update on stuck wheels

[MartG]

If that's correct then surely all the wheel types when brand new would be an equally tight fit. including the steel rims. whereas I've had 2 new types of genuine alloys + a second hand set of steels yet only one type of alloy is a tight fit & then only on the rear hubs.

You're right - the wheels will fully centre once the wheel nuts are tightened on the nuts tapering faces. The vehicles load is taken on the face between the hub and wheel when correctly tightened, NOT the hub centre. Aftermarket wheels use spigot rings to help centre a wheel which has a larger centre hole, often made of plastic, their purpose is only to aid the centring before doing up the nuts.

 

[Bajers]

Hi Guys,
Read this thread the other day and based on cars I have had in the past with the same issue, I decided to try to take the wheels off the van to-day.
It's not quite a year old yet, but I am sure it had been stood wherever for a few months before I bought it so I reckoned the wheels had not been off since manufacture.
All 4 wheels were well stuck on, rears more so for some reason and it took me ages to break the 'seal'.
The method I used to get them off, and this is probably controversial but has always worked for me in the past, is by using a 2m long piece of 4x2 laid on the actual alloy rim, not on the tyre. I then used a sledgehammer on the other end of the 4x2, very, very carefully, one knock at a time until the wheel loosens. Obviously keep the wheel nuts a few turns in place so the wheel does not fly off. I have always found the alloy rim to be best as the rubber tyre absorbs the impact of the blow and is not very effective. All alloys are fine, no damage done and I then sanded off the rust with wet and dry on the hub face and back of wheel and especially around the spigot as above photo. I then applied plenty of coppa slip to the mating faces and spigots, but as above, not on the wheel bolts.
Torqued to 180nM and jobs done.
Just think its worth reminding owners, and whatever method you prefer, if you have not had your wheels off, to check them yourselves or have it done professionally as there is not a cat in hells chance of doing this at the roadside/middle of night in the pouring rain or in some far away campsite!
Also, a reminder of the absolutely hopeless tool kit that comes as standard as I can see no way you would undo the wheel bolts using the standard pressed steel wrench.
A great idea detailed above about upgrading which I have done with a Britool 19mm 6 face socket and breaker bar.
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Barry.

 

[TripleBee]

You're right - the wheels will fully centre once the wheel nuts are tightened on the nuts tapering faces. The vehicles load is taken on the face between the hub and wheel when correctly tightened, NOT the hub centre. Aftermarket wheels use spigot rings to help centre a wheel which has a larger centre hole, often made of plastic, their purpose is only to aid the centring before doing up the nuts.

Try to put on a wheel with a too wide center hub. Tighten the bolts correctly and go driving. You will certainly have a lot of unbalance when driving.
The bolts keep the wheel tightened to the vehicle, but the center hub makes the wheel to stay in place. Otherwise it will slightly float around while driving.

 

[Swiss Cheese]

How long does it generally take before the alloys get stuck?
We got our Beach in February, around April I swapped the steel wheels with winter tyres over to alloys with summer tyres, no issues of course. By November I need to remove the alloys (summer) and put the steels (winter) back on. Should I expect any issues?

 

[burnercan]

How long does it generally take before the alloys get stuck?
We got our Beach in February, around April I swapped the steel wheels with winter tyres over to alloys with summer tyres, no issues of course. By November I need to remove the alloys (summer) and put the steels (winter) back on. Should I expect any issues?

I had my winter alloys installed at a garage in October. They were stuck near solid by June when I put the summers back on. I cleaned the hubs and wheels of corrosion with a brass brush then treated the mating surfaces with JC5-A hightemp anti-seize compound. In my experience, this solves the problem.

The salty environment of our winter roads accelerates this though, so your summers will probably come off easily.

 

[GSX1300R]

Just like many people on here I had the same problem. Ive got 17" Cascavel alloys which I bought new about a year and a half ago. When it came to change the brake fluid I thought I would swap the wheels round at the same time. Tried the rear furthest away from the master cylinder thinking it would just come off if I loosened the bolts and jacked it up. NO WAY was it going to budge. In the end i jacked it up so that I could get blocks of wood under the suspension arm lowered it down so the wheel was just off the ground and the jack was free then hit the tyre on the inside a bit at a time while turning the wheel with a sledge hammer taking great car not to go anywhere near the alloy wheel. After about 5 minutes of slamming it eventually started to move then a bit at a time and it eventually came off. Before putting them back on I cleaned up the brake disc Hub centre and the alloy wheel and put the smallest smear of HMP grease on both surfaces. I have done about 500 miles since then and am now going to see how easy it is to take the wheels off....Keeping my fingers crossed .....

 

[GSX1300R]

Ok so Ive just taken 2 of the wheels off of the van and they came off perfectly. There was no migration of the HMP grease. I didn't expect there would be with the tiniest smear i put on. It looks just the same as the day I did it.
I can rest easy no knowing that if I do have a flat Im not going to need a workshop full of tools to get them off..

 

[B J G]

I had my winter alloys installed at a garage in October. They were stuck near solid by June when I put the summers back on. I cleaned the hubs and wheels of corrosion with a brass brush then treated the mating surfaces with JC5-A hightemp anti-seize compound. In my experience, this solves the problem.

The salty environment of our winter roads accelerates this though, so your summers will probably come off easily.

 

[Bjohnson]

I changed all my wheels last week when I fitted my new 18" wheels..

I had one front wheel off a couple months ago as posted on here, it was a pig. When I refitted I wire brushed the mating surfaces and applied the lightest smear of hmp grease. That wheel came off with no trouble this time round.

The other three wheels were a complete night,are to get off, the last wheel being a particular pig to remove!!

I wouldn't be at all keen trying to swap a wheel on the side of the road, in the dark, in the rain using the standard jack!!!

 

[soulstyledevon]

Anyone know the official recommended bolt torque numbers for re-tightening...?

 

[GSX1300R]

I changed all my wheels last week when I fitted my new 18" wheels..

I had one front wheel off a couple months ago as posted on here, it was a pig. When I refitted I wire brushed the mating surfaces and applied the lightest smear of hmp grease. That wheel came off with no trouble this time round.

The other three wheels were a complete night,are to get off, the last wheel being a particular pig to remove!!

I wouldn't be at all keen trying to swap a wheel on the side of the road, in the dark, in the rain using the standard jack!!!

I was thinking exactly the same thing as far as changing the wheel in the rain at night...It’s ok to say “I’ve got breakdown cover” but if it’s on a motorway in France it’s going to cost you a couple of hundred Euro’s as everyone knows you have to use the French motorway breakdown service...Also in some remote area on a Sunday night...It’s just nice to know that your wheel actually comes off easily so you could do it yourself..

 

[briwy]

Anyone know the official recommended bolt torque numbers for re-tightening...?

180Nm dry

 

[GSX1300R]

180Nm dry

Unless you take a torque wrench with you tightening the wheel nuts is going to be a bit hit and miss. I imagine the only Time they get tightened properly is in the factory. I’ve never seen anyone use a torque wrench when I’ve taken my cars in for a tyre change.. They always use an air gun which they say you aren’t really supposed to use on alloys....could be wrong of coarse...

 

[B J G]

180Nm dry

Or 130lbsft in post 31st October speak

 

[B J G]

Unless you take a torque wrench with you tightening the wheel nuts is going to be a bit hit and miss. I imagine the only Time they get tightened properly is in the factory. I’ve never seen anyone use a torque wrench when I’ve taken my cars in for a tyre change.. They always use an air gun which they say you aren’t really supposed to use on alloys....could be wrong of coarse...

Wheels should be retorqued after 100 miles (approx). 3 out of the 20 moved on my last check.

Air guns are should never be used to set torque. Unless you are in the F1 price/quality of equipment.

 

[Bjohnson]

180Nm as noted above - its listed in the owners handbook but I also write it on the ratings plate inside the drivers door for quick reference. I use the torque wrench at home when i change wheels and to check correct torque settings. I think its noted in the forum somewhere, but dont apply 180Nm to the locking wheel bolt, something a bit less is usually ok.

 

[B J G]

180Nm as noted above - its listed in the owners handbook but I also write it on the ratings plate inside the drivers door for quick reference. I use the torque wrench at home when i change wheels and to check correct torque settings. I think its noted in the forum somewhere, but dont apply 180Nm to the locking wheel bolt, something a bit less is usually ok.

Why have a 'loose' nut? With a deep hex socket and a bar plus care there is no problem with lock nuts. Tool kit tool is potentially lethal to lock nuts I agree.

 

[Doorbundle]

My Cali is a year old now, should I remove the wheels and check them to avoid as far as possible the rainy night scenario?

 

[briwy]

My Cali is a year old now, should I remove the wheels and check them to avoid as far as possible the rainy night scenario?

I would yes, definitely, and check the spare is the correct pressure, and that you know how to get the spare out.

 

[B J G]

Give the spare a good wax coating inside and out to help keep rust at bay.
When refitting the spare ensure that the valve is at the rear, nearest the bumper, for future pressure checks.

 

[TripleBee]

Wheels should be retorqued after 100 miles (approx). 3 out of the 20 moved on my last check.

Air guns are should never be used to set torque. Unless you are in the F1 price/quality of equipment.

Air guns are good to release the bolts (except the anti theft), and to drive them back in, without tightening them, but it should always be checked with a torque wrench afterwards.

 

[TripleBee]

Give the spare a good wax coating inside and out to help keep rust at bay.
When refitting the spare ensure that the valve is at the rear, nearest the bumper, for future pressure checks.

What do you mean?

 

[B J G]

What do you mean?

View attachment 48419

If done from new it won't get into that condition, better still would be to give a proper coat of paint.

 

[B J G]

Air guns are good to release the bolts (except the anti theft), and to drive them back in, without tightening them, but it should always be checked with a torque wrench afterwards.

Most commercial air guns set to an unknown high torque figure and used to both undo and then do up the wheel bolts. Checking with a torque wrench merely breaks at the preset figure but gives no warning indication if the bolt is set to a higher torque. That's usually why a subsequent roadside puncture wheel replacement fails due to being unable to loosen the bolts with the normal wheel brace.

Recall the scenario when a phone call from my Daughter, who had a Beetle at the time, to say she needed help as she'd had a puncture and couldn't undo the wheel nuts. Assuming the typical chauvinist role I went out fully armed with breaker bar, extension bar, socket and trolley jack. It took the breaker bar with the trolley jack handle on it to undo the wheel nuts.
Later check on the other 3 wheels when back home confirmed that all wheels were the same.

 

[AlanC]

The tyre company I used last did use a torque wrench but I suspect the setting was a little random. They didn’t ask what is should be set to.

I always go round loosening the bolts in turn and tightening them to the right torque myself after a visit to the tyre shop. I have a decent Draper 19 mm socket and torque wrench. Only takes a few minutes for some peace of mind.

I am becoming more and more OCD in my old age though!

Alan