you didn't abide by their T&C's which form the contract.
Some firms are actively taking lots of folks to court, others aren't.
You need to check all the signs on the way in, and between the parking space and the pub. Also the signs in the pub.
If the photo is the only obvious signs them you may try to claim that their signs are poorly placed and misleading, hence the contract is void.
Experience says that they will reject your appeal.
ANPR control of private parking had turned into a cash cow and is now at the level of cowboys that we saw with the clampers some years ago. Some of those went to jail because of their methods, which were found to be blackmail, these firms are getting away with very dubious practices which few people are willing to challenge as individuals.
Their tactics should form a "Super Complaint" from the AA or RAC...

 

[soulstyledevon]

There is a pub we use at lunchtime with a similar set up.
Inside the pub on the bar is a screen where you type in your reg no. Job done.
No number typed in then expect a fine.

We have a pub in our town the same.
But have another pub where you must buy something and put the ticket and reg into the machine. Then there’s the supermarket. You don’t need a ticket for less than 30mins, but over you insert your receipt and reg into the machine and get 2hrs free. All camera controlled...

3 different systems all in a small town, plus ticket machines on top.
It all gets a bit confusing.

There should be a standardised format.

 

[Doorbundle]

Go to the pub manager/landlord/lady/non binary/non gender specific facility manager, politely explain your situation, show bill if for food etc, - They may make favourable representations to their parking company. This worked at Morrisons Malvern when Mrs Doorbundle overstayed their limit by 20 mins when shopping for a neighbour. Have you ever tried shopping for someone else? Parking Eye £80 penalty - It's not a Fine - Was rescinded, with apologies.

 

[Amarillo]

Go to the pub manager/landlord/lady/non binary/non gender specific facility manager, politely explain your situation, show bill if for food etc, - They may make favourable representations to their parking company. This worked at Morrisons Malvern when Mrs Doorbundle overstayed their limit by 20 mins when shopping for a neighbour. Have you ever tried shopping for someone else. Parking Eye £80 penalty - It's not a Fine - Was rescinded, with apologies.

I think that will be our next step if our representations are ignored. The parking company is a client of the pub, and the last thing Toby Carvery will be wanting to do is alienate their customers.

 

[motacyclist]

Which? Article on this subject here

Parking fines: your questions answered – Which? Conversation

Have you ever had a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) that you feel was unfair? Do you know how to challenge or appeal it? We’ve rounded up your questions.

conversation.which.co.uk

 

[bernie]

If it's a private site, just ignore it. They can't enforce it. Many are con merchants

 

[LemonDrop]

What a pain @Amarillo. We got caught out in exactly the same circumstances. We complained to the restaurant that the signage was unclear in the car park and they gave us a credit to spend with them for the amount of the parking ticket. This was an acceptable solution as it meant we didn't have to deal with the hassle of contesting it and we would have eaten there again anyway.

But £85 is a lot to spend in the pub. Have you read this? https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/ You would definitely have a good case to contest it. Good luck!

 

[AlanC]

Due to the Data Protection Act DVLA will only inform the parking company of your name and address if they are members of the British Parking Association (BPA) or the International Parking Community (IPC). Although it is difficult to see on your photo, Local Parking Services (LPS, https://www.localparkingsecurity.co.uk/about/) are not listed on either organisation's site and do not state on their website that they are members of either organisation. If push came to shove, doubt this charge notice would stand up in a court .

Alan

 

[AlanC]

Correction to the above, have just found LPS on another list on the BPA site. They are members of that organisation.

British Parking Association's Approved Operators

www.britishparking.co.uk

Sorry to mislead you.

Alan

 

[soulstyledevon]

Due to the Data Protection Act DVLA will only inform the parking company of your name and address if they are members of the British Parking Association (BPA) or the International Parking Community (IPC). Although it is difficult to see on your photo, Local Parking Services (LPS, https://www.localparkingsecurity.co.uk/about/) are not listed on either organisation's site and do not state on their website that they are members of either organisation. If push came to shove, doubt this charge notice would stand up in a court .

Alan

Isn’t it maddening with all the GDPR stuff. The DVLA can still sell your details to the highest bidder...???

 

[Stoneybroke]

Excellent thread for this situation...

NTD from LPS (Local Parking Security Ltd)

Driver suffered a flat tyre and had to abandon the car in the closest car park.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com

Looks like the same cowboys too.

 

[PeteS]

These parking companies are on the increase. A hotel that I stay at a lot has introduced a private company to police there car park. I colleague got a ticket but the hotel supported his case that the ticket was voided.
It is worth contacting the pub as they may support your case as at the end of the day it was a honest mistake.
A car park in Southampton was badged as free parking for 1 hour. I assumed the people widening to get a ticket were going to me more than an hour but everyone must display a ticket. I was lucky as the parking attendant had not got to me before I left.
All these private parking companies seem to have difference rules, signage which makes it confusing and increased profits for them.
Good luck with your parking fine look on the internet for appealing against parking fines that may help.

 

[Amarillo]

We have now checked, and Clare paid in the pub on her bank card so we can prove she was a customer.

I do understand the frustration of private landowners and the scourge of errant motorists. I own two of a block of eighteen flats next to Grove Park railway station. People routinely use our private forecourt as a dropping off point or for local shopping; and even sometimes all day by commuters into London. Using a private driveway as public parking is selfish and bad manners.

 

[Loz]

Pull up post fixes that.. charge your own release fee..

 

[Amarillo]

Pull up post fixes that.. charge your own release fee..

We have a gate for the forecourt entrance and exit. Each resident has a key, but it is a faff to unlock and lock each time one of the eighteen or their visitors arrives or departs.

 

[Amarillo]

Response

I can confirm the following:
 The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR). Cameras capture an
image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay on site.
 The car park in question is on private land and upon entering such land vehicles are subject to
the terms and conditions of parking as shown on the signage. The signage quite clearly states
that if your vehicle is in breach of the terms and conditions of the car park then a Parking
Charge Notice will be issued.
 On entry to private land it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure that
your vehicle has been correctly parked. Any vehicles found not adhering to the signage will be
issued with a Parking Charge Notice.
 I note you state the driver was a customer on the day of issue, however no documentation has
been provided to support that statement.
 Please be advised, if you do visit the site you are required to enter your full and correct vehicle
registration via the console located on the premises.
 Please note that charges apply at all times, as clearly displayed on the signage on site.
 The Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled on this occasion, however any further Parking
Charge Notices issued for the same reasons will not be cancelled. It is the driver’s responsibility
to ensure the vehicle is parked in accordance with the terms and conditions of the car park.

A fair result - PCN cancelled and a warning issued. The landowner wants the car park for the exclusive use of their customers and not as a cash cow.

 

[Loz]

They have exactly the same "Log your VRN on the tablet by the till" in a local cafe near us and loads of customers have been caught out.

Good result btw.