Hybrid pay per mile

[pjm-84]

It an interesting debate because I do not

Whataboutery?

No....because I was responding about public services that you mentioned in your post (.....How do you think things are paid for to make the country run).

So if you question the money required to be paid to make the country run and I respond on that point about the waste in public services based on my first hand experience, that's not whataboutery.....that's a debate. We dont have to agree, because its a conversation and opinions and experiences come in to play..........

 

[Dave Wickham]

Just seen an interesting video talking about the pay per mile tariff which is coming in April 2028.

Plug in hybrids will have to pay 1.5p per mile, but it doesn't matter if that mile is driven on electric or petrol, or even if the mile is driven in the UK or elsewhere, e.g. abroad, as it will be purely based on the mileage the vehicle has driven.

Thoughts?

People are fitting mileage blockers already. I know 2 who have PHEV doing it

 

[Dave Wickham]

It's not about the pennies - it's called a principle!

The whole idea was that BEV, PHEVs and Hybrids omit fewer pollutants, thus reducing global warming and saving the polar bears. Therefore governments should be encouraging this. I already pay a £195 VED tax on a fully EV with zero emissions despite promises of no VED if no emissions.

The ppm is a step too far, and evidently unfair, not to mention un-enforceable

It is the principle but also common sense. Some PHEV's with smaller batteries will only do around 20-30 miles on a full charge and then they run on petrol or diesel. Since a PHEV and a ICE (thats internal combustion engine not Immigration and customs enforcement) will pay the same VED whats the incentive to buy a PHEV where you will be paying more tax than if you drove a more polluting ICE car. If you drive 10000 miles in your PHEV you will pay £150 more than a non-PHEV and you are paying tax at the pump. I wonder if Reeves or her advisers thought of that. DUMB.

 

[WelshGas]

I have a PHEV Hybrid Multivan. True, in full EV drive I get upto a 30 mile range which is more than enough for local travel. When travelling long distance in Hybrid Mode, a clever combination of both, then I’m getting between 50- 60 mpg, probably 30% more than a pure IC equivalent.
I’m not going to bother doing the calculations but over 10,000 miles/ year I’m sure I’ll be paying less fuel duty compared to an IC only equivalent.
Fitting a Milage Blocker, which seem to cost between £350/£550 inc fitting, doesn’t make financial sense, besides being illegal on public highways, you would not be able to leave it on all the time without raising suspicions at the annual milage check. So even using it to block 50% of milage on a 10,000 mile a year vehicle you save a massive £75 so it would take anything between 4-7 years to cover the cost with the threat of a criminal record and fine hanging over you all that time.

 

[Dave Wickham]

I have a PHEV Hybrid Multivan. True, in full EV drive I get upto a 30 mile range which is more than enough for local travel. When travelling long distance in Hybrid Mode, a clever combination of both, then I’m getting between 50- 60 mpg, probably 30% more than a pure IC equivalent.
I’m not going to bother doing the calculations but over 10,000 miles/ year I’m sure I’ll be paying less fuel duty compared to an IC only equivalent.
Fitting a Milage Blocker, which seem to cost between £350/£550 inc fitting, doesn’t make financial sense, besides being illegal on public highways, you would not be able to leave it on all the time without raising suspicions at the annual milage check. So even using it to block 50% of milage on a 10,000 mile a year vehicle you save a massive £75 so it would take anything between 4-7 years to cover the cost with the threat of a criminal record and fine hanging over you all that time.

That may be your experience but it isn't applicable in many cases. A neighbour traded in a BMW 2.0 litre diesel estate for a BWW330e (PHEV) estate and he told me he got a better MPG with his diesel on long runs! WRT the mileage blocker they are not illegal to fit, anyway the chances getting caught are low I expect. When governments hit people with clearly unfair and badly thought through taxes (like unused pensions becoming IHT taxable) then people will exploit tax evasion methods and I don't blame them at all.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

I have a PHEV Hybrid Multivan. True, in full EV drive I get upto a 30 mile range which is more than enough for local travel. When travelling long distance in Hybrid Mode, a clever combination of both, then I’m getting between 50- 60 mpg, probably 30% more than a pure IC equivalent.

That may be your experience but it isn't applicable in many cases. A neighbour traded in a BMW 2.0 litre diesel estate for a BWW330e (PHEV) estate and he told me he got a better MPG with his diesel on long runs!

It all depends on your usage. If you take a PHEV on the motorway as I have, steadily cruising, you will get FEWER mpg than the equivalent petrol or diesel engine, as you are towing a very heavy battery pack as well as the engine, yet have no energy regen.

In short, Diesel for motorway and long distances, PHEV for short hops and city driving and EV if you have a home charger (as I now do).

 

[JuanVecino2023]

That may be your experience but it isn't applicable in many cases. A neighbour traded in a BMW 2.0 litre diesel estate for a BWW330e (PHEV) estate and he told me he got a better MPG with his diesel on long runs! WRT the mileage blocker they are not illegal to fit, anyway the chances getting caught are low I expect. When governments hit people with clearly unfair and badly thought through taxes (like unused pensions becoming IHT taxable) then people will exploit tax evasion methods and I don't blame them at all.

I had a 330e and can corroborate this fact.

Thr hybrid tech, switching between EV and ICE (only optimised if you use thr native BMW iDrive nav), works well.

Until you run out of battery. Which on a long run you will.

Then you are hauling about both a redundant battery and electric motor, at which point in my real world experience the ICE only economy is ca 23MPG.

As the 330e has a limited power draw in kW, even on the fastest charger it takes hours to top up on the road (can’t comment on other PHEV).

I found it worked well on short return commutes, school run etc on EV only trains or trips up to 80-100 miles before a full charge.

On family trips it was an expensive, inefficient wagon and diesel would have been more efficient.

 

[WelshGas]

It all depends on your usage. If you take a PHEV on the motorway as I have, steadily cruising, you will get FEWER mpg than the equivalent petrol or diesel engine, as you are towing a very heavy battery pack as well as the engine, yet have no energy regen.

In short, Diesel for motorway and long distances, PHEV for short hops and city driving and EV if you have a home charger (as I now do).

Well the Multivan Hybrid must be different. Last big Continental trip was 1000 miles to Jutland from South Wales. Battery started off with 29 miles and arrived in Jutland with 14 miles. NO charging enrolee just the clever electronics utilising EV when suitable, regenerative braking and charging from engine when cruising. MPG 53.6 mpg.
I don't think the petrol or diesel versions would have the same economy.
The only time I've seen ) miles on the battery was when using EV drive just before it automatically switched to Hybrid and even then with ) miles it was still using EV for low speed manouvers. In fact according bro technical info for the VW Hybrid drive you will never get to ) charge as the last 20% is utilised and recharged for low speed manouvers and vehicle functions. If it drops too low the engine provides active charging.
It would seem not all Hybrids are equal.

 

[WelshGas]

I had a 330e and can corroborate this fact.

Thr hybrid tech, switching between EV and ICE (only optimised if you use thr native BMW iDrive nav), works well.

Until you run out of battery. Which on a long run you will.

Then you are hauling about both a redundant battery and electric motor, at which point in my real world experience the ICE only economy is ca 23MPG.

As the 330e has a limited power draw in kW, even on the fastest charger it takes hours to top up on the road (can’t comment on other PHEV).

I found it worked well on short return commutes, school run etc on EV only trains or trips up to 80-100 miles before a full charge.

On family trips it was an expensive, inefficient wagon and diesel would have been more efficient.

Never ran out of battery even on a 2000 mile return trip to Jutland. In fact had 7 miles pure EV capacity on return to home. NO charging enroute.

 

[pjm-84]

I had a 330e and can corroborate this fact.

Thr hybrid tech, switching between EV and ICE (only optimised if you use thr native BMW iDrive nav), works well.

Until you run out of battery. Which on a long run you will.

Then you are hauling about both a redundant battery and electric motor, at which point in my real world experience the ICE only economy is ca 23MPG.

As the 330e has a limited power draw in kW, even on the fastest charger it takes hours to top up on the road (can’t comment on other PHEV).

I found it worked well on short return commutes, school run etc on EV only trains or trips up to 80-100 miles before a full charge.

On family trips it was an expensive, inefficient wagon and diesel would have been more efficient.

Crumbs you must be blatting that around.....BMW X545e still achieves 35 -37mpg on a run and circa 28mpg urban..... amazingly good considering its 2.5tonnes, 4x4........as for particles....that's b*****s.....

Facts - Currently on 30k miles, tyres are at 4mm, and I rarely have to wash the wheels as brake dust is oddly non existant.....I would say 40 to 50k on a set of tyres.....on my lightweight motorbike I would have gone through 20 to 25 sets of tyres

 

[pjm-84]

As for the Mobility scheme - half the cars in Northern Ireland....amazing

As of early 2026, the Motability Scheme has established itself as a major driver of the UK automotive industry, accounting for
nearly one in five (roughly 20%) of all new car registrations in the country.


Key Statistics (2025–2026)

• Market Share: The scheme currently represents approximately 19% to 20% of all new car sales in the UK.
• Customer Base: There are approximately 890,000 active customers on the scheme as of January 2026.
• Annual Volume: Motability Operations leases roughly 300,000 vehicles per year, making it the largest fleet operator in Europe.
• Regional Variations: In certain regions, the share is significantly higher; for instance, nearly half of all new cars registered in Northern Ireland are through the Motability Scheme.

 

[Hawthorn37]

Something array with the maths. 890,000 Mobility scheme customers, 34.36 million cars registered in the UK (2025 data). So that’s 2.5% of cars on the road, or 1 in 40 in the UK as a whole. It’s admittedly still a big number.

 

[pjm-84]

In that registered year .....not overall. We are talking about the new car market. The demand for Mobility has grown significantly over the last few years and in some sense its propping up the car market within this current climate..... in NI, it most certainly is.....

Its an AI response so it might be worth checking the accurancy......I've come across the 20% figure previously, but its not something that's going to be shouted about.....

 

[DESMODOM]

It is the principle but also common sense. Some PHEV's with smaller batteries will only do around 20-30 miles on a full charge and then they run on petrol or diesel. Since a PHEV and a ICE (thats internal combustion engine not Immigration and customs enforcement) will pay the same VED whats the incentive to buy a PHEV where you will be paying more tax than if you drove a more polluting ICE car. If you drive 10000 miles in your PHEV you will pay £150 more than a non-PHEV and you are paying tax at the pump. I wonder if Reeves or her advisers thought of that. DUMB.

Yes, you are correct, A T7 PHEV does 45miles on electric at best. Rachel from accounts has got it wrong, because

 

[DESMODOM]

A California T7 PHEV does 45miles on electric at best 30miles in the real world and of course depends if you drive on petrol or electric. To pay a blanket 1.5 p for every mile driven whether on electric or petrol is surely not right as you are being charged on fuel that you have already paid duty on. For example when you are doing many miles on petrol abroad as you can’t find a charger you will be paying an additional 1.5 pence on duty already paid in that country. Surely that is wrong? Rachel from accounts has got it wrong, because this tax is disproportionate for PHEVs. I would go as far to say that it’s illegal! The only fair way, is to drop duty altogether on fuel and charge every vehicle pay per mile.

 

[Dave Wickham]

A California T7 PHEV does 45miles on electric at best 30miles in the real world and of course depends if you drive on petrol or electric. To pay a blanket 1.5 p for every mile driven whether on electric or petrol is surely not right as you are being charged on fuel that you have already paid duty on. For example when you are doing many miles on petrol abroad as you can’t find a charger you will be paying an additional 1.5 pence on duty already paid in that country. Surely that is wrong? Rachel from accounts has got it wrong, because this tax is disproportionate for PHEVs. I would go as far to say that it’s illegal! The only fair way, is to drop duty altogether on fuel and charge every vehicle pay per mile.

Correct

 

[Velma's Dad]

...To pay a blanket 1.5 p for every mile driven whether on electric or petrol is surely not right as you are being charged on fuel that you have already paid duty on. For example when you are doing many miles on petrol abroad as you can’t find a charger you will be paying an additional 1.5 pence on duty already paid in that country. Surely that is wrong? Rachel from accounts has got it wrong, because this tax is disproportionate for PHEVs. I would go as far to say that it’s illegal! The only fair way, is to drop duty altogether on fuel and charge every vehicle pay per mile.

The government, via parliament which is sovereign, can tax whatever it likes, however it likes. There are shedloads of other cases of "taxes on taxes" - including current VED which is charged on a vehicle you've already paid new car tax to buy, plus VAT on the car tax... whatever.

The fiscal environment for the foreeable in the UK - growing demands on health/welfare for an ageing population, plus increased defence budgets, with UKG's credit card maxxed out so no further big borrowing - means the tax base has to be grown.

No-one likes paying tax, and we have a tendency to think that the fairest tax is one that other people pay. Tax the rich? Well actually the UK already has a very progressive tax system, comparatively?

That said I do think successive governments have made the whole tax system massively over-complicated, by giving little bribes to various groups, usually dressed up as carefully targeted stimulus packages. So for that reason I happen to agree with DESMODOM in principle that there should be a flat pay-per-mile for all vehicles, fossil or electric. BUT that would need to be set at far more than 1.5p per mile to recover what's currently collected through petrol/diesel fuel taxes and VAT - somewhere between 5 and 10p per mile.

As that French finance minister famously said: "The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing."

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Well the Multivan Hybrid must be different. Last big Continental trip was 1000 miles to Jutland from South Wales. Battery started off with 29 miles and arrived in Jutland with 14 miles. NO charging enrolee just the clever electronics utilising EV when suitable, regenerative braking and charging from engine when cruising. MPG 53.6 mpg.

It would seem not all Hybrids are equal.

That is seriously impressive and definitely better economy than the equivalent dirty diesel T7.

I suspect that there is some clever charging of your PHEV battery from the engine (over and above the braking regen) which then allows the engine to shut down and run on EV occasionally, unlike my old Mercedes C class PHEV.

 

[WelshGas]

That is seriously impressive and definitely better economy than the equivalent dirty diesel T7.

I suspect that there is some clever charging of your PHEV battery from the engine (over and above the braking regen) which then allows the engine to shut down and run on EV occasionally, unlike my old Mercedes C class PHEV.

Correct. When cruising on the Motorway or equivilent , if you select the correct screen , then you can see the charging take place. That is why the new 4 motion Hybrid California ALWAYS has the 4 Motion capability, which is provided by the EV motor. The Hybrid battery never gets to Zero capacity. The EV is always used in place of 1st and Reverse or 4 motion drive even if the Dashboard says Zero miles EV range.

 

[Hawthorn37]

In that registered year .....not overall. We are talking about the new car market. The demand for Mobility has grown significantly over the last few years and in some sense its propping up the car market within this current climate..... in NI, it most certainly is.....

Its an AI response so it might be worth checking the accurancy......I've come across the 20% figure previously, but its not something that's going to be shouted about.....

This was covered on a Radio 4 programme late last year, More Or Less, a programme about stats in the public arena. They concluded it’s about 1 in 40 cars on the road. As I said, it’s still a surprisingly big number.

 

[andyinluton]

So for that reason I happen to agree with DESMODOM in principle that there should be a flat pay-per-mile for all vehicles, fossil or electric. BUT that would need to be set at far more than 1.5p per mile to recover what's currently collected through petrol/diesel fuel taxes and VAT - somewhere between 5 and 10p per mile.

Duty on gallon of diesel is £2.40 and the government collects £0.48 in vat added to the duty.
total £2.88 per gallon means someone doing 30mpg is currently paying 9.6p to the government in duty per mile. Thats the income the government need to replace, to me it would seem reasonable to charge electric cars far more than 1.5p per mile.

If we all went electric & only paid 1.5p there would be another huge hole in the government finances that would need filling by taxing someone somewhere.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Duty on gallon of diesel is £2.40 and the government collects £0.48 in vat added to the duty.
total £2.88 per gallon means someone doing 30mpg is currently paying 9.6p to the government in duty per mile. Thats the income the government need to replace, to me it would seem reasonable to charge electric cars far more than 1.5p per mile.

If we all went electric & only paid 1.5p there would be another huge hole in the government finances that would need filling by taxing someone somewhere.

Or reducing the welfare state that seems to be growing by the second in Blighty.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Or reducing the welfare state that seems to be growing by the second in Blighty.

Well okay, but more than half the total welfare budget is state pensions and pension credits, and they have grown faster than working-age benefits. But I can't see any of the main parties being brave enough to scrap the Triple Lock any time soon, can you?

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Well okay, but more than half the total welfare budget is state pensions and pension credits, and they have grown faster than working-age benefits. But I can't see any of the main parties being brave enough to scrap the Triple Lock any time soon, can you?

I have no issue with those who were born here and paid 30+ years of tax and NI to fund said pensions.

It is elsewhere that my ire is directed, ie, the billions going to people who do not fit in the the above cohort and have contributed zilch. Not wishing to derail this thread I'll leave it there, but suffice to say that addressing the many welfare abuses would reduce the tax burden somewhat at least, reducing the need for such swinging and repeated taxes on the motorist.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Crumbs you must be blatting that around.....BMW X545e still achieves 35 -37mpg on a run and circa 28mpg urban..... amazingly good considering its 2.5tonnes, 4x4........as for particles....that's b*****s.....

Facts - Currently on 30k miles, tyres are at 4mm, and I rarely have to wash the wheels as brake dust is oddly non existant.....I would say 40 to 50k on a set of tyres.....on my lightweight motorbike I would have gone through 20 to 25 sets of tyres

Is that 35-37MPG on ICE only?