2010 SE 180 TDI ?

[alexwhill]

I have a 180 and it’s fine. 167000 miles and as strong as an ox

 

[derek_j_buchanan]

Interesting you've quoted my post specifically, when others here have said basically the same thing.

FORUM
noun
noun: forum; plural noun: forums; plural noun: fora

1. 1.
   a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
   

Forums are where people can air their opinions on a particular issue, if you don't like this, then I would suggest forums aren't for you.

As I own said van, and read around the issue extensively before spending tens of thousands of pounds on it, my opinion and experience is as valid as anyone elses, including yours.

Fact of the matter is this is a well known and *fairly* widespread issue (although exactly how widespread who knows) so it pays to be informed. Even my local garage owner (VW Trained Mechanic), who has a 180 Kombi, had his EGR blanked off as a precuation, so its not just ill-informed scaremongering.

That said, I have no regrets buying my van, if you get the van for the right price, and have a contingency pot should the worst happen, its fine....or just buy a 150hp van.

I quoted you as your post uses the term “roll of the dice”. It attracts attention. It is not a roll of the dice. Do your homework and in particular check the service history. A Cali on long life service intervals is less likely to have these issues picked up so in my experience of having had 2 and based on the advice of my garage, be slightly more cautious of those on long service intervals: look for one that’s had a traditional service history. Know one knows the facts around this it’s all hear say - how many 180s were produced, how many have had the issue at what mileage and with what service history. Without such facts it remains hear say.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I quoted you as your post uses the term “roll of the dice”. It attracts attention. It is not a roll of the dice. Do your homework and in particular check the service history. A Cali on long life service intervals is less likely to have these issues picked up so in my experience of having had 2 and based on the advice of my garage, be slightly more cautious of those on long service intervals: look for one that’s had a traditional service history. Know one knows the facts around this it’s all hear say - how many 180s were produced, how many have had the issue at what mileage and with what service history. Without such facts it remains hear say.

The issue is that it's difficult to check the full history on older vans. A 2 yearly service stamp / invoice does not tell you much. What's a ‘traditional service history’? - a correct service history is one that has been serviced in accordance with manufacturers guidelines. Once the issue is picked up its too late - whether it be after 12 months, 24 months etc as the engine will already have foreign metal particles in the engine causing damage.

Some private sellers might choose to conceal the issue. With the attitude “if the manufacturer won't sort the issue why should i be left out of pocket?” and just tell the buyer it has fullVWSH.

Problem vans will often end up as a part-ex at a trader, so likely that purchasing garage will not be aware of the issue and their aim is to sell the van for a profit as quickly as possible to release forecourt space. But the buyer will get a warranty which will give them 3 months peace of mind (if the part is not excluded within the small print).

The other option is to choose a engine spec that might be less prone to issues, to avoid the risk.

Buyer beware as always!

 

[sbmcd]

My 2014 180 is at 136K mikes, no oil usage and runs perfectly.

 

[pjm-84]

The issue is that it's difficult to check the full history on older vans. A 2 yearly service stamp / invoice does not tell you much. What's a ‘traditional service history’? - a correct service history is one that has been serviced in accordance with manufacturers guidelines. Once the issue is picked up its too late - whether it be after 12 months, 24 months etc as the engine will already have foreign metal particles in the engine causing damage.

Some private sellers might choose to conceal the issue. With the attitude “if the manufacturer won't sort the issue why should i be left out of pocket?” and just tell the buyer it has fullVWSH.

Problem vans will often end up as a part-ex at a trader, so likely that purchasing garage will not be aware of the issue and their aim is to sell the van for a profit as quickly as possible to release forecourt space. But the buyer will get a warranty which will give them 3 months peace of mind (if the part is not excluded within the small print).

The other option is to choose a engine spec that might be less prone to issues, to avoid the risk.

Buyer beware as always!

Not sure VW are interested. Service says X, we do X..

Mine is on annual service so in 9years its had a similar number of oil changes.....manufacturer's guidance is just that....look at the cambelt saga.

 

[BigPritch]

Well guys, after speaking with the Dealer and asked them if they could use the garage they use for servicing, pre-delivery etc, if they could organise them to do a Millers Oil Test, that I was happy to pay for, it went weird.
'If I want a garage to do this, then I must organise it, and by the way, the van isn't taxed, so you can't drive it off, youve got 3 years warranty that covers engine, clutch etc, whats your issue?'.
When I asked whether this would cover a replacement engine, turbo etc.....never answered.
Confirmed that there had been no work done on the EGR, on any of the alleged FSH, which I said raised a few red flags.
Was told 'lots of vehicles have issues with them, your worrying about nothing', well excuse me if I beg to differ.
So without the ability to actually get any of the 'issues' checked before parting with cash, we have pulled out of buying.
Lost our deposit (which hurts), but think we may have dodged a rather more expensive bullet...

Back to the drawing board......

 

[2into1]

Offering to pay for the test was reasonable. The same can't be said for the seller's reaction. Sorry you lost your deposit.

 

[happyjames013]

Well guys, after speaking with the Dealer and asked them if they could use the garage they use for servicing, pre-delivery etc, if they could organise them to do a Millers Oil Test, that I was happy to pay for, it went weird.
'If I want a garage to do this, then I must organise it, and by the way, the van isn't taxed, so you can't drive it off, youve got 3 years warranty that covers engine, clutch etc, whats your issue?'.
When I asked whether this would cover a replacement engine, turbo etc.....never answered.
Confirmed that there had been no work done on the EGR, on any of the alleged FSH, which I said raised a few red flags.
Was told 'lots of vehicles have issues with them, your worrying about nothing', well excuse me if I beg to differ.
So without the ability to actually get any of the 'issues' checked before parting with cash, we have pulled out of buying.
Lost our deposit (which hurts), but think we may have dodged a rather more expensive bullet...

Back to the drawing board......

I absolutely think you’ve made the right decision.
The 180 engine is a gamble. I have two friends that had it, both needed new engines between 60 and 80 k. 2011 and 2014. Both had impeccable service histories and were in excellent condition. Worst of all, two weeks after having the new engine, it got written off.
I had a caddy with the BLS engine with the potential of oil starvation and throwing a con rod through the block and it ruined owning it. I was never confident.
Now I’ve got a 2012 T5.1 140, had it 5 years, 65k and it’s needed a new egr and clutch/dmf (the slave cylinder let go and it’s in the bell housing, freak occurrence, taking the clutch out and as it was apart… do the flywheel). Even though it’s not been perfect, it’s been reliable and it’s not been catastrophic, so I don’t mind and it should be good for a long long while.
Good luck with the search, the 180 is nice to drive, but the 140 is plenty and if you really want more ooomph very remapable.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Frustrating to lose your deposit, but better than having bigger bills further down the line. Buying any vehicle can be a minefield unfortunately and it gets worse with used vehicles; trying to understand the real scale of risk with potential latent defects can be torturous. You're far better armed with information now for your next vehicle find and also have a vehicle to benchmark other things against (how it drove, suspension, feel of steering, doors, controls etc.) which will help you spot other duff elements which might not be obvious if you'd only driven one of them.

 

[Meoncoast]

I would check out where you stand from a legal point of view re the deposit. It is not that you have changed your mind - you have real concerns re a known fault with the 180-engine.

 

[BigPritch]

I would check out where you stand from a legal point of view re the deposit. It is not that you have changed your mind - you have real concerns re a known fault with the 180-engine.

I fully agree, but fact that the Dealer will not recognise that there are any issues, and has already said, he's sold tons of these vehicles with no issues, and told me "I'm worrying over nothing'.
Have spoken with CAB, and they basically say its a Contract I entered into by paying the deposit, and if I chose to legally challenge, it would probably cost me more in legal fees, and no guarantee be found in my favour.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I
Now I’ve got a 2012 T5.1 140, had it 5 years, 65k and it’s needed a new egr and clutch/dmf (the slave cylinder let go and it’s in the bell housing, freak occurrence, taking the clutch out and as it was apart… do the flywheel).

Good luck with the search, the 180 is nice to drive, but the 140 is plenty and if you really want more ooomph very remapable.

We had the same happen to our 2012 Beach (remapped to 170) last year@ 35kmiles. £1100 to fix as a result of the slave cylinder failing - new slave, master, clutch, dmf. Initially wondered if the remap might have something to do with the failure but the mechanic advised that it just happens to handful of T5.1’s so just bad luck - and would be far cheaper if the slave was located in a more accessible spot.

Annoying as don't think have ever needed to replace a clutch on previous cars / vans until about 150k miles.

Now have a 2015 (140) club joker which had been remapped to 175 since new, excellent drive.

 

[ArunAlec]

Might be worth sharing the details of the dealer and Cali, it might save someone from getting caught!

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Share the number plate as the past owner might be on the forum, so might have more info regarding history.

 

[happyjames013]

We had the same happen to our 2012 Beach (remapped to 170) last year@ 35kmiles. £1100 to fix as a result of the slave cylinder failing - new slave, master, clutch, dmf. Initially wondered if the remap might have something to do with the failure but the mechanic advised that it just happens to handful of T5.1’s so just bad luck - and would be far cheaper if the slave was located in a more accessible spot.

Annoying as don't think have ever needed to replace a clutch on previous cars / vans until about 150k miles.

Now have a 2015 (140) club joker which had been remapped to 175 since new, excellent drive.

Particularly gnarling as I’m mechanically sympathetic, so am particularly gentle on clutches. But it is just bad luck.
Just a part failing and contaminating the plate. Nothing connected to the remap.
How do you find the remap? I’ve ummed and ahhed about it for a while.
Any real benefit?
MPG?

My caddy clutch just let go on about 65k with no warning on this occasion the dmf was still in very good order so the mechanic said no point replacing.
Like you, I’ve never lost a clutch before. The only ones I’ve replaced was when rebuilding a 68 spitfire engine and a Bay Window engine as a matter of course.
I don’t think VW reliability is what it was, and that’s reflected in the surveys.
Having said that, we’ve had 3 golfs, a beetle a couple of polos and an Eos without too much drama.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Azteccamper]

We had the same happen to our 2012 Beach (remapped to 170) last year@ 35kmiles. £1100 to fix as a result of the slave cylinder failing - new slave, master, clutch, dmf. Initially wondered if the remap might have something to do with the failure but the mechanic advised that it just happens to handful of T5.1’s so just bad luck - and would be far cheaper if the slave was located in a more accessible spot.

Annoying as don't think have ever needed to replace a clutch on previous cars / vans until about 150k miles.

Now have a 2015 (140) club joker which had been remapped to 175 since new, excellent drive.

Similar with my 2012 SE. It appears that year in particular had problems with slave cylinder - and as you say it all gets done whilst you’re at it. Bit annoying though.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

How do you find the remap? I’ve ummed and ahhed about it for a while.
Any real benefit?
MPG?

It's great, gives a bit more mid range power which is great on country lanes. Less gear changes so mpg improves, unless you drive like a nutter. Also has uprated ARB’s on the Beach. Transformed the ride when combined with the remap.

 

[Meoncoast]

Dealer will not recognise that there are any issues, and has already said, he's sold tons of these vehicles with no issues, and told me "I'm worrying over nothing'.

That is his view - evidence says otherwise. If came back and said there have been some issues with some of these engines and here are the oil tests and compression test for our van and as you see all is fine it may be a different story.

 

[BigPritch]

Might be worth sharing the details of the dealer and Cali, it might save someone from getting caught!

Dealer is - Red Lion Caravan Sales, in Southport.

REG NO is :- VX60USY

NOTHING has been done to the EGR, they wont let me test the oil.

Please be warned, and they dont give a *&%#.....

 

[Meoncoast]

Red Lion Caravan Sales, in Southport.

They do not even know it is a 4 berth! gives me confidence- not

 

[clarinetbcn]

I quoted you as your post uses the term “roll of the dice”. It attracts attention. It is not a roll of the dice. Do your homework and in particular check the service history. A Cali on long life service intervals is less likely to have these issues picked up so in my experience of having had 2 and based on the advice of my garage, be slightly more cautious of those on long service intervals: look for one that’s had a traditional service history. Know one knows the facts around this it’s all hear say - how many 180s were produced, how many have had the issue at what mileage and with what service history. Without such facts it remains hear say.

Just a reminder that in this forum there is so much photographic evidence of corroded 180 aluminum EGR coolers and documented failed oil tests with high aluminum content on 180s with excessive oil consumption that it’s anything but hearsay. As I’ve quoted @WelshGas as saying, not all 180s fail, but no one can tell which ones will. In other words, “a roll of the dice.”

Edit: as the Forum search function has not worked in a while, I’m including a link to photos on the T6 forum:

Post in thread '2016 180 Bi turbo CFCA engine failure is the EGR valve corrosion the cause of the scored and worn out bores'
https://www.t6forum.com/threads/201...e-scored-and-worn-out-bores.36003/post-522634

Post in thread '2016 180 Bi turbo CFCA engine failure is the EGR valve corrosion the cause of the scored and worn out bores'
https://www.t6forum.com/threads/201...e-scored-and-worn-out-bores.36003/post-522770

And a quote from the makers of the Millers oil test about the frequency of catastrophic engine failure in the 180:

Post in thread '2016 180 Bi turbo CFCA engine failure is the EGR valve corrosion the cause of the scored and worn out bores'
https://www.t6forum.com/threads/201...e-scored-and-worn-out-bores.36003/post-592882
"As you are probably aware, with the VW 2.0 L BiTDI 180 hp CFCA engine as used in your Caravelle, the issue we see regularly is the breakdown of the cooler on the EGR, this gives Aluminium salt particles which are ingested by the engine causing bore damage leading to poor compression and excessive oil consumption; we see this as Aluminium in the oil. Your oil sample is actually not too bad in this respect but does have a fail level of Aluminium present.“

 

[ArunAlec]

They do not even know it is a 4 berth! gives me confidence- not

Also the ad has no mention of a pop top, says it has ‘hab air con” and a “rock and roll bed conversion “…… sounds like they’ve no experience or knowledge of the California.

 

[willwander]

If that dealer knew anything about them, he wouldn’t have bought it in the first place.
Most dealers are well aware of the early 180 risk and won’t touch them.