Prices of used vans

[Route66]

I’ve been reading this forum for a while, but this is my first post. I’m looking at buying a used California and just wondering whether the listing prices on this site (and others) are realistic, or whether deals end up getting done much below these prices.

For example, 2012 to 2015 T5s currently seem to consistently be in £35 - 42k range. Are they actually selling at the listed prices?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[WelshGas]

I’ve been reading this forum for a while, but this is my first post. I’m looking at buying a used California and just wondering whether the listing prices on this site (and others) are realistic, or whether deals end up getting done much below these prices.

For example, 2012 to 2015 T5s currently seem to consistently be in £35 - 42k range. Are they actually selling at the listed prices?

Thanks,
Mike

Very, very close.

 

[Route66]

Thanks WelshGas - in which case, they seem to pretty depreciation proof, which bodes well for re-sale at some point in the future. Any tips on which models tend to hold their value better - DSG/ Manual, 180/140, etc?

 

[2into1]

As vehicles get older, I think simplicity tends to win out. So single turbo 140 over twin turbo 180. Even Beach vs Ocean/SE.
DSG boxes seem very reliable and may buck that trend as they seem very suited (and popular) to these vans.
Once you are set up and camping, they are all the same. (Putting aside the Beach / Ocean debate).

 

[Elmo3]

The prices on here are all over the place. You’ll soon recognise the ones which are priced correctly, they sell pretty quickly. Over priced ones sit until a couple of price reductions. The T5’s puzzle me. They are quite old now with no warranty and often for sale for what they would have cost new. Crazy. Completely avoid the 180 engine, even if it seem OK there’s no point carrying that level of risk. Buy a correctly priced T6 (150 is best for long term) for literally a few grand more (nothing in the scheme of things), with balance of VW warranty and Euro 6 engine which gives you a fighting chance against the anti diesel regimes.

Edited to add, I need to update my profile as I’ve recently sold the T6. It sold in a week for asking price because it was the best value available in the market. Others were asking £3K more for the same van and took weeks to shift, no doubt for similar money in the end. You’ll soon recognise who is on the money and who is kite flying.

 

[larrylamb]

T4,T5,T5.1,T6 and very soon T6.1 are all good vehicles and have slow depreciation, usually well looked after. It comes down to your budget ultimately as to which one you choose. The camper side of things hasn't changed much through the years.

 

[MattBW]

I must admit I have never seen many regular vehicles hold their value like the Cali. I bought mine as a demo at a very good price and after several years the second hand price aren't far off what I paid. It's kind of insane. It's frustrating if you are trying to buy but reassuring that you can probably use it for a year without losing anything significant.

I think the prices have held because the new T6 are quite a bit more expensive than the T5 was.

If you are looking for a T6 be aware some of the early ones were still Euro 5. Not a big issue but worth knowing about in case Euro 6 is important to you. The above advice is good.

In 2010/2011 had some issues with engines burning oil and can become a cash sink if not careful.

 

[pjm-84]

The prices have held due to the increase in the current pricing. Similarly, I added approx 8k worth of extras to mine so comparing like with like can be difficult.

 

[Amarillo]

I must admit I have never seen many regular vehicles hold their value like the Cali. I bought mine as a demo at a very good price and after several years the second hand price aren't far off what I paid. It's kind of insane. It's frustrating if you are trying to buy but reassuring that you can probably use it for a year without losing anything significant.

I’ve just checked the price of a replacement Beach with more or less the same options as the one we have. It comes to ~£56,000. Assuming we could negotiate the same 14% discount, that’s £48,000.

I reckon we could sell our 17 plate van with 47,000 miles for £30-35,000. (We buy any car offer £28,500).

On that basis it will have cost us £18-13,000 (say £15,500) over 28 months, over £6,500 per year or 33p per mile (excluding fuel, insurance and maintenance). That is not cheap.

 

[larrylamb]

I’ve just checked the price of a replacement Beach with more or less the same options as the one we have. It comes to ~£56,000. Assuming we could negotiate the same 14% discount, that’s £48,000.

I reckon we could sell our 17 plate van with 47,000 miles for £30-35,000. (We buy any car offer £28,500).

On that basis it will have cost us £18-13,000 (say £15,500) over 28 months, over £6,500 per year or 33p per mile (excluding fuel, insurance and maintenance). That is not cheap.

Cost to replace is different to depreciation costs on your Beach, how much has it cost if you just sold it? 23-24k miles a year is well above average also so your Beach would fetch more with a mileage of 20-30k.

 

[vwsween]

OK, so to do this over the longer term and allowing for inflation mine is as follows -
2006 se cost then including options £38k
reasonable value now £22k
you might think that is 42% depreciation over 13 years - great
RPI index moved from 198 to 289 over those 13 years so the current value of £22k is only worth £15k at 2006 prices.
that's 60% depreciation over 13 years and 130,000 miles. - still great and still 36mpg on a 174hp 3ton van.

 

[Borris]

The prices asked on here and anywhere else for that matter are usually realistic if they sell quickly and unrealistic if they don't. The only way to judge whether the price being asked is about right is to do a survey of as many Calis for sale as possible. Make a note of the year, condition, service history, options, mileage and whether it's a private or trade sale. Use Auto trader, VW Commercial, private ads and of course this forum to judge. You should quickly start to see what is an acceptable price and what isn't. Don't be tempted to use the various car price guides as they don't seem to be anywhere near accurate.

Good luck. The right van is out there somewhere, waiting for you.

 

[Amarillo]

Cost to replace is different to depreciation costs on your Beach, how much has it cost if you just sold it? 23-24k miles a year is well above average also so your Beach would fetch more with a mileage of 20-30k.

We paid £42,222. But that information is particularly useless when managing a household budget. I want to know how much the vehicle is costing me, and for that I need to know how much it will cost me to revert to the position we were in on 1 March 2017, i.e. with a brand new van, and for that I need to know the replacement cost not the purchase price. Adding accountancy depreciation to the current value would leave us about £6,000 short for a new van.

 

[Route66]

Thanks all for the helpful replies. I’m not sure I’ve seen any T6 Oceans for only a few £k more than T5s - usually these are in the high £40ks. The only one that I remember seeing in this territory is the £43k one that A1 Campers currently have listed on this site, but has now been sold. Are there T6 Oceans elsewhere at this price level which I’m missing? Thanks again

 

[WelshGas]

The prices on here are all over the place. You’ll soon recognise the ones which are priced correctly, they sell pretty quickly. Over priced ones sit until a couple of price reductions. The T5’s puzzle me. They are quite old now with no warranty and often for sale for what they would have cost new. Crazy. Completely avoid the 180 engine, even if it seem OK there’s no point carrying that level of risk. Buy a correctly priced T6 (150 is best for long term) for literally a few grand more (nothing in the scheme of things), with balance of VW warranty and Euro 6 engine which gives you a fighting chance against the anti diesel regimes.

Edited to add, I need to update my profile as I’ve recently sold the T6. It sold in a week for asking price because it was the best value available in the market. Others were asking £3K more for the same van and took weeks to shift, no doubt for similar money in the end. You’ll soon recognise who is on the money and who is kite flying.

Why do the UNINFORMED make such sweeping statements without any certifiable evidence to back their statements up.
Yes, there was a problem with 2010/2011 180 engines. But to rubbish ALL 180’s with such a sweeping statement is ridiculous.

Or is it all right to say avoid the T6 150 as it is grossly underpowered and suffers with Emission problems , oh and don’t forget the T6 204 has been downgraded to 199 , I wonder why?

 

[Moakesy]

Isn’t the calculation of depreciation from new all a bit academic to the original poster, as they are looking to buy used?

Surely what’s more relevant is depreciation of variously aged used models.

On that basis, I lost about £1k per year on 2011 t5.1 SE. I had it for two years, changing it last year.

I was one of those who were too optimistic on what I’d get for it. It sold after a price reduction to a guy who buys a van every spring, sells it at the end of summer only to do the same next year. He probably loses nothing aside from his time...but that is too much effort for me.

 

[Amarillo]

Isn’t the calculation of depreciation from new all a bit academic to the original poster, as they are looking to buy used?

Surely what’s more relevant is depreciation of variously aged used models.

On that basis, I lost about £1k per year on 2011 t5.1 SE. I had it for two years, changing it last year.

I was one of those who were too optimistic on what I’d get for it. It sold after a price reduction to a guy who buys a van every spring, sells it at the end of summer only to do the same next year. He probably loses nothing aside from his time...but that is too much effort for me.

I think the same calculation can be adapted to estimate the true cost of a second-hand purchase.

Not the difference between purchase price and disposal price, but the difference between replacement-with-equivalent-at-purchase cost and disposal value.

So, if someone bought my Beach for £35,000 and sold it five years later for £30,000, you would need to know the cost in 2024 of a 2022 Beach with 47,000 miles, and deduct from that £30,000, and divide that by five, to work out the cost of my Beach per year to the purchaser.

I expect it would be significantly greater than the £1,000 per year accountancy depreciation.

 

[Elmo3]

Why do the UNINFORMED make such sweeping statements without any certifiable evidence to back their statements up.
Yes, there was a problem with 2010/2011 180 engines. But to rubbish ALL 180’s with such a sweeping statement is ridiculous.

Or is it all right to say avoid the T6 150 as it is grossly underpowered and suffers with Emission problems , oh and don’t forget the T6 204 has been downgraded to 199 , I wonder why?

Most people are uninformed, some of whom will buy a 180 which will go bang and wonder WTF just happened. I’m fully aware of the issues but would never buy (an unaffected) one because it’s EU5. My 150 never felt underpowered. It’s a campervan, not a 911. Knowing what we know now and where things are heading, to sink that sort of money into a non EU6 vehicle is at best, brave, but each to their own. An EU6 (irrelevant which one really) under warranty for not a lot more money is, to me at least, a no brainer.

 

[Route66]

Elmo, I appreciate what you’re saying regarding Euro5 versus Euro6, however the market prices don’t seem to reflect this view - Euro5 prices are holding up very well indeed. Is this because California drivers don’t intend to be driving in low emission zones? Thanks

 

[WelshGas]

Elmo, I appreciate what you’re saying regarding Euro5 versus Euro6, however the market prices don’t seem to reflect this view - Euro5 prices are holding up very well indeed. Is this because California drivers don’t intend to be driving in low emission zones? Thanks

More than likely, and to be honest why would you. If you had to then you can always pay the daily charge or use alternative transport.
Apart from London many places allow EU 5 and 6 to transit at the moment without penalty or charge. This may change in the future.

 

[Kernowboy]

I think the same calculation can be adapted to estimate the true cost of a second-hand purchase.

Not the difference between purchase price and disposal price, but the difference between replacement-with-equivalent-at-purchase cost and disposal value.

So, if someone bought my Beach for £35,000 and sold it five years later for £30,000, you would need to know the cost in 2024 of a 2022 Beach with 47,000 miles, and deduct from that £30,000, and divide that by five, to work out the cost of my Beach per year to the purchaser.

I expect it would be significantly greater than the £1,000 per year accountancy depreciation.

Fooks me fellas, you're hanging on too tight. Get out there and enjoy your vans; I'm pretty sure that time spent working out accountancy depreciation, whatever that is, and worrying about a few quid here and there doesn't represent good value for money whatever way you look at it. It costs a lot in the first place, doesn't lose too much along the way, and what you sell it for will depend on how you look after it and, inversely, how much you use it. And bit on how good a salesman you are. And a bit on how much time/effort you are willing to out in. And a bit on how much a few quid means to you. And of course rather a lot of luck.

 

[Borris]

The way I see it, when you sell a vehicle it's only worth what someone's prepared to pay for it. When you buy a replacement it will cost what the seller is prepared to sell it for. The only two questions remaining are:

A. Can you afford the difference? and
B. Can you justify the expense?

If the answer to A and B is yes then it's game on. Working out depreciation and running costs is only likely to cause unhappiness as all vehicles cost alot to run and nearly all vehicles depreciate.

However, with the California there is third question:

Could I live without one?

 

[Perfectos]

A Cali is an immense outlay, both emotional and financial, if you use it and have fun using it, surely that’s justification in its self.
Could you do without any vehicle ?
What would be the depreciation of another vehicle ?
Will you die tomorrow?
Get out and enjoy life whilst you still can

 

[Elmo3]

Elmo, I appreciate what you’re saying regarding Euro5 versus Euro6, however the market prices don’t seem to reflect this view - Euro5 prices are holding up very well indeed. Is this because California drivers don’t intend to be driving in low emission zones? Thanks

The current / proposed low emission zones will be the thin edge of the wedge, it will spread to towns, motorways, A roads etc. Human behaviour is often irrational but personally I wouldn’t sink big money into a diesel vehicle that wasn’t EU6.

 

[pjm-84]

What happens when Euro 7 comes out, expected 2020?