Pooling in channel when roof up and down

[Traveller1977]

I have just been looking for threads about roof drains and spotted that you had no reply to your post!
In my opinion you should have no leaks into your cabin following rain or at any other time even if the drain holes are blocked.
It occurs to me that maybe someone has tried to clear a blocked front roof drain in the past and in doing so has inadvertently punctured the drain tube (They go 90 degrees from the roof down the "A" post).
If it were me, and you are sure your problem follows a roof repair, I would go and talk to the dealer/body shop who made the repair.

I would be interested to know how you got/get on resolving this matter.

Hi. Well it is an extremely long story, but here's a brief update - Since Nov/Dec 2016 after we noticed the initial roof leaking after the repair, we have only just got our Cali back "for good" (we hope). It has been back and forth since the roof repair was done, probably about 8 times or so.

Numerous discussions with VW on where the leak may be coming from, numerous fix attempts all failing, until they recently resealed the black plastic runners on the top of the van closest to the Windscreen. they believe this is where the leak was coming from.

However I am now so sceptical and lacking confidence that it is 100% resolved, the roof lining is now stained from the leaks so to replace this the whole roof would need replacing AGAIN and all the internal lining is oil stained from the greasy hand marks from the technicians. We have not had use of the Cali all year, only once for 2 weeks when we insisted to have it back (when we knew we wouldn't experience rain on the continent), a vehicle that we all purchase for this purpose of using as a camper van.

The fact that VW technicians initially advised there were no drainage holes; returned the vehicle with leaves/acorns inside the rim/seal with the roof down as well concerns me greatly, I also believe there is no centre out there that is 100% knowledgeable in a vehicle that is not cheap to own or run. I also feel that with all the repairs and tinkering with the vehicle it is now worth less than a vehicle without this "roof corrosion" issue. Happy to hear any thoughts on this.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi. Well it is an extremely long story, but here's a brief update - Since Nov/Dec 2016 after we noticed the initial roof leaking after the repair, we have only just got our Cali back "for good" (we hope). It has been back and forth since the roof repair was done, probably about 8 times or so.

Numerous discussions with VW on where the leak may be coming from, numerous fix attempts all failing, until they recently resealed the black plastic runners on the top of the van closest to the Windscreen. they believe this is where the leak was coming from.

However I am now so sceptical and lacking confidence that it is 100% resolved, the roof lining is now stained from the leaks so to replace this the whole roof would need replacing AGAIN and all the internal lining is oil stained from the greasy hand marks from the technicians. We have not had use of the Cali all year, only once for 2 weeks when we insisted to have it back (when we knew we wouldn't experience rain on the continent), a vehicle that we all purchase for this purpose of using as a camper van.

The fact that VW technicians initially advised there were no drainage holes; returned the vehicle with leaves/acorns inside the rim/seal with the roof down as well concerns me greatly, I also believe there is no centre out there that is 100% knowledgeable in a vehicle that is not cheap to own or run. I also feel that with all the repairs and tinkering with the vehicle it is now worth less than a vehicle without this "roof corrosion" issue. Happy to hear any thoughts on this.

Oh my word what a tail!
8 times back to the dealer! Who was that? Maybe we should all try to avoid these guys!! Have you completed the call for dealer information/experience thread?
I agree that no centre is 100% knowledgable about our Cali's. It is just that some are better than others. And unfortunately even knowledge does not necessarily translate to practical prowess!
This forum holds the most knowledge! I consider it to be a most valuable resource.
I do hope you have your Cali back "for good" and that it has stopped leaking. If this is the case I think I would be inclined to put up with the stains and greasy hand marks and try to enjoy what your Cali was meant for - Travelling with utter independence. I also hope you can catch up your lost year.

 

[kaf2546]

Hi folks, I've had a great year and 20000 miles use out of my second Cali, but for the third time (and only in this van) I had a leak from behind the passenger side dashboard near the pillar. All 3 times apparently due to blocked roof drain. I always check this area after washing and have once used a can compressed air (as advised on forum) to make sure all 4 drains run free (I heard the air spray hissing out under the bonnet). There has been no pooling of water at front of the roof when tent up. Where is water going if pipes blocked I wonder. Maybe the air passed through but there has still been a block. It doesn't seem to be going round the back of the exit hole area. Maybe it overflows back up and near where the pipe joins behind the front roof panel. It was in to the dealer under Warranty and they say today they have cleared the block and tested and all ok. I hope so... I will do my own test after pick up and keep an eye on it and report back here. I'm thinking it's actually a fractured pipe and they don't want to take off all the trim. Is it straightforward to remove the trim? If it leaks again I could then do my own assessment during heavy rain with van on slope down to front. This section of the van is in fact the equivalent of a parapet gutter in a building, i.e. a weak spot. Maybe here on the forum we can devise a better solution like a wide integrated channel or short drains (like the back) leading discreetly behind the door .... and also find the path to the T7 design team

 

[Ian Robinson]

So where does the water in the side channels come from when the roof is down? I Put my roof up recently and water poured in on passenger side came in through top vent as roof went up. There was lots of water in the front channels. I had unblocked the holes about a month prior with a syringe. So must have blocked again. Unblocked again and then poured loads of water through each side - nice gurgle and flowed fast out of wheel arches. I left roof up as it was windy with a bit of sun until both side channels were bone dry. Today put roof up again first time since and passenger side channel was full of water at front. Quick squirt with syringe and drained again ok. I will keep persevering as tube is obviously partly blocked still. But as the channels were free of water when I put roof down, where does the water come from to fill channel up again whilst roof is down? Is this normal or have I got a leak through the top of the roof? Any suggestions most appreciated.

 

[WelshGas]

So where does the water in the side channels come from when the roof is down? I Put my roof up recently and water poured in on passenger side came in through top vent as roof went up. There was lots of water in the front channels. I had unblocked the holes about a month prior with a syringe. So must have blocked again. Unblocked again and then poured loads of water through each side - nice gurgle and flowed fast out of wheel arches. I left roof up as it was windy with a bit of sun until both side channels were bone dry. Today put roof up again first time since and passenger side channel was full of water at front. Quick squirt with syringe and drained again ok. I will keep persevering as tube is obviously partly blocked still. But as the channels were free of water when I put roof down, where does the water come from to fill channel up again whilst roof is down? Is this normal or have I got a leak through the top of the roof? Any suggestions most appreciated.

If it was leaking through the roof then I would expect some staining of the roof lining.
I would check that the roof is closed equally all round visually. Check that the seal is not damaged in any way. Go round the whole seal, when closed, with some stiff paper/postcard and see if it will pass under the seal.
The Weak Point, looking at the shape of the roof and where the seal sits when closed, is the front section over the windscreen.

 

[Ian Robinson]

If it was leaking through the roof then I would expect some staining of the roof lining.
I would check that the roof is closed equally all round visually. Check that the seal is not damaged in any way. Go round the whole seal, when closed, with some stiff paper/postcard and see if it will pass under the seal.
The Weak Point, looking at the shape of the roof and where the seal sits when closed, is the front section over the windscreen.

Thanks for the reply WelshGas. The lining in the elevating roof seems to be bone dry as does the mattress - touch wood!
When I had the roof up a few weeks ago I gently cleaned the roof seal all the way round the roof and did not see any damage. I also checked and cleaned the second front seal on underside of roof and all looked ok. It looks to sit nice and even and tight when shut but I have not tested tightness with some card so will try that when the weather allows.

Do you know how the roof is constructed? Are the rails on the underside of the roof that the hydraulic arms slide along bonded to the roof itself? I know that the roof rack rails on top of the roof must be bolted through the roof skin as previous posts have talked about leaks where these bolt holes are not sealed properly (under black plastic trim in roof rail slots). The passenger side rail that the hydraulic arm slides on seemed to be wet when I put up the roof up today. Long shot, but these aren’t somehow connected on a sub frame to the underside of the roof rack rails are they? If so maybe water is seeping through roof rack rail bolt holes across onto sub frame support and ending up in the side channel. As I say, maybe a long shot, but it would be good to know the roof top construction to eliminate possibilities.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks for the reply WelshGas. The lining in the elevating roof seems to be bone dry as does the mattress - touch wood!
When I had the roof up a few weeks ago I gently cleaned the roof seal all the way round the roof and did not see any damage. I also checked and cleaned the second front seal on underside of roof and all looked ok. It looks to sit nice and even and tight when shut but I have not tested tightness with some card so will try that when the weather allows.

Do you know how the roof is constructed? Are the rails on the underside of the roof that the hydraulic arms slide along bonded to the roof itself? I know that the roof rack rails on top of the roof must be bolted through the roof skin as previous posts have talked about leaks where these bolt holes are not sealed properly (under black plastic trim in roof rail slots). The passenger side rail that the hydraulic arm slides on seemed to be wet when I put up the roof up today. Long shot, but these aren’t somehow connected on a sub frame to the underside of the roof rack rails are they? If so maybe water is seeping through roof rack rail bolt holes across onto sub frame support and ending up in the side channel. As I say, maybe a long shot, but it would be good to know the roof top construction to eliminate possibilities.

These exploded plans show the construction, but I don't see anything that can help. I don't seem to have this problem.

http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_singl...817/subcategory/817040/part_id/3723378/lang/e

http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_singl...875/subcategory/875020/part_id/3708547/lang/e

 

[Meoncoast]

Due to our drive slop our van is parked face down hill. This allows us to see just how much water exits the roof. Even on a dry day I have always been amazed about the amount of water that will run off the roof. A good example is on a frosty morning when ice melts runs off the roof and pools on the ground by the fron wheels, you can see if the front tube's block how the water backing up could cause issues.

 

[kaf2546]

Update : there were pine needles stuck. Maybe my compressed air technique blew them down further. Garage said leaks occur where first section of front drain pipe joins the next. Suggested maybe gauze to stop pine needles as holes are perfect size to let them go down ‘end on’. I’ll experiment with that but if parked amongst trees at least I’m going to park so van slopes slightly towards the rear as the rear drains are far easier to clear as of course get rid of any needles and leaves I see before roof goes down. I remember at least twice that gutters were filled with pine needles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ian Robinson]

Thanks for replies. I’m now happy that water is not coming through the top of the roof where the roof rails bolt through. It does seem to just be leaking through the front seal and into gutters either side. I can see the water marks where the water gets into the first channel at the front and then runs under the rubber seal towards the roof canvas and then runs sideways into the side channel. It looks like it is designed to drain like this. Our driveway is quite flat so rain water sits and pools on the front roof seal and then works through. I have cleaned the front seal today and applied a small amount of silicone grease to the rubber to see if this makes a more water tight seal.

Interesting point about pine needles- probably the perfect shape to get caught at bend in roof drain pipes, a small gauze might help to stop such debris getting into the drain pipes but the drain holes at the front are so small a gauze there might also cause even more water to back up in the roof side channels?

Today I have flushed the front drains through with about 1 litre each side of warm soapy water so fingers crossed they don’t block again. I just slowly poured the water into the channels and could see it come out of the wheel arches.

My roof drains did block several times over the summer, so obviously lots of dirt does get in there. Now it’s winter it seems that a combination of freezing temps over night and rain lead to my front drains freezing and water backing up in the side channels.

We do drive the camper 2-3 times per week, but from now on to keep my mind at rest I will put my roof up at least once a month over the winter to check the channels and drains - I will do this at the same time as running the parking heater and hooking up for 24hrs to top the batteries up. Should not take too long once it becomes my routine.

 

[californiaT5]

I have just been looking for threads about roof drains and spotted that you had no reply to your post!
In my opinion you should have no leaks into your cabin following rain or at any other time even if the drain holes are blocked.
It occurs to me that maybe someone has tried to clear a blocked front roof drain in the past and in doing so has inadvertently punctured the drain tube (They go 90 degrees from the roof down the "A" post).
If it were me, and you are sure your problem follows a roof repair, I would go and talk to the dealer/body shop who made the repair.

I would be interested to know how you got/get on resolving this matter.

Hi , if the square black rubber grommet that has the drain hole and through which the hydraulic pipes channel is not securely fitted or has split or the hydraulic cable mastic is compromised then water will leak through into the cavity above cab even if your drain is clear. NB. This grommet must be watertight. If taken out you can see right into the cab roof cavity!

 

[californiaT5]

Hi. Well it is an extremely long story, but here's a brief update - Since Nov/Dec 2016 after we noticed the initial roof leaking after the repair, we have only just got our Cali back "for good" (we hope). It has been back and forth since the roof repair was done, probably about 8 times or so.

Numerous discussions with VW on where the leak may be coming from, numerous fix attempts all failing, until they recently resealed the black plastic runners on the top of the van closest to the Windscreen. they believe this is where the leak was coming from.

However I am now so sceptical and lacking confidence that it is 100% resolved, the roof lining is now stained from the leaks so to replace this the whole roof would need replacing AGAIN and all the internal lining is oil stained from the greasy hand marks from the technicians. We have not had use of the Cali all year, only once for 2 weeks when we insisted to have it back (when we knew we wouldn't experience rain on the continent), a vehicle that we all purchase for this purpose of using as a camper van.

The fact that VW technicians initially advised there were no drainage holes; returned the vehicle with leaves/acorns inside the rim/seal with the roof down as well concerns me greatly, I also believe there is no centre out there that is 100% knowledgeable in a vehicle that is not cheap to own or run. I also feel that with all the repairs and tinkering with the vehicle it is now worth less than a vehicle without this "roof corrosion" issue. Happy to hear any thoughts on this.

Hi , if the square black rubber grommet that has the drain hole and through which the hydraulic pipes channel is not securely fitted or has split or the hydraulic cable mastic is compromised then water will leak through into the cavity above cab even if your drain is clear. NB. This grommet must be watertight. If taken out you can see right into the cab roof cavity!

 

[californiaT5]

Hi , if the square black rubber grommet that has the drain hole and through which the hydraulic pipes channel is not securely fitted or has split or the hydraulic cable mastic is compromised then water will leak through into the cavity above cab even if your drain is clear. NB. This grommet must be watertight. If taken out you can see right into the cab roof cavity!