the future of diesels

[chuggertwo]

Just wondering.
What is or is there a future for our older westfalia california tdi diesels with emission scandals and health concerns over this?
I don't want to catastrophise nonetheless I wonder and feel a bit uncomfortable about this.
Does anyone else feel like this?
Will the bottom fall out the market or will the specialist camper community resolutely continue?
Or will this encourage creative thinking ...
backpack and tent!!

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Having an even older one (the 2.4d AAB has no ECU, no catalytic converter, no DPF and is purely a mechanical engine), I'm not in the slightest bit worried. It has many advantages, such as being able to be fixed with a hammer, by anyone, anywhere

There are many places I can't take it, especially in Germany. This will probably increase. I'm fine with this. I park on the outside of these areas and walk, cycle or take public transport into them. I don't enjoy driving in heavy traffic, so it doesn't really make any difference to me.

On the emissions side, yes it is more polluting than a modern vehicle. But I'd suggest less polluting than the impact of scrapping it and having a new vehicle manufactured (mining raw materials through to delivery) and then driving that about a few thousand miles a year.

Watching the T3 forums, there does seem to be increasing chatter about swapping to petrol engines. Maybe we'll all be hunting out the 2.5L petrol engine for a swap in a few years?

 

[sidepod]

STOP THIS NOW!
Have you seen the nightmare post over on the T5 side? Mass hysteria and panic.

The Westy will live on and always be a sought after bus.

 

[Chriswoody]

I am a little worried to be honest, it's taken a long time to save up for this van and I would love to keep it for a good many years yet. However there is a good chance that I could be legislated of the road.

That said, when we were looking for a van we had narrowed our search to vans with Euro 4 compliance stickers, because we drive into Hannover from time to time. Hannover is an umwelt zone and in theory only allows Euro 4 and higher vehicles in. However they were proving hard to find and looking further into this, I realised that owners were retro fitting DPF filters which would make their vehicles compliant. Our local VW dealer said he would fit one for 800 Euros, O.K. I think that's an option. Then I decided to check the fine for being caught without Euro 4 in Hannover, mmm 60 Euros! O.K. the fact that I've also never seen a single check for vehicle compliance in three years makes this a bit of a no brainer for me.

So who knows what the future holds, but I am a little concerned that my nasty oil burner may go the way of the dinosaurs before the rust finally kills it.

 

[GrannyJen]

If diesels were to be legislated "off the road" it would take years and years.

At the end of the day there is only one way to totally rid the world of harmful vehicle emissions and that is to get rid of private transport and what government anywhere in the world is going to legislate against the ownership of a motor car?

There are just too many diesels out there to rid European roads of them in even a generation.

 

[Chriswoody]

Germany is a bit of a strange place really, on the one hand it tries to be really green and you could really imagine a scenario where they would do something daft like force old diesels of the road, on the other they absolutely worship their cars and the car industry so as you rightly say the whole thought is laughable.

As an interesting aside, the general feeling in Wolfsburg is that this whole scandal has come about as a result of a long running feud between VW and the Porsche family. In a nutshell this whole thing was discovered last year and VW have known about it since then, however it has taken until now to blow up, just when Winterkorn was due to be handed a new contract. Lots of intrigue and scandal, but nobody here it seems, is that bothered about the actual emissions!

 

[WelshGas]

Diesels account for more than 3 out of 4 internal combustion engines in the world.
Commercial, Agricultural, Military, Shipping and a small percentage overall of private vehicles. It would be generations, not years or even decades before they could ever be replaced, and replaced by what?

 

[knightons]

The sky is falling.

Being a recent convert to the Cali we did think long and hard about investing in a [comparatively expensive] diesel vehicle before we took the plunge earlier this year; especially considering the imminent move to Euro 6 engines (and onward to Euro 7 and so on) and the incessant noises being made by the mayor about barring diesels from the golden streets of London.

We invested in Ellie for a number of different reasons many of which we wont bore you with, but in summary and as per our first post a few weeks ago, we consider that you are a long time dead and even if legislation and diesel nay-sayers and the increasing vocal electric vehicle technology lobby or what ever's coming next [hydrogen; hover?] forces the early demise of diesels we still will have enjoyed all aspects of ownership in the interim. And when the time comes and diesels are legislated out of certain areas (or off the road completely), then we'll go elsewhere happy and contented in our decision. While others are worrying, we'll be enjoying Ellie and hope to meet a few other like-minded people along the way.

Cheers. Deborah and Cliff

 

[sidepod]

Keep in mind that this whole affair will be blown out of all proportions by the US lawyers (pushed by the US car industry).
It's pretty much only non US imports that are diesels, all the US cars are Co2 pumping planet warming petrol units.
The US car indsustry stands to profit from the elimination of the competition.
"Gaaadd daaammmm commie you-row-peeens".

Conspiracy theory? Me? Never.

 

[Californiaman]

I remember reading a while back that the US Army has standardised on diesel. According to the CIA factbook, in 2006 the Department of Defence used..
Wait for it...
4,600,000,000 US gallons annually.
Can't see them changing in a hurry!!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[Californiaman]

Anyway, it won't be long before Tesla come up with a viable electric conversion kit...

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[2into1]

I see very little risk to the older vans. Our emissions are well known and understood. What the scandal has done is to debunk the idea that the newer engines are clean.
I see the risk as far greater to the newer models - as there already are petrol versions of the T6 available as LHD.
People aren't going to stop wanting campervans because of this.
A sub £20k Westy isn't in the same market as a £55k replacement. My van is already banned from London; a few more cities isn't going to change much since a petrol replacement is £60k+
However, if I was putting £55k into a new diesel Cali, I may get a squeaky bum if the petrol Cali became available in the UK a month later. (Because from a depreciation point of view, all the demand will be drawn to the more popular petrol).

 

[sidepod]

However, if I was putting £55k into a new diesel Cali, I may get a squeaky bum if the petrol Cali became available in the UK a month later. (Because from a depreciation point of view, all the demand will be drawn to the more popular petrol).

Oooo, just for giggles, go and toss that particular grenade into the "thread from hell" over on the T5 forum.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

When the lynch mobs come after diesels we can just run on chip fat anyway. No one hates chips.

 

[WelshGas]

Frozen Chicken, Volkswagen,Commercial - Says it All.

http://www.npr.org/2015/06/19/41567...-changed-the-playing-field-for-u-s-automakers

 

[Skylark2.0]

If diesels were to be legislated "off the road" it would take years and years.

At the end of the day there is only one way to totally rid the world of harmful vehicle emissions and that is to get rid of private transport and what government anywhere in the world is going to legislate against the ownership of a motor car?

There are just too many diesels out there to rid European roads of them in even a generation.

Agree. What about all the big heavies and white van drivers that belch forth. We're nowhere near that.

 

[T6 CFO]

I see very little risk to the older vans. Our emissions are well known and understood. What the scandal has done is to debunk the idea that the newer engines are clean.
I see the risk as far greater to the newer models - as there already are petrol versions of the T6 available as LHD.
People aren't going to stop wanting campervans because of this.
A sub £20k Westy isn't in the same market as a £55k replacement. My van is already banned from London; a few more cities isn't going to change much since a petrol replacement is £60k+
However, if I was putting £55k into a new diesel Cali, I may get a squeaky bum if the petrol Cali became available in the UK a month later. (Because from a depreciation point of view, all the demand will be drawn to the more popular petrol).

And that T4WFA is my problem as I don't have one at the moment and am looking to buy. Fortunately as I was waiting anyway I can see how this develops.

 

[2into1]

And that T4WFA is my problem as I don't have one at the moment and am looking to buy. Fortunately as I was waiting anyway I can see how this develops.

Buy an oldie Michael and have less to worry about (oh and you'll be supporting the prices of our vans!).

 

[T6 CFO]

Buy an oldie Michael and have less to worry about (oh and you'll be supporting the prices of our vans!).

LOL! Yep it may become an option.

 

[sidepod]

You can have mine for £10k (it was £9k half an hour ago).
Mechanically perfect. Maintained regardless.

 

[sidepod]

Picking up speed nicely this thread......long way to go to match the T5 version.

Make it stop........ (unless it's about buying my van).

 

[T6 CFO]

You can have mine for £10k (it was £9k half an hour ago).
Mechanically perfect. Maintained regardless.

Maybe £8k in a couple of weeks

 

[T6 CFO]

Maybe £8k in a couple of weeks

 

[sidepod]

Still more than I paid for it

Joking aside, these vans are the bargain of the century! For some reason they've not attracted the crazy price tags of the previous three incarnations?
I've no idea what they cost new but after 21 years a price of between 8 and 11k is pretty good depreciation.

s.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

I've no idea what they cost new but after 21 years a price of between 8 and 11k is pretty good depreciation.

Hark at you youngsters with your late vans.