Ozzy Pete
Personally I think his own people will be his downfall. As far as our own politicians I wouldn’t pee on them if they were on fire.
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I really hope so, the information war Russia is operating both internally and abroad is well versed and that's where this is ultimately won, it's anyones guess at the moment.
Velma's Dad
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VIP Member
That's so often what we say about regimes we don't like. But in practice totalitarian regimes (and that's how Russia can probably now be described) tend to be resilient.
It's also a mistake to assume that the exit of a totalitarian leader will necessarily result in a sudden democratisation. Serious Russia-watchers are more inclined to talk about 'The Kremlin' than about 'Putin', recognising that the regime is governed in practice by a security/military dominated cabinet who share a worldview and inherited strategic/political doctrine even if Putin calls the shots - literally - within tightly-bounded possibility fields.
I haven't been to Russia for donkeys years but from what I've seen reported, and more importantly described by those with real insight into Russian society, the majority are fully bought into the narrative of protecting ethnic Russians against an attempted genocide in eastern Ukraine. Most Russians get all their information through state controlled TV, few use the internet for that purpose (mostly the urban young). In some video 'vox pop' interviews I saw last week, even when shown pics of bombed 'Russian speaking' cities like Kharkiv and Kyiv people were unwilling to contemplate their veracity but in any case were accustomed to leaving Putin to decide what is best for the country even if they were apparently aware of the likely impact on them of western sanctions.
Anyway, even if a majority ends up opposing a war, that doesn't mean the government will change course, even in a democracy. Depending on which poll you believe, nearly half of British people are said to have opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and that was before it even happened.
Still, I'd love to be proved wrong on all that.
Velma's Dad
Super Poster
VIP Member
Okay I was wrong about it being genocide by Ukraine, apparently it's that they held gay pride marches. We are truly through the looking glass now I think.
(CNN, today):
The leader of the Russian Orthodox Church said gay pride parades were part of the reason for the war in Ukraine.
Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, a long-time ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, said on Sunday that the conflict in Donbas is about “a fundamental rejection of the so-called values that are offered today by those who claim world power.”
The “test” of which side you are on, said Kirill, is whether your country is willing to hold gay pride parades.
“In order to enter the club of those countries, it is necessary to hold a gay pride parade. Not to make a political statement, ‘we are with you,’ not to sign any agreements, but to hold a gay parade. And we know how people resist these demands and how this resistance is suppressed by force,” Kirill said during a sermon in Moscow.
Kirill categorized the war as a struggle of “metaphysical significance,” for humanity to follow God’s laws.
“What is happening today in the sphere of international relations has not only political significance. We are talking about something different and much more important than politics. We are talking about human salvation,” he said.
“If we see violations of [God’s] law, we will never put up with those who destroy this law, blurring the line between holiness and sin, and even more so with those who promote sin as an example or as one of the models of human behavior,” Kirill said.
“Around this topic today there is a real war,” he said.
Patriarch Kirill is a major religious figure in Russia, where the Russian Orthodox religion is considered an integral part of Russian identity. He has come under pressure from within his own church since the beginning of the war to denounce Putin’s aggression, but his public statements so far have failed to do that. On the contrary, Kirill’s language has lent support to Putin’s vision of a spiritual and temporal Russian empire.
(CNN, today):
Russian Orthodox Church alleges gay pride parades were part of the reason for Ukraine war
From CNNs Delia Gallagher in RomeThe leader of the Russian Orthodox Church said gay pride parades were part of the reason for the war in Ukraine.
Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, a long-time ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, said on Sunday that the conflict in Donbas is about “a fundamental rejection of the so-called values that are offered today by those who claim world power.”
The “test” of which side you are on, said Kirill, is whether your country is willing to hold gay pride parades.
“In order to enter the club of those countries, it is necessary to hold a gay pride parade. Not to make a political statement, ‘we are with you,’ not to sign any agreements, but to hold a gay parade. And we know how people resist these demands and how this resistance is suppressed by force,” Kirill said during a sermon in Moscow.
Kirill categorized the war as a struggle of “metaphysical significance,” for humanity to follow God’s laws.
“What is happening today in the sphere of international relations has not only political significance. We are talking about something different and much more important than politics. We are talking about human salvation,” he said.
“If we see violations of [God’s] law, we will never put up with those who destroy this law, blurring the line between holiness and sin, and even more so with those who promote sin as an example or as one of the models of human behavior,” Kirill said.
“Around this topic today there is a real war,” he said.
Patriarch Kirill is a major religious figure in Russia, where the Russian Orthodox religion is considered an integral part of Russian identity. He has come under pressure from within his own church since the beginning of the war to denounce Putin’s aggression, but his public statements so far have failed to do that. On the contrary, Kirill’s language has lent support to Putin’s vision of a spiritual and temporal Russian empire.
Ozzy Pete
The Russians started off with an estimated 190,000 troops. Nobody really knows but it’s said around 10,000 to 15,000 have been killed taken prisoner or wounded. That’s 10-15,000 families who won’t see their sons brothers or fathers again. The Ukrainians have probably lost Thousands of civilians. The Russian troops are mainly conscripts and have no choice and don’t want to fight.
The Ukrainians are fighting for their country and their families and want to fight. Their resolve will never be broken and Russia will never win. Ask yourself what would you do if your country was invaded by Russia? I know what I would do and wouldn’t give in ..ever..
History has told us from Vietnam to Afghanistan you can never break the will of the people. A lot of people on both sides will needlessly die but in the end Ukrainians will win.
Viktorgeorge
Starlight Blue Ocean 4Mo MY2023 older bellows
Lifetime VIP Member
Not what we have been told:
this guy in on the ground:
and then there is this to get your head around, if you have trusted everything you have been told by Government and the MSM:
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GrumpyGranddad
Super Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Hologram Zelenskiy promises Ukraine will defeat ‘the empire’
Ukrainian president attends trade shows as electronic apparition, urging tech companies to aid ‘digital revolution’ on lend-lease terms
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