Roof Seal Corrosion T6.1

[Go Zizzz]

My June 2021 Ocean has issues with the front roof seal (along the front edge of the elevating roof). It has lifted in 3 places and it appears that the metal strip that reinforces the rubber is rusting and expanding, which pushes the seal up and of course lets more moisture in. I've mentioned this to my dealer who has said that he is not aware of this happening with any other recent vehicles but it had been an issue up to 2019 on T6s. I'm not so sure that I'm unique in my experience as there are others who have posted identical pictures on social media. Now I accept that faults do happen but of course I want the correct remedial action to be taken so that it won't happen again.
Anybody else had this happen on a T6.1? You might like to check as it's not obvious from eye level. I'd also like to know if any particular dealership is aware of this. I've been speaking to Breeze Poole who I think have a good reputation for knowing Californias and their foibles.

 

[Perfectos]

The seal used on ALL CALIS is the original design

the dealer should know this as it’s been an issue since Cali production started.

the dealer is instructed by VW to replace any roof seal that exhibits damage or rust , failure to do So will result in Bi metallic corrosion of the roof.

if, as you suggest, your dealer is unaware of this (highly unlikely) I would suggest you find another dealer, if on the other hand your dealer is aware of this I would suggest they are being disingenuous Or a new member of staff whom is miss informed
@Tomdbreeze

Edit: you should send those photo to the dealer ASAP.

yours is severe and needs addressing urgently.

search the forum for a plethora of other threads

keep the thread updated to help others.

 

[Perfectos]

Avoiding roof corrosion?

Yes still on seal #4 I had one seal fail in exactly the same spot as in your photo that is classic rust in the seal, get it cleaned off ASAP, look at the seal recess in the corresponding spot where the rust has transferred to the roof. dry the seal fully (leave it off until the seal is fully...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Viktorgeorge]

The seal used on ALL CALIS is the original design

the dealer should know this as it’s been an issue since Cali production started.

the dealer is instructed by VW to replace any roof seal that exhibits damage or rust , failure to do So will result in Bi metallic corrosion of the roof.

if, as you suggest, your dealer is unaware of this (highly unlikely) I would suggest you find another dealer, if on the other hand your dealer is aware of this I would suggest they are being disingenuous Or a new member of staff whom is miss informed
@Tomdbreeze

Edit: you should send those photo to the dealer ASAP.

yours is severe and needs addressing urgently.

search the forum for a plethora of other threads

keep the thread updated to help others.

@Perfectos has been been helpful to me over a similar problem - in my case I found the rusty seal this May after 7 months from new: see my post at #80 in the separate posting link which he provided above; although the whole string is worth studying.

I am keeping that string updated on my ongoing discussions with VW Commercial Ipswich. Perhaps you might go over to that string and keep that updated too?

 

[Perfectos]

I have every faith In Breeze contacting you and making the situation right.
I can only assume you spoke to someone who is not aware of the history of VWs ongoing failure regarding the seal.

To Toms credit he contributes to this forum even when the flack is flying.

try contacting Breeze again?

 

[Go Zizzz]

Thanks for that. It is as I thought. I have replied to the warranty manager at Breeze with some pictures and more detail. I am of course disappointed at this happening in an otherwise superb vehicle but I do want the process of fixing it to run as smoothly as possible with as little inconvenience to me as possible. It takes a day of my life to get the van to Breeze and I'd rather only do that once. This means that I would need re-assurance that the fix was going to be done correctly and promptly. I'm certainly going to be patient and give them a chance. Will keep forum posted.
BTW Tom@Breeze appears to be in sales so I don't think this is his area.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

It seems odd that after all these years we still have the problem of faulty roof seals. There must be a simple solution out there. Maybe use plastic instead of steel . This must have cost VW millions over the years.

 

[Perfectos]

Thanks for that. It is as I thought. I have replied to the warranty manager at Breeze with some pictures and more detail. I am of course disappointed at this happening in an otherwise superb vehicle but I do want the process of fixing it to run as smoothly as possible with as little inconvenience to me as possible. It takes a day of my life to get the van to Breeze and I'd rather only do that once. This means that I would need re-assurance that the fix was going to be done correctly and promptly. I'm certainly going to be patient and give them a chance. Will keep forum posted.
BTW Tom@Breeze appears to be in sales so I don't think this is his area.

The fix is a very simple one, take the old seal off throw it in the bin, open the new packet & fit the new one , it will take a very short time to do it, just make sure they have a roof seal In Stock before you travel !
VWs warranty system means that the dealer has to have the Van at the garage to carry out a compliant inspection and report to VW, before the warranty claim is approved by VW !
in reality once your van is at the dealers they can see the failure, agree it’s failed & should agree and fit the new seal there and then.

Edit: Tom is a good guy and represents the Breeze Business on the Forum (despite him coming in for some grief sometimes)

 

[Gina-B]

Do we have any idea what causes this problem in the first place? It seems to be quite common.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

‘Galvanic corrosion’.

If you want to understand this metallic reaction, and don’t yet, you will need to do some research. There is a lot of information on this forum if you search.

Put simply, different metals react with each other, and the weaker (more ‘base’) one self-destructs. Isolating them from each other is not as easy as you might think.

 

[Footy69]

My June 2021 Ocean has issues with the front roof seal (along the front edge of the elevating roof). It has lifted in 3 places and it appears that the metal strip that reinforces the rubber is rusting and expanding, which pushes the seal up and of course lets more moisture in. I've mentioned this to my dealer who has said that he is not aware of this happening with any other recent vehicles but it had been an issue up to 2019 on T6s. I'm not so sure that I'm unique in my experience as there are others who have posted identical pictures on social media. Now I accept that faults do happen but of course I want the correct remedial action to be taken so that it won't happen again.
Anybody else had this happen on a T6.1? You might like to check as it's not obvious from eye level. I'd also like to know if any particular dealership is aware of this. I've been speaking to Breeze Poole who I think have a good reputation for knowing Californias and their foibles.
View attachment 111501View attachment 111503

Hi Graham, my Cali has same problem, it’s a 2021 . Vw in Glasgow are going to replace , how did u get on with yours, Glasgow say it takes two days, but for me that’s an overnight stay as 100 miles away. Thanks,Gary.

 

[RockinNRollin]

‘Galvanic corrosion’.

If you want to understand this metallic reaction, and don’t yet, you will need to do some research. There is a lot of information on this forum if you search.

Put simply, different metals react with each other, and the weaker (more ‘base’) one self-destructs. Isolating them from each other is not as easy as you might think.

Unless the paint seal is broken on the roof, this won't be galvanic corrosion. Once the metal is exposed on the seal (naff design, thin rubber etc.) it rusts and becomes abrasive, then it could wear away the paint (unless the paint is already worn for some other reason) - once metal is exposed and you have the steel and aluminium both exposed and with water able to bridge the gap, you'll get galvanic corrosion with the roof being the sacrificial metal unfortunately.

The seal design crops up elsewhere; the tailgate is metal reinforced, as is the door seal . . . I suspect all of the aperture seals are like this. The roof seal seems particularly prone, I assume because of the forces on it and how it closes compared with a door (which compresses it perpendicularly). Unfortunately steel is cheap and malleable so it's perfect for this application. The issue is there's insufficient "rubber cover" to the steel elements so the rubber tears/perishes and allows moisture in and then you're on a downhill slope without chance of recovery.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Hi Graham, my Cali has same problem, it’s a 2021 . Vw in Glasgow are going to replace , how did u get on with yours, Glasgow say it takes two days, but for me that’s an overnight stay as 100 miles away. Thanks,Gary.

I have an October 2022 delivered Ocean which had the same problem. I posted quite a lot starting at the link below (as have others before and after that posting):

Avoiding roof corrosion?

Yes still on seal #4 I had one seal fail in exactly the same spot as in your photo that is classic rust in the seal, get it cleaned off ASAP, look at the seal recess in the corresponding spot where the rust has transferred to the roof. dry the seal fully (leave it off until the seal is fully...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

My experience of VW technicians, unless they know the California well, is that may mahandle the seal so that you will get the same problems again (a full study of all postings in the link I give above recommended), as you already know it is all to do with the steel reinforcement 'breaking' out of the rubber cover.

If you can get a VW approved body shop to do the work that might be better, assuming you are doing this under warranty.

The seal comes flat, and has to be formed to the front profile of the raising roof. This is the principal problem area (though the steel reinforcement is all the way around). One tip is to get the rubber seal really warm (so flexible) before fitting. Rackhams Ipswich put it in their paint bake ovens (at a low temperature!) and also used a hot air gun as they moulded the front.

The link above also has comments about using a rust inhibitor - Lanoguard, Waxoyl etc. - and regular inspections. I experimented with Lanoguard on a new seal and found an issue with the seal no longer having enough grip to stay in place. My experiments continue, I think it may be a question of letting the Lanoguard dry more before refitting the seal, plus letting the new seal fully adopt its shape first.

Hope things go well, keep posting with your progress as there is a lot of interest. This is a problem since the first of the current shape California, the seal being unchanged since circa 2004 apparently.

 

[Footy69]

I have an October 2022 delivered Ocean which had the same problem. I posted quite a lot starting at the link below (as have others before and after that posting):

Avoiding roof corrosion?

Yes still on seal #4 I had one seal fail in exactly the same spot as in your photo that is classic rust in the seal, get it cleaned off ASAP, look at the seal recess in the corresponding spot where the rust has transferred to the roof. dry the seal fully (leave it off until the seal is fully...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

My experience of VW technicians, unless they know the California well, is that may mahandle the seal so that you will get the same problems again (a full study of all postings in the link I give above recommended), as you already know it is all to do with the steel reinforcement 'breaking' out of the rubber cover.

If you can get a VW approved body shop to do the work that might be better, assuming you are doing this under warranty.

The seal comes flat, and has to be formed to the front profile of the raising roof. This is the principal problem area (though the steel reinforcement is all the way around). One tip is to get the rubber seal really warm (so flexible) before fitting. Rackhams Ipswich put it in their paint bake ovens (at a low temperature!) and also used a hot air gun as they moulded the front.

The link above also has comments about using a rust inhibitor - Lanoguard, Waxoyl etc. - and regular inspections. I experimented with Lanoguard on a new seal and found an issue with the seal no longer having enough grip to stay in place. My experiments continue, I think it may be a question of letting the Lanoguard dry more before refitting the seal, plus letting the new seal fully adopt its shape first.

Hope things go well, keep posting with your progress as there is a lot of interest. This is a problem since the first of the current shape California, the seal being unchanged since circa 2004 apparently.

Hi , it is a vw commercial garage that I took it to. Hopefully should b done right. On holiday few weeks age ,I met a lad who works in VWCV in Germany, who does these all the time. He said it was a recall. Does them in a day. That would b good for me. . Gary.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Unless the paint seal is broken on the roof, this won't be galvanic corrosion. Once the metal is exposed on the seal (naff design, thin rubber etc.) it rusts and becomes abrasive, then it could wear away the paint (unless the paint is already worn for some other reason) - once metal is exposed and you have the steel and aluminium both exposed and with water able to bridge the gap, you'll get galvanic corrosion with the roof being the sacrificial metal unfortunately.

The seal design crops up elsewhere; the tailgate is metal reinforced, as is the door seal . . . I suspect all of the aperture seals are like this. The roof seal seems particularly prone, I assume because of the forces on it and how it closes compared with a door (which compresses it perpendicularly). Unfortunately steel is cheap and malleable so it's perfect for this application. The issue is there's insufficient "rubber cover" to the steel elements so the rubber tears/perishes and allows moisture in and then you're on a downhill slope without chance of recovery.

I agree generally, with you, including that glavanic corrosion only occurs once there is bi-metal contact. However, the roof seal in my case had exposed steel reinforcement apparently from new, and my VW dealer managed to replicate that with a new replacement seal too: plus in the latter case also damaging my paintwork.

It is possible that there is microscopic damage to the paint from new.

I am a new owner, so inexperienced, but regular checking (and exchange at £90 per time approximately) of this seal seems to make sense. Also, perhaps, rust inhibitor and tape on the fourth front edge.

So yes, when I answered ‘galvanic corrosion’ above that was an incorrect answer to ‘what causes the problem’ but it is often the end result once the rubber cover to the steel is broken - and pretty horrible and expensive to deal with.

 

[Go Zizzz]

Hi Graham, my Cali has same problem, it’s a 2021 . Vw in Glasgow are going to replace , how did u get on with yours, Glasgow say it takes two days, but for me that’s an overnight stay as 100 miles away. Thanks,Gary.

Mine is booked in to Poole later in September and am assured (after chasing) that the new seal will be available and a single day should be enough. Will report back when done.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Mine is booked in to Poole later in September and am assured (after chasing) that the new seal will be available and a single day should be enough. Will report back when done.

I asked my VW dealer if there was any VW guidance in fitting a replacement seal but got no meaningful answer. I would be interested if you can do better with Poole.

Whilst in warranty it seems wise to deal with this via a VW dealer, thereafter owners are likely to be that bit more conscientious doing it themselves.

I think the most obvious tips would be a thorough check of the new seal before fitting for any sign of rubber damage over the steel reinforcement, and suggesting they warm the seal before fitting (particularly to the front).

I doubt VW Poole will let you attend the fitting - my VW dealer would not - but my VW approved body shop Rackhams Ipswich were very accommodating and checked every step with me in attendance. If Poole let you attend then it would be good to hear their fitting procedure.

I am almost certain my VW dealer ‘thumped’ with their hands or rubber hammered my seal. I was allowed to check it before and it was perfect, then I was posted to a reception area during fitting. Afterwards I drove home and did a forensic to find the broken rubber cover and damaged paintwork along the front of the aluminium. As you can imagine I went back immediately and had lots of apology but it was so avoidable if they had been as Rackhams subsequently were.

Rackhams added tape to the front edge, I wonder if Poole will. I quite like standard black electrical tape as a protection - seems quite a match given that ‘galvanic corrosion’ over the long term is the principal risk which is an electrical reaction.

 

[Go Zizzz]

My Van went to Breeze in Poole as booked and true to their word, the seal was replaced (it was already ordered and in stock) within the day. All looks fine from what I can see.

 

[Perfectos]

VW dealer ‘thumped’ with their hands or rubber hammered my seal.

I have seen the dealer fit a new one to mine this is exactly what causes the issue , funnily enough the one I observed being fitted, by thumping the front, lasted no time before the rust started !

 

[lohr500]

I have seen the dealer fit a new one to mine this is exactly what causes the issue , funnily enough the one I observed being fitted, by thumping the front, lasted no time before the rust started !

Forgive my ignorance, but how else would they fit a new seal? Would applying lots of soapy water or lubricant be a better bet?

 

[Perfectos]

The seal simply pushes on to the roof panel , (easily) whacking it with a hand simply damages the extremely thin rubber covering to the steel reinforcement (in the recess) that damage let’s the water & air in & the oxidisation (rust) process is able to start amazingly quickly

 

[Perfectos]

Forgive my ignorance, but how else would they fit a new seal? Would applying lots of soapy water or lubricant be a better bet?

The seal is in fact two pieces of rubber profile (different profile ) for side and front section (IMO the seal joint is a really poor design and bad,y executed , I’m not aware of any other waethef seal constructed in this manner and requiring a 90 degree joint to the seal)

One inherent weakness is the front on the seal needs to be shaped to the profile of the roof. That shaping process (by hand ) can damage the thin layer of rubber .
The rubber seal is supplied in one piece wound up in a small bag , how it’s handles and how the rubber is bonded to the steel is critical, the fitting adds a further potential for damage to the long length !

Damage can be exacerbate by the fitting process - interference fit to the roof Edge !
IMO the rubber coating to the steel reinforcing seems inconsistent and not fit for the purpose it was designed (a weather seal Over steel)
the fact that VW chose to use steel in a very cheap seal in close proximity to the aluminium roof, that requires two different profiles to be attached together to form a roof seal, is a mistake.
it is widely known and accepted that dissimilar metals ferrous & non ferrous metals should be avoided in certain situations in automotive situations (DYOR) it has potentially caused an issue for every California roof even brand new.
VW have chosen to not acknowledge the design flaw, instead , purely change the fault whilst in warranty and If observed by owners !

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Forgive my ignorance, but how else would they fit a new seal? Would applying lots of soapy water or lubricant be a better bet?

As I and @Perfectos have posted, a higher level of care generally, gently bending of a warm seal etc. rather than the common technician's rubber hammer and/or palm thumping.

There is plenty of useful info if you work through this post (OK time consuming, but going back several times to your dealer is a great deal worse).

There are also postings about Lanoguard and Waxoyl, though they in turn intruduce more 'slip' than is desirable at the initial stage - though once the seal has taken its shape they are probably a good 'belt and braces'.

Given that mine seal had well developed rust within 6 months of manufacture this is a serious matter worth careful attention.

 

[Perfectos]

Given that mine seal had well developed rust within 6 months of manufacture

iMO The seal was faulty from day 1, you were informed enough to check it within 6 months , where the rust was observed. Not through use but through the inherent issue with the seal design and manufacture

 

[Viktorgeorge]

iMO The seal was faulty from day 1, you were informed enough to check it within 6 months , where the rust was observed. Not through use but through the inherent issue with the seal design and manufacture

Agree 100%. And, credit to you, I would never have checked at 6 months if I had seen your (and others’) post.

I went to some length to record my experience - as did you before me - because this is such an unexpected problem.