Solar Panels

[GrumpyGranddad]

That looks ideal, I'd be interested to see how you get on with it

Looks good.
For those looking at uk based portable solar solutions this company also has a good range of options

 

[Calimili]

So I believe I have found the perfect portable folding solar panel from a UK based organisation so no problems with double VAT charging post Brexit and being charged courier admin fees which makes buying from Offgridtec prohibitive - see other posts on subject. It has the 120W panels with SunPower cells which are top of the range and the width of the panels open can fit nicely inside the windscreen which I see as a benefit since if you are leaving the vehicle in a public place you can leave it charging without worrying about it going missing. I also bought the 10A Victron MPPT Controller which is small and can communicate directly with your phone to give the relevant charging readings - this I think is a bonus since I previously had on my T4 solar panels a controller with a read out screen but I damaged the glass screen so I could not read it which was very frustrating. I didn't order the fuse and holder per the quote since I wanted to use a very small blade fuse which I am sure I can purchase from Halfords but I will show the link to both my order without the fuse and the previously draft order with fuse and holder. Mike at BimbleSolar has been really useful technically or if you are just ordering Laura is very helpful.
https://www.bimblesolar.com/index.p...cart&items=1846-1,1850-1,1938-4,2051-3,186-10,
https://www.bimblesolar.com/index.p...6-1,1850-1,1882-1,2037-1,1938-4,2051-3,186-10,
All I need to do is buy the fuse and holder, connect up the wires and I should be away

the panel looks pretty identical to the offgridtec, probably made by the same chinese manifacturer but with different brand.

 

[GP]

Absolutely, your original recommendation made me search for the same panel UK Sourced. It's exactly the same size etc so I'm almost 100% sure it is the same. So a big thank you for your original recommendation, all I have done is find it in the UK because it's now cost prohibitive to buy from Europe. I have to say Mike at Bimble Solar has also been really helpful sorting out the spec for me. Just looking forward to using it in the coming months but as you are already happy with yours I am confident mine will work fine and do the job.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Just be aware there are a few big "gotchas" with dash mounting a solar panel.

1) You lose about 10% power due to being behind a windscreen
2) The angle is never optimal, unless you prop it up at near-35+ degrees - that costs you around 20% + power loss.
3) Your panel is only in direct, unshaded sun for a few hours a day when the sun is directly in front and above - midday for most. The rest of the day it is partially shaded which takes a huge hit on performance - we are talking 70-80% loss if a couple of the cells are shaded. When I say partially shaded I mean any shadows from the bodywork/pillars at all.
4) It runs less efficiently due to getting hotter inside than it would outside.

A 120w panel will act like something a lot smaller overall. A lot smaller.

Most of this can be negated if you take it outside and prop it up.

Dash mounted panels are good enough for keeping batteries topped up over winter when parked up, but a compromised solution for actualy camping use.

 

[GP]

Thanks Roger and yes I agree with it in the window it will have some limitation but if I leave the van all day the chances are I will get a good charge. I would only really want to do that if I have worries about security. Most of the time I will erect it on the ground near by the van or even lay it on the roof with a fixing through the steel eyelets and the panel I have bought is a good version with top of the range sunpower cells. Time will tell.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Nice - enjoy the sun when it returns!

We use Sunpower cells too.

 

[Calimili]

Absolutely, your original recommendation made me search for the same panel UK Sourced. It's exactly the same size etc so I'm almost 100% sure it is the same. So a big thank you for your original recommendation, all I have done is find it in the UK because it's now cost prohibitive to buy from Europe. I have to say Mike at Bimble Solar has also been really helpful sorting out the spec for me. Just looking forward to using it in the coming months but as you are already happy with yours I am confident mine will work fine and do the job.

Just be aware there are a few big "gotchas" with dash mounting a solar panel.

1) You lose about 10% power due to being behind a windscreen
2) The angle is never optimal, unless you prop it up at near-35+ degrees - that costs you around 20% + power loss.
3) Your panel is only in direct, unshaded sun for a few hours a day when the sun is directly in front and above - midday for most. The rest of the day it is partially shaded which takes a huge hit on performance - we are talking 70-80% loss if a couple of the cells are shaded. When I say partially shaded I mean any shadows from the bodywork/pillars at all.
4) It runs less efficiently due to getting hotter inside than it would outside.

A 120w panel will act like something a lot smaller overall. A lot smaller.

Most of this can be negated if you take it outside and prop it up.

Dash mounted panels are good enough for keeping batteries topped up over winter when parked up, but a compromised solution for actualy camping use.

Pros and cons as with everything.
All that you said is correct.
I could also say there are some negatives with a fix panel on the roof. It could also lose part of its efficiency as being exposed to the elements it may get dirty. Birds can poop on it or drops from trees/leaves. It is also not that easy to wash being up there and not being able to go through the automated carwash. The panel inside remains always clean instead.
The angle is also not optimal being flat, especially in winter when the sun is lower on the horizon. If you camp and the roof is up it also has a fixed angle and the fixed panel may not be in the direction of the sun , same as a dash mount, just opposite direction. At least the portable one can be taken out and oriented accordingly, without having to move the whole van every couple of hours.

It really depends how you camp and whether you need it for topping up batteries in winter or more. From the experience over the last year using a portable solar panel I notice that:
For purpose of keeping the batteries charged:
In summer and winter the 120W may get reduced power being behind a windscreen , being sometimes at not optimal angle, being partially shaded, being less efficient due to heat, but it still draws a lot of power and the leisure batteries are always topped up. In summer it just needs as couple of hours or less (note I'm in Germany not Spain).
For purpose of camping:
It depends what camping you do.
If you use camping sites, I just use the Electric Hook up, the panel stays home. sometimes you need to pay for hooks up included anyway.
If you park in the wild, if it is wild enough nobody is going to steal your solar panel. If there are other people/campers in the vicinity, than a fixed panel may be preferable, assuming you can't park in the direction of the sun.
I think the big advantage of the roof mount is the fit and forget, it always charges, ideal for people using the van often and/or as a daily driver.
If i was using it as a daily driver and camp wild and use a lot of electricity I would use both.

 

[andyinluton]

For camping we need a clamp to fit these to the front edge of the raising roof, with the panoramic opening front, that area is easy to reach even with the roof up so angle & direction of the panel could be adjusted easily through the day if needed, and if on a site I would be happy leaving it unattended & not expect it to be nicked.

 

[Calimili]

For camping we need a clamp to fit these to the front edge of the raising roof, with the panoramic opening front, that area is easy to reach even with the roof up so angle & direction of the panel could be adjusted easily through the day if needed, and if on a site I would be happy leaving it unattended & not expect it to be nicked.

I was thinking also at something similar. But rather than a clamp, just using a rope/ paracord attached to the eyelets and to ring fittings on the rail of the roof.

 

[Vagophile]

I think the big advantage of the roof mount is the fit and forget, it always charges, ideal for people using the van often and/or as a daily driver.

To me this is a really big advantage. If you have enough wattage, you just let the panels get on with their job, irrespective of angle, orientation or even a bit of shade. The only maintenance required is to keep them clean.

 

[Calimili]

To me this is a really big advantage. If you have enough wattage, you just let the panels get on with their job, irrespective of angle, orientation or even a bit of shade. The only maintenance required is to keep them clean.

I agree. Also putting the panel on the dash it is just a 20 seconds job.
I don't think one system is superior to the other. One system may fit better the use of one user, the other system more suitable to others.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

A couple of corrections.

- the angle on an elevating roof is absolutely perfect for a panel, and all you have to do is park with the sun behind you and you get the ideal arc of sun travel over a day. You dont' have to move your van every couple of hours, and you don't have to park in the "direction of the sun" You simply park with the sun behind you, and that is a decision to reverse, or drive forwards in to a pitch. The arc of the sun travel is absolutely ideal. If you are camping with the roof down then of course it's not optimal - but its rare for people in a Cali top not raise their roof.

- car wash is irrelevant as no one takes their Cali, with pop top through a car wash, not in the UK. I believe you can in the EU? Not sure how many actually do?

- panels on the roof are pretty much self cleaning, with the exception of parking under a tree with birds.

The big advantage for most people is being able to camp off-pitch. Then you need solid solar performance to cope with the fridge, phones, tablets etc.

If you have lower demands then of course there are options that will keep your batteries topped up.

I honestly can't see any negatives with fixed installation on an elevating roof. In fact, just the opposite.

I started this company after trying just that - using a folding panel that was put outside. It was a nuisance enough that I roof mounted my next panel.

I am of course aware that different people have different needs. There are happy users of dash/folding panels as it works for them, but for the majority, roof mounting is preferable.

Pros and cons as with everything.
All that you said is correct.
I could also say there are some negatives with a fix panel on the roof. It could also lose part of its efficiency as being exposed to the elements it may get dirty. Birds can poop on it or drops from trees/leaves. It is also not that easy to wash being up there and not being able to go through the automated carwash. The panel inside remains always clean instead.
The angle is also not optimal being flat, especially in winter when the sun is lower on the horizon. If you camp and the roof is up it also has a fixed angle and the fixed panel may not be in the direction of the sun , same as a dash mount, just opposite direction. At least the portable one can be taken out and oriented accordingly, without having to move the whole van every couple of hours.

It really depends how you camp and whether you need it for topping up batteries in winter or more. From the experience over the last year using a portable solar panel I notice that:
For purpose of keeping the batteries charged:
In summer and winter the 120W may get reduced power being behind a windscreen , being sometimes at not optimal angle, being partially shaded, being less efficient due to heat, but it still draws a lot of power and the leisure batteries are always topped up. In summer it just needs as couple of hours or less (note I'm in Germany not Spain).
For purpose of camping:
It depends what camping you do.
If you use camping sites, I just use the Electric Hook up, the panel stays home. sometimes you need to pay for hooks up included anyway.
If you park in the wild, if it is wild enough nobody is going to steal your solar panel. If there are other people/campers in the vicinity, than a fixed panel may be preferable, assuming you can't park in the direction of the sun.
I think the big advantage of the roof mount is the fit and forget, it always charges, ideal for people using the van often and/or as a daily driver.
If i was using it as a daily driver and camp wild and use a lot of electricity I would use both.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Saw this on the Calitop site. Might be a good connection solution for those wanting to go with portable solar?

 

[briwy]

We have two panels. One 160w fixed on the roof and a 100w flexible panel that lives in the roof when not in use. On site the flexible panel just connects in parallel to the feed into the charge controller via a cable with plug and socket. The flexible is then positioned best to suit the sun's position but in reality it usually ends up across the windscreen held in place with elastic cord round the wing mirrors.
Best of both worlds.

 

[GP]

I went for a foldable 120W from OFFgridtec and the Victron MPPT 75/15 controller. It can also fit inside the windshield, I connect it to the front leisure battery.
Of course i can also charge the Engine battery by plugging into the dash cigarette socket near the gear lever or charge both Leisure and Engine Battery by plugging into the front leasure battery and using a cable with two cig plugs, one of which switched, to connect the cig plug on the kitchen unit (fed by the leisure batteries) to the front dash cig plug near the gear lever (fed by the engine battery).
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/leisure-battery-charging.32304/post-378239

sorry, this is the correct post :
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/leisure-battery-charging.32304/page-3#post-412885

Hi, I went for the similar set up to yours and have recently wired in the 120w foldable solar panel and Victron MPPT under the front passenger seat which works really well. I haven't maybe give it enough thought but I have wired the panel via the MPPT and a fuse directly onto the positive and negative of the leisure battery. Do you think that I am correct and that this will still charge both leisure batteries equally?

 

[GP]

Further to the above question reading a few more previous threads on the subject I can possibly see that the T6 and T6.1 have different wiring needs. Maybe you can connect both the positive and negatives directly to their respective terminals to one battery under the front seat for the T6 but possible for the T6.1 you can still connect the positive directly to the terminal but the negative needs to be connected to the van (rather than directly to the terminal) to ensure the battery monitor can see the charge coming in from solar? However I'm still a bit confused. Does anyone know the correct set up for a 6.1 with a foldable solar and victron controller, preferably wiring in via the front leisure battery? Thanks!

 

[WelshGas]

Further to the above question reading a few more previous threads on the subject I can possibly see that the T6 and T6.1 have different wiring needs. Maybe you can connect both the positive and negatives directly to their respective terminals to one battery under the front seat for the T6 but possible for the T6.1 you can still connect the positive directly to the terminal but the negative needs to be connected to the van (rather than directly to the terminal) to ensure the battery monitor can see the charge coming in from solar? However I'm still a bit confused. Does anyone know the correct set up for a 6.1 with a foldable solar and victron controller, preferably wiring in via the front leisure battery? Thanks!

You are correct regarding the T6. 1

 

[GP]

Thank you. so to clarify I have three questions:

1. If I connect the solar to the victron and then from the victron the positive lead take directly to the positive battery terminal under the front passenger seat and the negative from the victron to the chassis then the VW monitoring will pick up the solar input correctly. and all will be tickety-boo?

2. if I wire up as 1. above then will both batteries will be charged by the solar via the victron?

3. If the answer to 2. is no then how it is best to wire up to get both batteries charged since that must be the ultimate requirement?

Hope those questions makes sense. At the moment I have the wiring from the victron directly onto the positive and negative terminals respectively. I assume that the only problem with this is the Van's monitoring of the leisure charge for both batteries will not be correct??
Many thanks.

 

[WelshGas]

Thank you. so to clarify I have three questions:

1. If I connect the solar to the victron and then from the victron the positive lead take directly to the positive battery terminal under the front passenger seat and the negative from the victron to the chassis then the VW monitoring will pick up the solar input correctly. and all will be tickety-boo?

2. if I wire up as 1. above then will both batteries will be charged by the solar via the victron?

3. If the answer to 2. is no then how it is best to wire up to get both batteries charged since that must be the ultimate requirement?

Hope those questions makes sense. At the moment I have the wiring from the victron directly onto the positive and negative terminals respectively. I assume that the only problem with this is the Van's monitoring of the leisure charge for both batteries will not be correct??
Many thanks.

1. Yes

2. Yes, the 2 Leisure Batteries are wired in Parallel.

The T6.1 has a battery monitoring system connected on the -tve pole of the battery. If the Solar Panel is wired directly to the -tve pole then both Leisure Batteries will be charged but the % Charge / Hrs left calculation may not be accurate but the Voltage would be accurate, which is a better indicator of battery capacity.

 

[Calimili]

As already said in previous posts, the LBs are wired in parallel. Therefore connecting +ve and -ve of front battery will also charge the rear battery as they tend to equalise. People with fixed solar panel on the roof connect the other way round, to the rear battery and also the front one will be charge.
For simplicity, as it seems not so easy to find a really good chassis point (unpainted) for the -ve , I've attached the mppt + and - both to the front battery.
Yes, it is through the charge % in the Camping Unit will not read correctly, but I monitor the charge status via the Victron app that connects via bluetooth to the MPPT. I have by far much more information from the app vs from the Cali Camping Unit. And it is much more convenient to check via the app, even from outside the Cali, up to approx 10m distance. Therefore when the Cali is parked at home i can check the charge status/progress without having to go in the Cali.

 

[GP]

Thank you for both for your replies, really useful. Re Calimili's point about the Victron app do you mean I will be able to see how much voltage or charge there is across both batteries? I can understand that I can see what is going into the batteries from the solar but didn't realise that I may be able to get a good indication of the amount of charge I have in the two batteries. If that is the case then I would imagine that is all I need to know?
So I have just looked at my Victon app and walked close to the van and it shows batteries 12.65V and 0.00A. From that information can I deduct roughly how long I have left or how healthy the batteries are - sorry to ask dumb questions! By the way I have not used the solar yet since I haven't used the van since fitting it or even had the van out in the sun to properly test the set up!

 

[Calimili]

The Victron app will tell you how much current the solar panel is producing in Volt, Amper and Watts. And how many Ampere are fed into the Battery. It will also tell you in which state of charging is currently in , Bulk, Float or Absorpion or Off, and it includes the current Voltage of the Battery.
Regardless of how you charge batteries, solar or mains, it will always take a couple of hours for the batteries to stabilise before you can read accurately how many Volt and % of Charge you really have. The App will tell you at night that it receives obviously 0 W, 0 V and 0 A from solar, the Status is "Off" , but it will tell you the current voltage of the battery, i.e. what its actual charge status is in Volts. As the system is "Off" you can also check it in the Camping Unit for the same information and the % charge.
In addition, you can check the history up to 30 days in the past, it will tell you max Voltage and Min Voltage of the battery, as well as how much it charged every day. So you have a very comprehensive view how much it was charge and if you are consuming more that you are producing .

 

[WelshGas]

Thank you for both for your replies, really useful. Re Calimili's point about the Victron app do you mean I will be able to see how much voltage or charge there is across both batteries? I can understand that I can see what is going into the batteries from the solar but didn't realise that I may be able to get a good indication of the amount of charge I have in the two batteries. If that is the case then I would imagine that is all I need to know?
So I have just looked at my Victon app and walked close to the van and it shows batteries 12.65V and 0.00A. From that information can I deduct roughly how long I have left or how healthy the batteries are - sorry to ask dumb questions! By the way I have not used the solar yet since I haven't used the van since fitting it or even had the van out in the sun to properly test the set up!

As the 2 batteries are wired in parallel they are treated as 1 x 150 amp battery as far as your Victron controller is concerned.

 

[GP]

Great thank you both for your advice and guidance. Think I have just about got the hang of it now - we'll see in a few weeks' time when we go down to Dorset.

 

[GP]

Can I ask Calimili about the set up of the Victron? I think I have exactly the same hardware as you (since I think I copied you!) and I have seen that there are a few set up options on the charger under settings. Battery preset/ Equalization etc. Do you know what changes I have to make from the default settings?