Potential new buyer.

[boofont]

Firstly, let me quickly say hello... hello!

I wondered if any of you might like to give some advice, opinions etc as my wife and I try and navigate our way to a campervan through a very wide and ranging market!

We've discussed buying a camper several times over the years, we really like the idea of just having a camper sat on the drive and being able to just go basically anywhere, the only limitation is perhaps your imagination! But for the main, the discussions were just pipe dreams. However, things have changed a bit for us since we got our lovely Lab Lucy. We went on a summer holiday for two weeks in July and is was heartbreaking to say goodbye to her at the kennels. So, we are now very much committed to a camper so she can come with is, along with our 7 year old son. Sounds perfect!

This is where we are at the moment. Now, I really fancy a California, but there's no doubt they're pricey. So much so it makes you have to consider other options, which shall we say fall in to two categories. Firstly, a VW 3rd party conversion, and secondly, another manufacturer altogether.

Let's me start with a VW California then. I saw the new price and was taken aback, it's serious money! So I then started looking at used, but even then, a fair price. So much so that in some ways it makes more sense to buy new. In fact, I don't think I know of a vehicle that holds it value so well! A VW conversion is also serious money, whereas the other ones perhaps not so.

All this doesn't make things easy for us to choose, do we buy a new California or used (I guess we can afford both but would need to save a little bit more for the new one), go for a conversion either new or used, or buy another brand? I guess I'm drawn to a VW having had a couple of Golfs and always liked the brand, and the California would be my personal first choice, but my wife isn't sucked in to all the VW thing so much and wouldn't be so bothered.

So here's where you all come in. In a nutshell, without sounding too direct, why should I buy a California over anything else? And what's your thoughts on new over used (I get the basics of course, you get to choose the colour ets etc, but I'm looking in to it a bit deeper than that, depreciation, after sales care etc). I'd just be really interested to hear your thoughts and views as I'm sure you have all been where I am now. Be really nice to hear from you, secretly, I want a new California but just need to justify the expense!

Finally, I will add that we would intend to keep her for a fair period of time, we're not one to change our car every three years etc. Perhaps this makes the large tag on the California a bit more manageable.

Look forward to hearing from you and sorry for such a lengthy first post!

 

[Hotel California]

Hi and welcome from Belgium ,
Much to read as first post .....

I also been wondering sevral years how it be to own/experience a Cali and imo. waited to long before buying onde .

But now these days i would not pay that amount of money on a used or even a new T5 Cali as the T6 is now beeing close to actually beeing deliverd.
You say having the intention keeping it long time so try go for aT6 Cali , will cost more but will pay off in long terms having the T6 over a T5 .
Also the euro 6 engine got some pro's thinking longterm.
You probaly get nearly the same discount on a T6 than a T5 .

 

[marshian70]

We went through the same conundrum. Having spent many hours looking at conversions, many of which are of dubious quality, and none of which quite do what the Cali does (table in door, chairs in boot etc), went for a 5 year old Cali. No regrets - been totally reliable and looks almost as good as a brand new one. From a financial perspective, whilst we spent more than we had intended to on a camper, I think in the long run it will work out cheaper than a conversion, but compared to new we still saved a significant amount of cash. If you are not certain its for you, why spend £50k plus on new. Despite the Calis glacial depreciation it will always lose most at the start if it's life.

 

[Meoncoast]

Welcome to considering Camper van ownership

California over other VW campers for me it was the following

+ points.
All under one roof. ie 3 year warranty all at the same place for camping equipment repair and van repair we had a hinge on cooker break if it was a 3rd party conversion we looked at one in Scotland how would it been repaired living in Southampton under warranty.
We like the materials the cupboards are made of in the California
We liked the engine output on the California compared to many conversions
The price if you spec up a van than add the conversion you will not be far behind the Cali price those that come out a fair bit cheaper the van will be much lower spec and often lower powered.
We also liked the California as the walls were not carpeted as in many conversions
We also were worried on some conversions (not all) about warranty on VW parts if 3rd party had causes an issue.

But at the end of the day a camper makes a great day van and a holiday adventure your family will loved it my childhood memories are more for the camper holidays than tent holidays

 

[CALI FATE]

Consider the T6 Beach with a parking heater - my main justification is that i will use it as my daily car to replace my ageing SMAX. I need a big car for family, transporting bikes and sleeping in occasionally. With the addition of a clever slide in kitchen pod and a few euro crates the Beach will convert quickly into a full function camper. More useful / cheaper to run / less to go wrong / much less ££ / better resale .......... and you can have yellow.

 

[WelshGas]

!. When you go away, Do you want to park with the cars or the HGV's? If cars then Campervan.
2. If you want a VW Conversion with the same vehicle and camping accessories, same milage etc: then you will be paying virtually the same money, with the one disadvantage that, whatever you and other conversion owners might think, the VW California will have a significant resale premium over a conversion.
3. Is it going to be an everyday vehicle or just high days and holidays?
4. Do you intend to take the vehicle abroad or just the UK?
5. Do you intend to use the vehicle in ALL seasons, summer and winter?

If UK only, Summer only and High days and Holidays then get a Conversion from a good company. If you keep it long enough then the greater depreciation will be less significant over a prolonged time.

If you intend to roam Europe or further, Summer or Winter, and don't let it sit on the drive between adventures then the California - T6 or T5, Beach or SE, whichever fits your lifestyle or pocket.

Just my personal thoughts.

Whatever you decide - Do IT!!!!!!!!

 

[JohnnyP]

Hello Boofont,

I went through a very similar thought process about different types of camper van and I looked at many 3rd party converters. What influenced my decision to go for a Cali was the better converters are the same or very similar price to a Cali. If they were cheaper the van was an inferior spec and if the van was as good as a Cali or better (LWB for example) then they were more expensive. In the end even the best conversions don't seem to have some key features such as double glazing (reduces condensation etc). As mentioned above VW obviously have a Euopean wide service network should something go wrong.

New vs old, there are a lot of 2nd hand Calis out there in excellent condition (not all though) and this would have been my choice other than the timing for us to buy one was always going to be 2016 and this has given us the time to save up to afford a new one. I was offered ax demo T5 with 250 miles in Aug but I have ordered a T6 with a better spec for a little less than the T5. Ultimately I don't think ere is much difference between a new or used van when it comes to the fun, freedom and experiences to be had. If the other factors had been different for us I would definitely have gone for a used van to enjoy this year so this choice came down to personal circumstances for us.

If you enjoy camping and exploring and can afford the eye watering cost of a Cali then I don't think you can go wrong by going for it new or used.

 

[Neilgbj]

Same considerations..... We hired a Cali and that decided things for us. There some good conversions but none as good as the Cali in our view, more space, better storage, both front seats turn round ( lots of conversions claim they do....they don't!) , engine power...the list goes on but of course just our opinion....

Nonsense that you only need a Cali if you go abroad....we will but have used ours extensively in the UK....it's perfect....

New or used....we were looking at used but got a good deal on new to our spec but would have bought used.....

It's a lot of money but a great lifestyle choice .....try hiring one !

 

[2into1]

+1 to hire one first.
If you are spending so much it has to be a Cali, but before you get lost in the detail, actually try one and see if it suits you in real life.
Plenty get sold after 1 trip.

 

[WelshGas]

[QUOTE="

Nonsense that you only need a Cali if you go abroad....we will but have used ours extensively in the UK....it's perfect....

[/QUOTE]

I disagree. If you are abroad and have problems with the habitation equipment, roof, electrics etc: at least with a California there is the VW network to support you. With a Conversion ? Don't think you would get many VW Dealerships or otherwise agreeing to, or able to, sort it out so that you can continue your holiday. But then thats your choice.
Using a California back home in the UK is fine, but then if finances are a constraint and you have a similar habitation problem at least the Converter is in the same country.

Remember, the California is built and sold for the European market. UK based conversions are not.

 

[2into1]

Don't agree with WelshGas on this one (as we go off down this 'European use' tangent).

Almost all non-vw conversions:
(i) use propriety equipment which is available in many European Countries
(ii) electronic problems can be diagnosed with a simple multimeter, and fixed with a bit of wire and insulating tape (to get you home)
(iii) most mechanical problems can be diagnosed with a torch and fixed with a screwdriver and a hammer.

The biggest failing of the Cali (as a Camping vehicle that is often used miles away from main dealers) is that VW have overcomplicated something that didn't need to be so.

 

[WelshGas]

Don't agree with WelshGas on this one (as we go off down this 'European use' tangent).

Almost all non-vw conversions:
(i) use propriety equipment which is available in many European Countries
(ii) electronic problems can be diagnosed with a simple multimeter, and fixed with a bit of wire and insulating tape (to get you home)
(iii) most mechanical problems can be diagnosed with a torch and fixed with a screwdriver and a hammer.

The biggest failing of the Cali (as a Camping vehicle that is often used miles away from main dealers) is that VW have overcomplicated something that didn't need to be so.

If you build your own Conversion then I Agree with you. If you didn't and are not mechanically minded then that is a problem. And I was not talking about the base vehicle but the Habitation equipment. roof and electrics.

 

[2into1]

And I was not talking about the base vehicle but the Habitation equipment. roof and electrics.

This the exactly the area I was talking about. 2 weeks ago I helped someone with a SCA roof that wouldn't 'catch' on closing. With a bit of observation, working out what was meant to happen, we quickly adjusted a cable and it was sorted, and I was rewarded with a pint! He went on to enjoy his holiday. If it happens again, he knows how to fix it.

On a Cali, if 'the computer says no', then you are b*ggered, and best hope is to get it to a VW dealer and wait for Germany to advise. Holiday probably over.

 

[WelshGas]

And if you hadn't been around?

 

[Leo K]

+1 to hire one first.
If you are spending so much it has to be a Cali, but before you get lost in the detail, actually try one and see if it suits you in real life.
Plenty get sold after 1 trip.

The first week we just hated the thing. It suddenly seemed so much smaller than in the showroom and everyday something broke down. We certainly would not have bought it then. But after a month or so we started to get the hang of it and learned to enjoy camping 'california'-style.

And yet, after four seasons we are thinking of a 5.40 m van with a fixed bed and a toilet. Tough decision.

 

[Bellesca]

Returning to the topic......
We too looked at all the options and eventually opted to buy new. As mentioned in previous posts...by the time we added all the extras to a conversion it was practically the same price as a new Cali.
Basically it all depends on how you use it. A big engine and 4wd was essential for us but everyone has different requirements. Also your ability to do a bit of maintenance or be completely reliant on the professionals can influence your decision
Good luck. You won't regret getting a campervan (whatever version)

 

[boofont]

Thanks guys, some great input, and a bit a of a debate, (we all love a bit of that don't we? ).

A very good point mentioned about issues with the conversion side of things on a converted van. We are up in the north of Scotland so there's no doubt if we went down this road the camper would be bought a fair few miles away, maybe in to the multiple hundreds. This really would make any warranty issues a nightmare.

I see all the points raised about travelling in Europe, it is something we would like to do. I would love to travel around Scandinavia for example, simply stunning! I can also see it being used in winter, an example being a weekend in Cairngorm skiing. So the Cali is looking good on that point, and I never realised it had double glazing, that's a good "selling" point for the long haired general who makes the decisions in our house, she doesn't like to be cold!

I did look at hiring but again, based on where we live to actually hire a Cali is not easy. I think the nearest one is Edinburgh. That's 200 miles away.

Happy to heat anymore thoughts though please. Cheers!

 

[GrannyJen]

I have looked long and hard at conversions twice. I do not share the "getting things repaired" argument as I think the points made by Peter, T4, are valid. Also many conversions are of excellent quality.

Both times it came down heads for the California as I knew exactly what I was getting and I could share my experiences with hundreds of people who have exactly the same van.

Looking at conversions it is quite simple when looking at "stock" items, normally on a low powered, low cost manual gearbox VW derivative, and at first glance they do make the Cali seem very expensive.

The complications start when you decide that is "not what I want"

"I want...... A bigger engine, DSG, A heater, an upstairs bed, a boot, perhaps 4WD, ..................." and the list goes on and on and trying to price it up from half a dozen converters each offering different combinations becomes a nightmare.

Second time around, with 100 plus nights experience, I produced a list of what I know I want and sent it off to the converters that I felt I would have confidence in. When the replies came back, all two of them, it was cheaper, easier and far more certain for me to just toddle off to my local VW dealer and say "sell us a van mate....".

I also looked at a big white box, having owned one once before. Again great when looking at the bog standard fiat ducato manual, low power alternatives, but again, I want more power, Automatic or similar, able to navigate small roads with no big nervous breakdowns on route, 12 month use so must be equipped for it, and very quickly shook my head. A camper can be a cramped, limited facility experience but it's cosy, a solid vehicle, can go anywhere in any weather, as I have experienced.

In summary: I would not discount conversions, there are some excellent examples around the place. I went with the California because there are 50,000 of them out there, faults and fixes well known, a reservoir of good practical advice from users, I know what I am getting and I know from the experiences of others what it can do. We are talking a lot of money, too much for a punt in the dark.

 

[2into1]

I'd still buy a Cali over a conversion (as I said at 9.32am) but I got a bit sidetracked around lunchtime around the practicalities of fixing a non Cali in Europe. I rate the Cali but wish it was simpler.
So, (i) Hire a Cali, (ii) assume your experience will improve with practice (as Leo K pointed out), (iii) Buy a Cali !

 

[WelshGas]

I didn't mean to upset anyone, but a work colleague had a Conversion and whilst touring in Europe lost all 12v power from the Leisure battery. No fridge, water or lights. The holiday was aborted because the Holiday Insurance couldn't find anyone willing to even look at the vehicle let alone fix it. On return he bought a second hand SE. Following year, in Europe, he lost the Mains supply on the SE . He was due to go on a 4 day walk in the Alps with wife and son staying on the campsite. His wife didn't drive abroad so couldn't keep the batteries charged by driving. Call to Travel Insurance. They arranged local VW garage to visit. They checked the electrics, he had already checked the EHU cable and campsite supply. They changed the RCD by the gas cylinder, 24 hrs later not having the part in stock. So I still maintain the California habitation equipment is more likely to be sorted by a VW Dealership abroad than a Conversion. Obviously if you are mechanically minded or undertake your own conversion then there is no problem. The old fashioned , investigative experienced mechanic are very few and difficult to find, even more so abroad.

 

[boofont]

I have looked long and hard at conversions twice. I do not share the "getting things repaired" argument as I think the points made by Peter, T4, are valid. Also many conversions are of excellent quality.

I'm sure you're right Jen, and of course I am not in a position to say from experience (yet!) about a camper, but I bought my current Golf new and it had to go back to the dealer at least three times under warranty. So I can see the point about a conversion. Let's just say the fridge (or whatever on the conversion side of things) beaks down, not so bad if you're local, but consider that I live 200 miles north of Glasgow and Edinburgh, and I might have bought the conversion from eve further south, it's not so simple as to pop down one afternoon when I'm free. I think where I live has to be considered with regard to this point. For the record by the way, my nearest VW commercial dealer is Aberdeen, that's still around 70 miles away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting a conversion or suggesting the quality is rubbish, just that my location adds and extra layer to consider, and it's something I hadn't thought about.

 

[GrannyJen]

I'm sure you're right Jen, and of course I am not in a position to say from experience (yet!) about a camper, but I bought my current Golf new and it had to go back to the dealer at least three times under warranty. So I can see the point about a conversion. Let's just say the fridge (or whatever on the conversion side of things) beaks down, not so bad if you're local, but consider that I live 200 miles north of Glasgow and Edinburgh, and I might have bought the conversion from eve further south, it's not so simple as to pop down one afternoon when I'm free. I think where I live has to be considered with regard to this point. For the record by the way, my nearest VW commercial dealer is Aberdeen, that's still around 70 miles away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting a conversion or suggesting the quality is rubbish, just that my location adds and extra layer to consider, and it's something I hadn't thought about.

I had a really bad day once,

Crashed over something hard and sharp on the Drumbeg road Northwest of Ullapool and shredded two tyres. VW Assist (or the AA) had me on the road again by early afternoon, time enough to get to Lossiemouth. On the way though an amber oil light came on, sinking feeling - had I damaged something underneath and was losing oil.

There is a VW dealer in Elgin, Car not commercial, but as it was a "VW branded" product they looked after me, really could not have been more accommodating ...

Especially when they asked "when did you last top the oil up"..... "top the oil up? How do I do that ........"

it seems that after around 15k miles it is normal to use a bit of oil

 

[boofont]

There is a VW dealer in Elgin, Car not commercial, but as it was a "VW branded" product they looked after me, really could not have been more accommodating.

That'll be Hawco's, where my Golf goes, I live in Elgin. Small world!

 

[LowMan]

I have looked long and hard at conversions twice. I do not share the "getting things repaired" argument as I think the points made by Peter, T4, are valid. Also many conversions are of excellent quality.

Both times it came down heads for the California as I knew exactly what I was getting and I could share my experiences with hundreds of people who have exactly the same van.

Looking at conversions it is quite simple when looking at "stock" items, normally on a low powered, low cost manual gearbox VW derivative, and at first glance they do make the Cali seem very expensive.

The complications start when you decide that is "not what I want"

"I want...... A bigger engine, DSG, A heater, an upstairs bed, a boot, perhaps 4WD, ..................." and the list goes on and on and trying to price it up from half a dozen converters each offering different combinations becomes a nightmare.

Second time around, with 100 plus nights experience, I produced a list of what I know I want and sent it off to the converters that I felt I would have confidence in. When the replies came back, all two of them, it was cheaper, easier and far more certain for me to just toddle off to my local VW dealer and say "sell us a van mate....".

I also looked at a big white box, having owned one once before. Again great when looking at the bog standard fiat ducato manual, low power alternatives, but again, I want more power, Automatic or similar, able to navigate small roads with no big nervous breakdowns on route, 12 month use so must be equipped for it, and very quickly shook my head. A camper can be a cramped, limited facility experience but it's cosy, a solid vehicle, can go anywhere in any weather, as I have experienced.

In summary: I would not discount conversions, there are some excellent examples around the place. I went with the California because there are 50,000 of them out there, faults and fixes well known, a reservoir of good practical advice from users, I know what I am getting and I know from the experiences of others what it can do. We are talking a lot of money, too much for a punt in the dark.

I think Jen sums up my own thoughts on this perfectly. Owning a Cali was a bit of a fluke for us. We went along to a, very good, converter to talk about specs. By the time we priced up all the options we were looking for, the price was looking pretty steep.

As luck would have it, in the corner of their forecourt, they happened to have a Cali they were selling for a friend.

We took a look at it as the price compared favourably with the conversion spec we were looking for.

Should say, we didn't buy the one they had, but it convinced us the Cali was for us, and the rest, as they say, is history.......

Good luck with your decision.

 

[shudycamps]

I had a VW Campervan when I lived in Germany during the 70s and loved her then and aways wanted another. Fast forward to retirement and a new T5 California and baby, I've come home. We adore ZuluCampi and take 6 dogs with us when we go. The camping world has changed over 40yrs and it's wonderful. Best money ever spent. She is sitting on the drive waiting for the husband to build a carport over her. The next big trip is mid march where we will meet up with friends and I am counting the days.