Wild camping outlawed

[Amarillo]

A court has decided that camping on Dartmoor without the consent of the landowner is unlawful.

Right to wild camp in England lost in Dartmoor court case | Access to green space | The Guardian

Wealthy landowner Alexander Darwall wins case against national park after arguing right to pitch tent on moors did not exist

amp.theguardian.com

 

[dspuk]

Is it not saying the right to camp on Dartmoor without consent was never lawful?

 

[andyinluton]

Or slightly less sensationalist, there’s about 3% of Dartmoor that you are not allowed to camp on without the landowners permission.

 

[MattC]

Or slightly less sensationalist, there’s about 3% of Dartmoor that you are not allowed to camp on without the landowners permission.

I don't think that's correct. Although the landowner who brought the case may only own 3%, the judge has ruled on the bye-law for the national park which allowed for access on foot or horse for the purpose of undertaking outdoor recreation. By ruling that camping in a tent is not included in outdoor recreation he has effectively removed that legal right from the entire area.
Roll on the appeal....

 

[Amarillo]

Or slightly less sensationalist, there’s about 3% of Dartmoor that you are not allowed to camp on without the landowners permission.

No. It affects the whole of Dartmoor where wild camping had previously be presumed a right.

To wild camp lawfully you will need the consent of the landowner.

 

[chockswahay]

Glad I live in Scotland where it IS allowed ……. Everywhere

 

[The Tall Luthier]

Imagine being a hedge fund manager with 4,000 Dartmoor acres and hating people that much you go to court to curtail their access!

Words fail me!

Actually they don’t, but this is a respectable forum.

 

[andyinluton]

Imagine being a hedge fund manager with 4,000 Dartmoor acres and hating people that much you go to court to curtail their access!

Words fail me!

Actually they don’t, but this is a respectable forum.

He has not stopped access, only prevented overnight camping.

 

[The Tall Luthier]

He has not stopped access, only prevented overnight camping.

Curtail
kər-tāl′

transitive verb​

1. To cut short or reduce: synonym: shorten.
2. To cut off the end or tail, or any part, of; to shorten; to abridge; to diminish; to reduce.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The ‘establishment’ eroding common people’s freedoms.

It’s a dark day and a very very sad one too.
This country is going backwards…

 

[andyinluton]

No. It affects the whole of Dartmoor where wild camping had previously be presumed a right.

To wild camp lawfully you will need the consent of the landowner.

The BBC seems to think differently.

Firstly we have the headline:

"Historic wild camping tradition outlawed on part of Dartmoor"

Then we have the detail:

"The area of land on Dartmoor covered by the Dartmoor Commons Act 1985 is around 86,000 acres (348 sq km). Wild camping was previously permitted in approximately 71,000 acres (287 sq km).
Now out of bounds to those wishing to stay out overnight unless the Darwalls give their permission is a remote area of land called Stall Moor, covering 2,800 acres (11 sq km)."

 

[soulstyledevon]

The landowner who runs a lucrative shoot. Has that bit been mentioned…?

 

[WelshGas]

Well there wouldn't have been a court case if the " Wild Campers " followed the Guide Lines and left no mess. Instead they left their " S**t " for others to clean up.

 

[bvddobb]

Glad I live in Scotland where it IS allowed ……. Everywhere

Well, there's talk to change the law there too, isn't there? I don't think it's the odd tent camper that is at the source of the issue, really. There are just too many campers around, with sometimes just awful behaviour by their owners. Locals are getting fed up with them. The 'no camping' signs are sprouting everywhere across Europe.

 

[Amarillo]

The BBC seems to think differently.

Firstly we have the headline:

"Historic wild camping tradition outlawed on part of Dartmoor"

Then we have the detail:

"The area of land on Dartmoor covered by the Dartmoor Commons Act 1985 is around 86,000 acres (348 sq km). Wild camping was previously permitted in approximately 71,000 acres (287 sq km).
Now out of bounds to those wishing to stay out overnight unless the Darwalls give their permission is a remote area of land called Stall Moor, covering 2,800 acres (11 sq km)."

The current interpretation of the law applies equally to all 71,000 acres, not just the Darwall’s 2,800 acres.

It might be that the owners of the other 68,200 acres give consent, but consent can be withdrawn.

 

[Amarillo]

Well there wouldn't have been a court case if the " Wild Campers " followed the Guide Lines and left no mess. Instead they left their " S**t " for others to clean up.

That is already unlawful and covered by other laws, so a bit of a strawman.

 

[Amarillo]

Well, there's talk to change the law there too, isn't there? I don't think it's the odd tent camper that is at the source of the issue, really. There are just too many campers around, with sometimes just awful behaviour by their owners. Locals are getting fed up with them. The 'no camping' signs are sprouting everywhere across Europe.

Dartmoor is wilderness.

In 1981 and again in 1982 (aged 14 and 15) I completed the Ten Tors walk. A 35 mile backpack around Dartmoor, camping out overnight.

This is now outlawed unless landowners of the various plots across Dartmoor give their consent.

I think about 2000 children under 18 take part each year, and until this recent court ruling, Dartmoor was the only place in England or Wales where this sort of challenge was lawful.

 

[chockswahay]

Well, there's talk to change the law there too, isn't there? I don't think it's the odd tent camper that is at the source of the issue, really. There are just too many campers around, with sometimes just awful behaviour by their owners. Locals are getting fed up with them. The 'no camping' signs are sprouting everywhere across Europe.

I was only referring to tent camping, not campervans. As it happens there is a lot of negative press about motorcampers in Scotland...... most of it is simply media dross...... most of the locals have no problem with it. As for the law no it won't change, it is a Right to Roam and fiercely protected.

 

[5i1ver8ack]

Useful:

Camping Map | Dartmoor

_______________

www.dartmoor.gov.uk

 

[WelshGas]

That is already unlawful and covered by other laws, so a bit of a strawman.

But not enforced by the authorities who leave it to others to clean up.

 

[WelshGas]

Dartmoor is wilderness.

In 1981 and again in 1982 (aged 14 and 15) I completed the Ten Tors walk. A 35 mile backpack around Dartmoor, camping out overnight.

This is now outlawed unless landowners of the various plots across Dartmoor give their consent.

I think about 2000 children under 18 take part each year, and until this recent court ruling, Dartmoor was the only place in England or Wales where this sort of challenge was lawful.

And as it is an organised event I'm sure the organisers can make the necessary arrangements and get the necessary permission.
No different to when I was in the Scouts when we used to get the necessary permission from farmers and landowners. It was never a problem as we followed a Code of Practice.
The problem has been created by the " To**ers " who don't. Vent your fury on them not the Landowners who have to clean up after them so the rest of us can enjoy the outdoors without having to look out for the chemical effluent from porta potties, used barbecues and whatever else the " wild camper " has dumped.

 

[Loz2286]

Once again an issue of a big broad brush and a whole heap of tar. Unfortunately it might go the way of green-laning where a gobshite disrespectful minority ruined it for the overwhelmingly careful majority.

 

[Cali Phillip]

Well, there's talk to change the law there too, isn't there? I don't think it's the odd tent camper that is at the source of the issue, really. There are just too many campers around, with sometimes just awful behaviour by their owners. Locals are getting fed up with them. The 'no camping' signs are sprouting everywhere across Europe.

Good then there are an increasing number of aires springing up in the UK with the help of https://campra.org.uk/

 

[Cali Phillip]

Dartmoor is wilderness.

In 1981 and again in 1982 (aged 14 and 15) I completed the Ten Tors walk. A 35 mile backpack around Dartmoor, camping out overnight.

This is now outlawed unless landowners of the various plots across Dartmoor give their consent.

I think about 2000 children under 18 take part each year, and until this recent court ruling, Dartmoor was the only place in England or Wales where this sort of challenge was lawful.

Thats what I thought it was sad the lack of opportunities like DOE that get affected

 

[Amarillo]

And as it is an organised event I'm sure the organisers can make the necessary arrangements and get the necessary permission.
No different to when I was in the Scouts when we used to get the necessary permission from farmers and landowners. It was never a problem as we followed a Code of Practice.
The problem has been created by the " To**ers " who don't. Vent your fury on them not the Landowners who have to clean up after them so the rest of us can enjoy the outdoors without having to look out for the chemical effluent from porta potties, used barbecues and whatever else the " wild camper " has dumped.

We’d do at least two overnight camps on Dartmoor preparing for the Ten Tors, so even if landowners give their consent for camping for the main event, the 400 or so teams will still need individual consent from the landowner to train.