Tyre Wear and Rotation.

[WelshGas]

Many people advocate rotating Front and Rear tyres to even out the wear. However I have not adopted this practice on my 4Motion California and here is the evidence.

Vehicle - 180 4Motion SE Fully loaded for camping apart from some clothes and filling the Tank when actually camping. There are only 2 of us. Used as a Daily Driver. Milage covered since Tyres fitted 17,643 miles.

Tyres - Goodyear Cargo Vector 4 Seasons M&S 235/55 R 17 103H. Rear 44 psi Front 38 psi

Tread Depth measured with a Digital Gauge a 2 points 90o apart hence 8 points / tyre and then Mean Calculated.

New Tyres have a Tread Depth of 8 - 10mm for most tyres

Legal Limit is 1.6mm but most Tyre Experts suggest changing at 3mm.

Front Nearside 5.86 mm Front Offside 6.40 mm

Rear Nearside 6.26 mm Rear Offside 6.31 mm

It is well known that the Front Nearside can wear faster than the opposite side because we drive on the Left in the UK and Left turns are more acute than Right turns hence more scrubbing/wear of the tyre. The opposite is true in those countries that drive on the Right.

So - I will not be rotating Front to Rear BUT might consider swapping Front NS and Front OS, but there is a counter argument to doing that in that tyre wear into their position and there can be a difference in efficiency when moving them around until they have bedded in.

Seeing as I generally change tyre when they get to 3 - 4 mm tread depth I may just change all 4 when the Front Nearside gets down to 3 mm.

This may not, and probably does not hold true for the 2 Wheel Drive equivalent vehicle.

 

[Stoneybroke]

I'm sure you're aware Welshgas, but check whether the tyres are directional before swapping OS with NS - some are, some aren't, so it depends on the actual tyre tread pattern.

 

[WelshGas]

I'm sure you're aware Welshgas, but check whether the tyres are directional before swapping OS with NS - some are, some aren't, so it depends on the actual tyre tread pattern.

Thanks for your concern. These tyres are not rotational and anyway I'm disinclined to swap them and just change all 4 when one drops to 3 mm.

 

[Stoneybroke]

Thanks for your concern. These tyres are not rotational and anyway I'm disinclined to swap them and just change all 4 when one drops to 3 mm.

I agree, it is a bit of a faff!

 

[motacyclist]

Just had the health check video after our van service and they pointed out that the tryres were wearing on the outside edges, particularly on the rear.

I was aware of this and was thinking the alignment may be out. However, the technician suggested it was down to low tyre pressures. I always check the pressures regularly and keep them at lowest for comfort (e.g. Light loaded). Now I'm wondering if the furniture etc the Cali is carrying is in fact a heavy load and the pressures should be upped a bit. I did mention this to them but they said no, the sticker with the pressures on in the drivers door well is actually correct for the Cali. Who knows for sure .....

Anyway looks like at least 2 of the tyres need replacing very soon (12700 miles), was thinking of going for the 4 seasons WG has, in which case I guess I would need 4 tyres ..... or could I just stick 2 on the rear?

 

[WelshGas]

Just had the health check video after our van service and they pointed out that the tryres were wearing on the outside edges, particularly on the rear.

I was aware of this and was thinking the alignment may be out. However, the technician suggested it was down to low tyre pressures. I always check the pressures regularly and keep them at lowest for comfort (e.g. Light loaded). Now I'm wondering if the furniture etc the Cali is carrying is in fact a heavy load and the pressures should be upped a bit. I did mention this to them but they said no, the sticker with the pressures on in the drivers door well is actually correct for the Cali. Who knows for sure .....

Anyway looks like at least 2 of the tyres need replacing very soon (12700 miles), was thinking of going for the 4 seasons WG has, in which case I guess I would need 4 tyres ..... or could I just stick 2 on the rear?

I run mine at 44 R and 39 F. as on the label, 20,000 on this set of 4 Seasons and still have 2-3 mm of tread before a change will be required and thats at 3 mm tread for a change , or more if I took them to the legal limit.

Tread is level across each tyre, inside=outside=centre.

How accurate is your tyre pressure gauge?

 

[kave]

I always measure the tires thread depth and mount the tires with the most pattern left on the axle with most propulsion, ie on any california 4motion or 2wd it is on the front axle. I'd rather change all 4 tires at the same time than 2 tires. Since we change wheels two times every year it works out great, ie all 4 tires are at 3mm at the same time.
I have never noticed uneven wear on an axle.

 

[motacyclist]

How accurate is your tyre pressure gauge?

Well, the one on the pump agrees with the pencil type I have, and also an electronic one; so either they're all out or they're all right.

I'm inclined to think the alignment is out at the moment.

 

[motacyclist]

I always measure the tires thread depth and mount the tires with the most pattern left on the axle with most propulsion, ie on any california 4motion or 2wd it is on the front axle. I'd rather change all 4 tires at the same time than 2 tires. Since we change wheels two times every year it works out great, ie all 4 tires are at 3mm at the same time.
I have never noticed uneven wear on an axle.

When our previous 2wd Cali needed front tyres I took it to Costco. After fitting, without asking, they moved the part worn rear tyres to the front and put the new ones on the rear.

When I asked them why they said something to the effect that it was bad practice to have new tyres on the front and part worn on the rear. I would have thought it best to have the newest tyres on the steering/drive wheels but presumed they knew what they were talking about, so accepted it.

They also fitted bright green valve caps to all the wheels, because they had filled them with nitrogen. Murphy's Law, we had a puncture a couple of days later in one of the new tyres

 

[T6 CFO]

I would have thought same as you especially in my Touran which was a bit hungry on fronts but I think this was discussed on here before. Only recall because it prompted me to get a good quality tyre gauge and read around a bit.

Article from AA confirms the better tyres on rear policy.

Checked mine from new when cold and they were 44 front 42 rear on a 204 4Motion

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/car-tyres.html


Mike

 

[Teejay]

When our previous 2wd Cali needed front tyres I took it to Costco. After fitting, without asking, they moved the part worn rear tyres to the front and put the new ones on the rear.

When I asked them why they said something to the effect that it was bad practice to have new tyres on the front and part worn on the rear. I would have thought it best to have the newest tyres on the steering/drive wheels but presumed they knew what they were talking about, so accepted it.

They also fitted bright green valve caps to all the wheels, because they had filled them with nitrogen. Murphy's Law, we had a puncture a couple of days later in one of the new tyres

The reason that worn go on the front is to do with oversteer/understeer. Understeer is more predictable and more controllable than oversteer. Over steer is often overcome with more power which is alien to inexperienced drivers.

..message ends...

 

[kave]

Well, tire salesmen like to sell tires of course. If you alternate between front and rear every year I dont see a problem. The tires will be evenly worn and can be changed all 4 at the same time. I see different tires front and rear as a bigger issue.
Regarding under and oversteer, the cali is really understeer and could use some help anyway Seriously, the esp system will handle that problem.

 

[briwy]

Just had the health check video after our van service and they pointed out that the tryres were wearing on the outside edges, particularly on the rear.

I was aware of this and was thinking the alignment may be out. However, the technician suggested it was down to low tyre pressures. I always check the pressures regularly and keep them at lowest for comfort (e.g. Light loaded). Now I'm wondering if the furniture etc the Cali is carrying is in fact a heavy load and the pressures should be upped a bit. I did mention this to them but they said no, the sticker with the pressures on in the drivers door well is actually correct for the Cali. Who knows for sure .....

Anyway looks like at least 2 of the tyres need replacing very soon (12700 miles), was thinking of going for the 4 seasons WG has, in which case I guess I would need 4 tyres ..... or could I just stick 2 on the rear?

Well our rear tyres wore on the inside edge. Dealer tried to say it was because we have air suspension fitted but this is a load of crap.
Looks as if the manufacturing tolerances are too big and unfortunately the camber can't be altered.

 

[motacyclist]

Well our rear tyres wore on the inside edge. Dealer tried to say it was because we have air suspension fitted

More likely caused by Brexit

 

[Days out]

More likely caused by Brexit

Surely Brexit would have caused the Left side to wear only?

 

[Pineweasel]

Well our rear tyres wore on the inside edge. Dealer tried to say it was because we have air suspension fitted but this is a load of crap.
Looks as if the manufacturing tolerances are too big and unfortunately the camber can't be altered.

This happened to mine too, a standard 140 SE with 17" wheels. The tyre place said it was a well known problem on many VWs, not just Transporters.

 

[pluc99]

I bought 5 Michelin CrossClimate2 All Year tires with the intention of replacing the new factory ones as soon as my 4M Ocean DSG 150PS van is delivered and selling the original ones.

As these tires are directional, I'm not sure how to cope with the spare. Whichever direction I have it mounted for will likely be the wrong one in the event of a flat (Murphy). In this case I would treat it as a temporary solution and drive accordingly until I can have a mechanic switch it around at the earliest opportunity.

But what about tire rotation? I'm thinking of having the spare mounted for the kerb side, which according to what I understood from @WelshGas above is the more heavily wearing side. I would then do a 3 wheel rotation there and a 2 wheel rotation on the driver's side.

Does this make sense or should I be developing a full 5 wheel rotation scheme that includes a tire direction switch whenever needed?

 

[WelshGas]

I bought 5 Michelin CrossClimate2 All Year tires with the intention of replacing the new factory ones as soon as my 4M Ocean DSG 150PS van is delivered and selling the original ones.

As these tires are directional, I'm not sure how to cope with the spare. Whichever direction I have it mounted for will likely be the wrong one in the event of a flat (Murphy). In this case I would treat it as a temporary solution and drive accordingly until I can have a mechanic switch it around at the earliest opportunity.

But what about tire rotation? I'm thinking of having the spare mounted for the kerb side, which according to what I understood from @WelshGas above is the more heavily wearing side. I would then do a 3 wheel rotation there and a 2 wheel rotation on the driver's side.

Does this make sense or should I be developing a full 5 wheel rotation scheme that includes a tire direction switch whenever needed?

I don’t bother rotating as the tyres seem to wear pretty uniformly front to rear, side to side. I tend to change all 4 when one gets to 3 mm tread depth. That’s my choice and so far it’s worked out that they are changed in late autumn, so maximum tread for winter.

 

[B J G]

Logical thing done by many, myself included, is to use a non rotational All season tyre such as the Vredestein for a spare. Too late in your 5 tyre purchase process.

Like @WelshGas I do not favour swapping tyres around.
It can mask a wheel alignment problem. Moving a tyre to another position to be replaced by another tyre which then suffers the same fate.
A tyre worn on one side when fitted to another position will only have the deeper tread area in full contact with the road until it wears down to match that position.

I recall a case where a Friend swapped uneven tyres around only to spin the car on the first wet sharp corner. Driving as he would do before the swap around.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I just live with the 50/50 probability that I'll get the puncture on the "wrong" side. Okay not quite 50/50 as you're more likely to get a puncture on the nearside.

As I said the other day on a similar thread, there's little real difference in how the V-treaded tyres perform regardless of direction, except on snow.

The notion that you'll fly into the scenery if you don't have precisely the same tyres, the right way round, on each corner has to presume that the road surface is similarly uniform. Which of course is nonsense.

The main safety factors with tyres are (1) keep them blown up, and (2) don't drive like a tw@t.

 

[GrannyJen]

I've new worked out all the "directional" arguments.

All my wheels go round, and they all go round in the same direction, and I've always considered the most important factor to staying on the road, or the off-road bit I want to stay on, is to drive within the limits of conditions and vehicles.

I've never swapped tyres around, if I did how on earth would I spot uneven tyre wear? Apart from anything else if my vehicle saw me approaching it with a jack and wrench it would volunteer itself for the breakers yard before I put it there.

One of the nicest things in the world is to wake up well from the beaten track where nature is wild, the weather unforgiving, knowing I have heat in the van, gas for the cooker, battery power for the lights and wheels with shoes on that will get me out of there, preferably all going in the same direction.

 

[sidepod]

Logical thing done by many, myself included, is to use a non rotational All season tyre such as the Vredestein for a spare. Too late in your 5 tyre purchase process.

Like @WelshGas I do not favour swapping tyres around.
It can mask a wheel alignment problem. Moving a tyre to another position to be replaced by another tyre which then suffers the same fate.
A tyre worn on one side when fitted to another position will only have the deeper tread area in full contact with the road until it wears down to match that position.

I recall a case where a Friend swapped uneven tyres around only to spin the car on the first wet sharp corner. Driving as he would do before the swap around.

I think someone has been watching too much F1.