2023 Ocean leaking roof fabric

[Jabberwocky]

I wonder if there are stocks of the old bellows anywhere? Or if they used them all up before they started installing the new version.

My dealer says that the bellows are on "Global back order". Read into that what you wish!

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Sorry I have not read through this entire thread, but in case it has not been mentioned. VW had refined the earlier single skin canvas design until it was very strong and waterproof, but it was difficult for VW to get the sizing when open fit exactly right, sometimes causing over tension and the canvas pulling off the rail at some point. The new double skin canvas is more flexible to overcome this fit and tension issue, but it seems VW have yet to perfect its watertight properties in 100% of cases.

Makes sense. A friend of mine has the earlier bellows on a MY21 model that keep coming detached at the corners. Seems they just can’t quite get it right for one reason or another.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Makes sense. A friend of mine has the earlier bellows on a MY21 model that keep coming detached at the corners. Seems they just can’t quite get it right for one reason or another.

The Master Tech at my dealer tells me that they now use a "Glue" on the corners to prevent/avoid detachment.

 

[Corradobrit]

Thought you guys might find this informative. The parking lot of the VW California Factory that builds the habitation and installs the pop tops was completely full. There was a nearby overspill carpark that was 80% full. The majority had the plastic covers on the poptop aperture. This is a lot more than what I saw 12 months ago, but that was during the supply chain issues. So who knows if this is a consequence of VW trying to figure out a fix before installing new bellows.




These all had pop tops installed.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Thought you guys might find this informative. The parking lot of the VW California Factory that builds the habitation and installs the pop tops was completely full. There was a nearby overspill carpark that was 80% full. The majority had the plastic covers on the poptop aperture. This is a lot more than what I saw 12 months ago, but that was during the supply chain issues. So who knows if this is a consequence of VW trying to figure out a fix before installing new bellows.
These all had pop tops installed.

That's very interesting - supports the line there is a shortage of bellows (as I'd expect any stock in such a situation would be diverted to new builds rather than be made available as spares). That said, the real question is what state of build is the rest of the vehicle; if they're still just base vans then perhaps that suggests a capacity issue in production, if they're otherwise finished Calis that points towards the bellows issue. @Corradobrit have you got a drone you can fly in so we can see through the windows?

 

[Corradobrit]

That's very interesting - supports the line there is a shortage of bellows (as I'd expect any stock in such a situation would be diverted to new builds rather than be made available as spares). That said, the real question is what state of build is the rest of the vehicle; if they're still just base vans then perhaps that suggests a capacity issue in production, if they're otherwise finished Calis that points towards the bellows issue. @Corradobrit have you got a drone you can fly in so we can see through the windows?

They appear to be base vans. I don't see the kitchen and wardrobe units installed either. None of the Calis had decals so were early in the production process, basically as delivered from the main factory.

 

[Robert&Catherine]

For those with the issue, have you come up with any temporary hacks to keep the area dry whilst pending a solution from VW?

I have not collected mine yet but have ordered a purcer screen so that I can avoid testing it during a camping trip. I think it could take away the excitement of our very first cali very quickly…I really feel for all those effected after months of waiting for one. I assume a purcer screen will work as a temporary fix as long as I can predict the weather!!!!

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I have not collected mine yet but have ordered a purcer screen so that I can avoid testing it during a camping trip. I think it could take away the excitement of our very first cali very quickly…I really feel for all those effected after months of waiting for one. I assume a purcer screen will work as a temporary fix as long as I can predict the weather!!!!

Funny you should say that, I took a similar route and ordered a Comfortz Cali wrap for the same reasons. I've got two young kids so I've already got all the stress I need

I am collecting my van today so will be interesting to see what EuroVans say about it, I alerted them to this thread last week and they even offered to leave my bellows open for a few days to test it in any downpours. Don't know how they got on with it yet.

 

[Nick from Bath]

As disappointing as the leaking bellows are, and we definitely won’t be giving up on getting an acceptable resolution from the dealer, we really aren’t going to let it spoil the enjoyment that the van brings. Adding a wrap to prevent a leak shouldn’t be necessary but as a temporary measure it’s not the end of the world.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Funny you should say that, I took a similar route and ordered a Comfortz Cali wrap for the same reasons. I've got two young kids so I've already got all the stress I need

I am collecting my van today so will be interesting to see what EuroVans say about it, I alerted them to this thread last week and they even offered to leave my bellows open for a few days to test it in any downpours. Don't know how they got on with it yet.

Yes, let us know what they say. They are definitely aware of this issue because there’s at least three of us on here who have picked up from EV and subsequently either written back to them to complain about the roof or have booked it in there for a warranty check.

 

[Robert&Catherine]

Funny you should say that, I took a similar route and ordered a Comfortz Cali wrap for the same reasons. I've got two young kids so I've already got all the stress I need

I am collecting my van today so will be interesting to see what EuroVans say about it, I alerted them to this thread last week and they even offered to leave my bellows open for a few days to test it in any downpours. Don't know how they got on with it yet.

I hope you have a brilliant day…very exciting

 

[RockinNRollin]

Funny you should say that, I took a similar route and ordered a Comfortz Cali wrap for the same reasons. I've got two young kids so I've already got all the stress I need

I am collecting my van today so will be interesting to see what EuroVans say about it, I alerted them to this thread last week and they even offered to leave my bellows open for a few days to test it in any downpours. Don't know how they got on with it yet.

Yes I'd be interested to hear what EuroVans say on collection. If they did leave the roof up over the weekend, it should have had a drenching . . . please remember the obligatory bellows tag photo too!

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Yes I'd be interested to hear what EuroVans say on collection. If they did leave the roof up over the weekend, it should have had a drenching . . . please remember the obligatory bellows tag photo too!

They're probably pumping it out as we speak

 

[Ryanrunsfar123]

Following this intently as I also have an Ocean on order with EV!
Ordering a wrap to de-stress going away in our own Cali for the first time with a 3 and 5 year old sounds like a good move to me!

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

Hi @Michael Breeze and @Tomdbreeze

As represents of VW Commercial Vehicles and also as VIP Trade Partner and Trade Advertiser on this forum, are you able to offer any assistance to owners with regards raising the issues with the leaking new style bellows that have been fitted to MY23 California Oceans please?

There are now multiple threads on the subject on this forum (along with similar topics on the equivalent German forum https://www.caliboard.de/topic/32905-erfahrung-neuer-faltenbalg-t61/). There are also multiple differing responses that people have shared following discussions with dealers, technicians etc.

I have collated the attached list using threads on this forum, to show the 31 MY23 California Ocean owners who have experienced leaks with the new style bellows (as at 31 July). The California Supplement (Edition 11.2022) states to "Close the pop-up roof if there is a strong wind or strong wind with driving rain". The majority of owners listed below have commented that the conditions when their vans leaked were neither strong wind, or strong wind with driving rain. Indeed, a lot of the comments relate to times where there was little or no wind, and that the problem starts after rain has been persistent though not necessarily heavy. These leaks have been reported from March onwards when the weather conditions are generally less extreme.

Considering the wet summer we are having, it is worth noting that there are very few, if any, threads from Ocean owners with the previous style bellows reporting any leaks. Indeed, three owners with MY23 models with the old style bellows have confirmed theirs do not leak.

On our behalf, are you able to raise this with the relevant powers that be within VW Commercial Vehicles, so that we may all receive a definitive response as to how this issue will be rectified and what steps we as owners need to take?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Here’s a video of mine leaking if it helps anyone. Mine is mainly leaking at the bottom of the bellows with some coming from the upper seam. This video was sent to the dealer.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Here’s a video of mine leaking if it helps anyone. Mine is mainly leaking at the bottom of the bellows with some coming from the upper seam. This video was sent to the dealer.

I wonder if the water is getting between the fabric layers at the seams above, then a hydrostatic head is forcing it through the joint at the base?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I wonder if the water is getting between the fabric layers at the seams above, then a hydrostatic head is forcing it through the joint at the base?

Yes I think so. The van was leaning to the left a little and very slightly uphill so it’s made the water run back down the left side. This was after 1 hour of continuous light to moderate rain. It took that long to become really obvious after which it just kept dripping continuously. The weather conditions are captured at the end of the video. Clearly no more than light to moderate rain and very little (if any) wind.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi @Michael Breeze and @Tomdbreeze

As represents of VW Commercial Vehicles and also as VIP Trade Partner and Trade Advertiser on this forum, are you able to offer any assistance to owners with regards raising the issues with the leaking new style bellows that have been fitted to MY23 California Oceans please?

There are now multiple threads on the subject on this forum (along with similar topics on the equivalent German forum https://www.caliboard.de/topic/32905-erfahrung-neuer-faltenbalg-t61/). There are also multiple differing responses that people have shared following discussions with dealers, technicians etc.

I have collated the attached list using threads on this forum, to show the 31 MY23 California Ocean owners who have experienced leaks with the new style bellows (as at 31 July). The California Supplement (Edition 11.2022) states to "Close the pop-up roof if there is a strong wind or strong wind with driving rain". The majority of owners listed below have commented that the conditions when their vans leaked were neither strong wind, or strong wind with driving rain. Indeed, a lot of the comments relate to times where there was little or no wind, and that the problem starts after rain has been persistent though not necessarily heavy. These leaks have been reported from March onwards when the weather conditions are generally less extreme.

Considering the wet summer we are having, it is worth noting that there are very few, if any, threads from Ocean owners with the previous style bellows reporting any leaks. Indeed, three owners with MY23 models with the old style bellows have confirmed theirs do not leak.

On our behalf, are you able to raise this with the relevant powers that be within VW Commercial Vehicles, so that we may all receive a definitive response as to how this issue will be rectified and what steps we as owners need to take?

View attachment 112253

Hi Billy, Great work and very useful. Please add these photos to your analysis.

 

[RockinNRollin]

They're probably pumping it out as we speak

I am itching to hear what was said at your collection and if they had left the roof up and if it had leaked or not?

 

[andyinluton]

Considering the wet summer we are having, it is worth noting that there are very few, if any, threads from Ocean owners with the previous style bellows reporting any leaks.

+.Billy Ocean.

Well done for collating the information.

You are wrong to state the previous bellows didn't leak, there have been quite a few reports over the years. In fact one of the very early posts on this forum on the 13th October 2013 was about a leaking roof........

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Just sitting in a carpark in the Peaks and have had a chance to test the roof in the rain. Moderate to heavy rain for less than 10 mins. No/little wind. Interesting thing was when the rain was directly on the front, the first seam to let go was the semi circular zipped seamed around the window opening. Not major leaking (rain wasn’t here long) but still enough to get drips on the ledge around the roof and some on a front seat.

Seems to me that if there is any chance of rain, you just can’t leave the roof up overnight, meaning downstairs sleeping for two only in anything but completely dry conditions.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Just sitting in a carpark in the Peaks and have had a chance to test the roof in the rain. Moderate to heavy rain for less than 10 mins. No/little wind. Interesting thing was when the rain was directly on the front, the first seam to let go was the semi circular zipped seamed around the window opening. Not major leaking (rain wasn’t here long) but still enough to get drips on the ledge around the roof and some on a front seat.

Seems to me that if there is any chance of rain, you just can’t leave the roof up overnight, meaning downstairs sleeping for two only in anything but completely dry conditions.

That's pretty rubbish - in our case there are three of us so sleeping downstairs only just isn't an option except when the weather is especially extreme (gale force winds etc..) in which case we can just about manage, but it's not comfortable.

Edit: @Fellrunner13 have you had any ingress through the side panels, or just the front?

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

+.Billy Ocean.

Well done for collating the information.

You are wrong to state the previous bellows didn't leak, there have been quite a few reports over the years. In fact one of the very early posts on this forum on the 13th October 2013 was about a leaking roof........

Agreed, I wasn’t trying to suggest that pop tops don’t have a history of leaking. The point I was attempting to make, is that in the current conditions we are experiencing, I’m not seeing posts about leaks from owners with previous bellow types. At one point, there is reference to an owner being told the bellows are merely shower proof, in which case, I would have expected lots of owners flagging they are also currently experiencing leaks.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

That's pretty rubbish - in our case there are three of us so sleeping downstairs only just isn't an option except when the weather is especially extreme (gale force winds etc..) in which case we can just about manage, but it's not comfortable.

Edit: @Fellrunner13 have you had any ingress through the side panels, or just the front?

Still nothing through the side panels.