Suspension comfort upgrades for 4motion 6.1 2022 California

[sidepod]

The point being, give people knobs to twiddle and they’ll f*** it up!

 

[Montecha]

So tell us what damping settings you chose and why?

CRS set them at the mid point as a base setting. I have reduced the fronts 2 clicks on compression and gone up 2 on rebound. On the rear, 3 clicks less compression and 1 up on rebound.

This seems to allow the spring to do it's job, without being a) too hard compression damping, or b) like a pogo stick with insufficient rebound. Basically it rides softer without too much bounce, a bit of roll in the corner but I'm OK with going slightly slower.

I don't have a kitchen, so my rear is most likely lighter than the Oceans and 4 Motions.

This is my 4th suspension change from standard; H&R lowering springs, Bilstein B14, Bilstein B14 Comfort and now the KWs. Changing the damping is easy, and quite fun to explore how you can change the ride.

 

[PeteS]

My view coming from an engineering background is that VW have set the van up as a compromise. All the testing they do will to ensure the van can carry its maximum payload over a large range of different road surfaces without breaking.
So a cali is different from the panel van and will be used in a different way. The aftermarket suspension suppliers should look at this and maybe set it up slightly different but you would need to check the details with the manufacturer. A good place to start would be see if there is a different listing for the parts for a Cali vs a Panel Van. If there is no difference then they have selected the set up as a compromise for the complete range of Vans be it Panel Van, Caravelle or Cali.
Another think to consider is if you fit new suspension components to a van that has done 50k miles then you should see a difference as you are replacing worn components for new. The rubber components will have started to breakdown. Just replacing the rubber components will show an improvement.

 

[Able78]

Hi all,

Hoping for some advice. I have factory suspension on my 4motion with diff lock option. Although the ride isn't bad, I do go up tracks with potholes - I am looking to understand the pros/cons for options for improving the ride on the road and off the road... I am not interested in lowering or raising.

From what I have read, good options seem to be Koni active shocks (keeping existing springs), Bilstein shocks of some description (keeping existing springs). I spoke to my dealer who says that they only fit Eibach coil over kits - but I know nothing about these and I suspect they relate to lowering rather than comfort.

So for comfort purposes, does anyone have experience of the options above?

Many thanks,

I am suprised that no one (sorry if I missed it) talks about Rim and tire (american here) combinations. I have always found that the best way to improve comfort and road feel is less rim more rubber.

 

[t0ne]

@markheathcote please let us know how it goes, I've also got a 22 Ocean 4motion and find the "handling" slightly terrifying. Having had 2 T28 panel vans previously (a high miler T5 that I lowered on Bilstein B14s and a low miler T6 that I had Caravelle rails and rear seat fitted on stock suspension) the amount of corner lean and understeer in the Ocean was rather unexpected. I too don't particularly want to lower mine but a bit more stiffness would be nice (that's what she said etc.)

 

[CaliforniaSeb]

I have now been driving and living with my Cali's mods. It is easy to get carried away with the perceived improvements when spending money on upgrades. Overall I am happy. It has improved the Cali in areas I didn't expect and not made a lot of difference in areas I was hoping to sort. My Cali is totally level. It was raised at the back slightly to make it level.i have used a spirit level to confirm where I parked was level and that the cali was also level. There is a very noticeable improvement with the steering.. I no longer get the horrid front wheel spin if I over power setting off at a roundabout ,etc. There is still roll, but less,and not back and forth. Ride over potholes and on b roads is not overly improved. However, if you hit a quick succession of potholes it sorts it self out in-between each pothole. I went in to vastly improve ride over poor roads. It has done so slightly but not enough to fork out the money imho. However the improved steering, lack of wheel spin and overall feeling of greater poise, makes me a happy customer. I realise all this can be subjective.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Perhaps you should be asking the question what is in the construction of the replacement damper that makes it superior to the stock unit?
Is the valving better? Does it have better shim stacks etc.
I guarantee the vendor won’t be able to tell you.

VW spend countless hours pounding around test tracks like MIRA and Nardo tweaking chassis setup, spring rates, suspension geometry etc.
In the end they settle on the best compromise for all conditions.

The fact that people think they can improve on this with the addition of something that has had a lot less development time is farcical.

British roads are the problem, not the chassis.

To be fair to Steve at CRS performance, he knows his stuff. This is from setting up and racing VW’s for 35 years and specialising in suspension. I’m not saying he’s going to transform a new California and neither did he say he could. He said the best thing you could do with a new one is replace the standard damper with a Koni Active Damper and yes, to an untrained ear, he understands how they’re made and what makes them better. No knobs and buttons to play with. While VW make the best compromise for all conditions, they also have to compromise on price so it not hard to understand how, by making the right choices, you can improve the standard set up. Also, VW don’t change the suspension for UK vans (AFAIK) so finding dampers that handle British roads better should also improve the ride. That said, I won’t be changing the suspension on my MY23 Cali as I don’t think I’d get the bang for bucks. It would most probably be better but not enough to justify the cost. And the ARB’s are uprated already so you wouldn’t get improvements from changing those either.

I took my friends 2013 T5.1 conversion in which handled terribly. Alarming body roll, crashing over potholes, saggy bottom etc. He put in coil overs and uprated roll bars and the result was transformative. Some of this (as also mentioned by Steve) was due to new components over old and I also believe the roll bars made the most difference to the handling. But it also stopped the crashing and the stance was much improved. From a low base like that, you can see the difference decent suspension can make. Probably the best money my mate will spend on that van.

I don’t doubt Steve knows what he’s talking about but you’d have to talk to him yourself to see if you agree.

 

[66tim99]

finding dampers that handle British roads better should also improve the ride.

The OEM Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) dampers do. I'm surprised more don't tick that box, and dealers don't push the option more. With the amount people seem to spend on aftermarket shocks, its good value. I know Steve and Bognor etc don't think they are as good as Koni, but you wouldn't expect them to. I appreciate being able to select different modes with a press of a button on the dash.
When I got he Cali, I tested the modes over 20mph speed humps with two plus a dog in the back. 'Comfort' rebounds, 'Normal' is ok, 'Sport' is a more comfortable ride in the back (and a more reassuring drive), so I use it round town.
Weighted steering is a bonus. I love 'Comfort' on the motorway, you float along, and I have set my steering to be 'Sport' and 'Comfort' suspension in 'Individual' mode, so I can have the best of both worlds if I wish.

 

[markheathcote]

@markheathcote please let us know how it goes, I've also got a 22 Ocean 4motion and find the "handling" slightly terrifying. Having had 2 T28 panel vans previously (a high miler T5 that I lowered on Bilstein B14s and a low miler T6 that I had Caravelle rails and rear seat fitted on stock suspension) the amount of corner lean and understeer in the Ocean was rather unexpected. I too don't particularly want to lower mine but a bit more stiffness would be nice (that's what she said etc.)

OK, THE VERDICT....

First, my Cali is not lowered or raised, it is the 204 4motion with diff lock, it has Michelin Agilis all season tyres with mud/snow capability... So, plenty of rubber/air (I must change my profile picture to the new van).

I found it a little "car sicky" sitting in the back, as did one of the dogs. Bumps were quite harsh, side roll kept my cornering speeds down, and the generally stability feel kept my speeds in check on motorways.

The Koni shocks were put on last week by CRS, with no height adjustments... this is what I have noticed...

Getting in the van immedietly felt different / more solid. This is weird since I had not even gone anywhere, but I think the van noticeably rocked less when I got in.

Sideways roll is reduced by around 50% I would say, both in extent of roll and the roll recovery time.. this is fairly noticable.

Front / rear roll, e.g. when breaking is significantly improved... the rear no longer lifts forward to anywhere near the extent it did when I am breaking hard. I always found it impossible to come to a smooth halt without jerking - I can now bring it to a smooth and gentle halt with no jerks.

High speed stability is miles better - I found myself naturally going back to speeds that I used to do in my Discovery Sport.... I felt very stable and in control at those high speeds whereas I did not before if I pushed it. This is not necessarily a good thing as I may end up driving faster as a result. eek.

Cornering is also significantly better with way less roll. I am taking corners at higher speeds, which may result in less acceleration and breaking I guess.

Pot holes are the least noticeable difference, though it is still smooths them out somewhat - I would say 30% smoother, maybe a little more. I used to slow right down for speed bumps, but took a couple of small ones at faster speeds and it rolled smoothly over them.

I have yet to do a long journey with the dogs in the back, and I have not sat in the back yet. However, overall this is a moderate to good improvement, feeling more stable, more in control and less roll. Is it worth £1000? If you can afford it, and you want better performance on cornering and high speed, with less roll both forward/back and left/right then I would recommend them. If you want to just reduce pot hole impact then possibly not, though still an improvement.

I will report back on the dogs, sitting in the back and off road tracks once I have that information. By the way, I also did a spirit level test and the bubble after the upgrade was moving about 50% less left/right and was also jumping about 50% less than before.

I am overall pretty pleased with the result. Everything just seems that little bit smoother.

 

[Flower Power]

Another plug for Koni Special Active.
I have installed them in the rear a few days ago. Everything else re suspension (for now) is stock. Wanted to make my van less wobbly on the small Alpine roads I travel everyday. Mission accomplished. Van feels more planted, takes curves better, To me, Comfort improved slightly because now the van is a bit less of a floating boat (if that makes sense.) Still takes road imperfections well.

Maybe I change the front to Koni special Active as well.
Baby steps.... I will see..