2021 150HP vs 2017 150HP performance

[Alain]

Hi all,

I will replace my 2017 150HP DSG Ocean with a new one soon. Residuals are really high because of the big delay in production. I found a new Ocean at my dealer which was meant for rental, but that I could buy with a nice discount. It's a 150HP 4motion DSG, 2021 model and will be delivered in a few weeks.

In the meantime I've ridden a 2021 150HP 4motion Coast and I'm a bit underwhelmed with the engine performance and DSG shifting speed. Power seems lower than on my 2017 model and the DSG seems to shift slower than before. It's the new model, without the S mode.

On my 2017 Cali, the 150HP always seemed more than enough. I don't have the same impression with the new one, which does worry me a bit.

This was a new car with only 600Km on the counter, so things might improve with mileage. But is the new model less responsive because of emission regulations and the Dieselgate updates? Or is it due to the added weight of the 4motion? Or is it just my impression

Thx for your comments,

alain

 

[orbital]

I was expecting the opposite to be the case as the ‘real world driving’ emissions tests are now more realistic so VW would have tweaked the power bands to avoid the flat spots needed to game the tests, if you see what I mean. my understanding is that the 4motion drive train wastes a lot of power through the extra friction etc. I’d be interested to find out the truth. You could always get it remapped up to about 180bhp without any risks.

 

[Marc Oldman]

I’ve got a 204HP 4motion but I also had a test drive in a 2wd 150HP before buying - performance was very similar and the dealer said it was due to the extra weight.

 

[Alain]

I was expecting the opposite to be the case as the ‘real world driving’ emissions tests are now more realistic so VW would have tweaked the power bands to avoid the flat spots needed to game the tests, if you see what I mean. my understanding is that the 4motion drive train wastes a lot of power through the extra friction etc. I’d be interested to find out the truth. You could always get it remapped up to about 180bhp without any risks.

Yeah, remapping might be the way to go. It also adds 70Nm to the torque and comes out relatively cheap at 590 euros .

In hindsight I should've test driven the 4WD version first, but I never realised it would alter the driving experience that much. Since the front wheels on the 2WD version spin easily when flooring the accelerator, I assumed the 4WD version would accelerate even better.

 

[Calimili]

The 4Motion is about 100-120kg heavier... An Ocean with not a huge amount of gear loaded is easily 2,8 Tons assuming just the driver. That is 3,6% heavier than 2wd.
4wd definitely accelerates better unless you are on a flat road with good tarmac. But add a small incline and rain and the difference will be very noticeable.

 

[Bellcrew]

The 4Motion is about 100-120kg heavier... An Ocean with not a huge amount of gear loaded is easily 2,8 Tons assuming just the driver. That is 3,6% heavier than 2wd.
4wd definitely accelerates better unless you are on a flat road with good tarmac. But add a small incline and rain and the difference will be very noticeable.

If you are gentle on the initial acceleration and then floor it to get up to traffic speed there is never any noticeable wheel spin, given the power/weight/gearing combination after the initial surge how does 4wd make any difference?
Now some of the old super bike owners (survivors) still boast that they could spin the rear wheel in at least the first 3 gears in the dry, those were the days...............

 

[B J G]

TVS could be the route to a solution. Cheaper than a 204 and without the double emission system.
Remap Engine.
Remap DSG
Remap both engine and DSG to a matched specification.

Volkswagen Transporter / Multivan T6.1 - 2019 -> 2.0 TDI CR 150hp tuning - TVS Engineering

⭐ Volkswagen Transporter / Multivan T6.1 - 2019 -> 2.0 TDI CR 150hp car tuning ⭐ +85HP! ⭐ +145NM! ⭐ The DSG specialist ⭐ TDI tuning ⭐ Chiptuning ⭐ ECU tuning

tvsengineering.com

 

[Calimili]

If you are gentle on the initial acceleration and then floor it to get up to traffic speed there is never any noticeable wheel spin, given the power/weight/gearing combination after the initial surge how does 4wd make any difference?
Now some of the old super bike owners (survivors) still boast that they could spin the rear wheel in at least the first 3 gears in the dry, those were the days...............

You are correct. If you are very gentle you can avoid wheel spin even on ice, if we bring it to an extreme.
But the OP is talking about performance, acceleration, flooring the gas, tuning to 180. He's asking if a 4wd would accelerate faster than 2wd, and I gave my opinion/experience on that.
I may add the 4wd is close to impossible to have a wheel spin even with heavy rain. Wheel spin= less acceleration.

 

[66tim99]

TVS could be the route to a solution. Cheaper than a 204 and without the double emission system.
Remap Engine.
Remap DSG
Remap both engine and DSG to a matched specification.

Volkswagen Transporter / Multivan T6.1 - 2019 -> 2.0 TDI CR 150hp tuning - TVS Engineering

⭐ Volkswagen Transporter / Multivan T6.1 - 2019 -> 2.0 TDI CR 150hp car tuning ⭐ +85HP! ⭐ +145NM! ⭐ The DSG specialist ⭐ TDI tuning ⭐ Chiptuning ⭐ ECU tuning

tvsengineering.com

Had a £360 quite for the DSG remap. Haven’t considered the engine. How much is that in the U.K.?

 

[Bellcrew]

You are correct. If you are very gentle you can avoid wheel spin even on ice, if we bring it to an extreme.
But the OP is talking about performance, acceleration, flooring the gas, tuning to 180. He's asking if a 4wd would accelerate faster than 2wd, and I gave my opinion/experience on that.
I may add the 4wd is close to impossible to have a wheel spin even with heavy rain. Wheel spin= less acceleration.

In a drag race between a 2wd and 4wd, same engine power/tyres and of course a DSG box, how would the enhanced traction over the first (lets be generous) 2 meters of the track would the 4wd gain in speed to compensate for the reduced performance resulting from the extra weight/friction inherent in the system.
VW gives a clue in the published performance figures and fuel consumption of the two versions. Not a lot in it but it is unlikely to be significant in normal usage, but of course your money your choice.

 

[Calimili]

In a drag race between a 2wd and 4wd, same engine power/tyres and of course a DSG box, how would the enhanced traction over the first (lets be generous) 2 meters of the track would the 4wd gain in speed to compensate for the reduced performance resulting from the extra weight/friction inherent in the system.
VW gives a clue in the published performance figures and fuel consumption of the two versions. Not a lot in it but it is unlikely to be significant in normal usage, but of course your money your choice.

This is what I wrote on post #5:
4wd definitely accelerates better unless you are on a flat road with good tarmac. But add a small incline and rain and the difference will be very noticeable.

I think we are saying the same thing?

 

[B J G]

Had a £360 quite for the DSG remap. Haven’t considered the engine. How much is that in the U.K.?

Only a supplier/installer could say as there seems to be various stages of tune to both the engine and DSG available.

saw one that had launch control (for cars?) where you rev to a certain figure and let the brake off for a rapid departure.
not for a normal Cali driver but may suit some.

 

[Alain]

You are correct. If you are very gentle you can avoid wheel spin even on ice, if we bring it to an extreme.
But the OP is talking about performance, acceleration, flooring the gas, tuning to 180. He's asking if a 4wd would accelerate faster than 2wd, and I gave my opinion/experience on that.
I may add the 4wd is close to impossible to have a wheel spin even with heavy rain. Wheel spin= less acceleration.

What I wanted to point out is that the driving experience with the 4motion is really different compared to the 2WD version, with the same engine. I suppose the 198/204 is better suited for the 4motion than the 150.

With the 150 2WD I never had the impression I lacked power, even when fully loaded with 2 kids in the back on a 3 week road trip. When I tested the 4motion yesterday, it was just me and an empty Cali. As I said, the car felt underwhelming and laggy.

Seems like a chip tuning coupled with a DSG tuning is the way to go then.

 

[andyinluton]

At 600km the new one all be very tight , give it a few 1000k or better still 10,000k and it will loosen up nicely.

Theres an extra 110kg just for the 4x4 gubbins, & the Ocean has got a bit heavier as well since 2017 , the extra emissions bits was another 25kg alone. Thats an adult + 2 small kids worth weight, before you put anything in the van. Theres more friction with the additional drive train as well.

I'd put some miles on first then see how it feels before rushing out for a remap.