5.1 EGR thread

[Criminallyvulgar]

Sorry I know there’s been a million of these, but would a 2013 5.1 be free of the EGR issues which caused such problems on the 10/11 engines.

Would the EGR issue put you off buying a 5.1?

 

[WelshGas]

Sorry I know there’s been a million of these, but would a 2013 5.1 be free of the EGR issues which caused such problems on the 10/11 engines.

Would the EGR issue put you off buying a 5.1?

Only the 180 biturbo engine was affected, and not all engines. In fact a relatively small percentage.
What milage has been done?
Personally it would not, BUT I would be aware of the possibility and be prepared to do what was necessary.
Only you can make the decision.
£7000 to £9000 for a complete new engine and ancillaries.
If the vehicle has less than 60,000 miles FSH and a very good price it could be worth an educated gamble. However if it is at the top of your budget then think very carefully.

The rest of the comments on this thread will no doubt be the exact opposite.

 

[Criminallyvulgar]

Thank you! Would it require a complete engine rebuild or is there preventative action that could be taken?

 

[WelshGas]

Thank you! Would it require a complete engine rebuild or is there preventative action that could be taken?

Some have electively changed the EGR valve to the latest version if oil usage is OK. Possibly works
Others have mapped out the EGR and DPF but this may cause problems with MOT.
The engine can also be rebuilt at a lower cost.

Only the EGR replacement and engine rebuild or replacement is a guarantee. However, as I said before not all engines are affected, and those that are there is no guarantee that it’s just the EGR and there could be other reasons or combination of reasons.

 

[TripleBee]

No. What do you mean?




Bought the van in may 2010 (made in november 2009).
Went into limp mode in september 2013 with the engine light on and coil flashing light with 42000km. 900km from home in the Dordogne (France).
Replaced the EGR valve in september 2013 and has been fine up to now in 2020 with 145000km.
The first EGR's are always a risk, the latest will be the most durable ones.
Eventually they will fail again as it is still a mechanical component with electronics on it. And don't forget the outlet temperature, coolant water running through it.
Luckily those give no damage to the engine unlike the 180hp ones. It's just a very unpleasant experience, but I guess there are more other experiences that are far worse than this.

 

[AlanC]

The high oil consumption issue relates only to the 180ps BiTurbo engine built during 2010/11. I was told, when my Cali became affected, that VW knows the serial numbers of faulty engines. Some 180ps engines in later years were also affected but to a much lesser degree.

The reason for this was that the EGR was a made of alloy on the 180 (other engines have a different design) and as exhaust gasses are recirculated through it, cooled and then passed back into the inlet of the engine, the alloy was corroded inside the cooler and an aluminum oxide passed into the inlet wearing the piston bores, hence the higher oil consumption.

The way to check is to have a look at the serial number on the EGR. This is located on a plate on the alloy housing to the right of the base of the oil filter. This is at the front bottom of the engine behind the radiator and can be seen easily from above. If the part number has a suffix number (A, B, or D) then the ERG should be fine. If there is no suffix, then personally I would have a look for another van.

There is a Facebook page where this issue is discussed at length.

Having said all that, other engine powers are not affected with this issue and as WG has said, not all 2010/11 have succumbed.

Good luck,

Alan

 

[Criminallyvulgar]

Thanks Alan.

As it’s not my Ocean, is theERG number easy to find in the engine?

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks Alan.

As it’s not my Ocean, is theERG number easy to find in the engine?

In the engine compartment, look downwards, at the front, to the L of centre. You should see the Oil Filter canister. To the left and below is the EGR valve and Cooler. There should be a label, white in colour, with the Serial number alongside the Canister.

 

[Criminallyvulgar]

Thanks so much alan!

 

[AlanC]

Thanks Alan.

As it’s not my Ocean, is theERG number easy to find in the engine?

Yes, except the label may be covered in oily grime. A quick wipe with a tissue and you will see the relevant number.
Alan

 

[2into1]

As it’s not my Ocean

If it is truly an Ocean, (ie 2016 onwards) then you don't need to worry. The issue impacted the 180 hp SEs that started build in 2010. When it finished is very much up for debate, but I'd take any opinion stating it was all sorted by 2011 with a very large shovel full of salt.
The /d is the only cooler known not to fall to bits with the potential to kill your engine. The /a and /c don't seem any better than the no suffix version.

 

[2into1]

The high oil consumption issue relates only to the 180ps BiTurbo engine built during 2010/11

That is plain wrong and needs to be corrected. I know a caveat is added later, but could clearly give the wrong impression.
The issue certainly seemed worse during these years (there has been talk of a block change after that point) but there are plenty of example well after that date range.
What % those examples are of the total made, and what is full range of causes will remain forever up for debate, but to say anything post 2011 is in the clear is simply not correct.
There have been 3 changes to the design of the EGR cooler, only the last (/d) is thought (hoped) to have solved the problem.

 

[WelshGas]

That is plain wrong and needs to be corrected. I know a caveat is added later, but could clearly give the wrong impression.
The issue certainly seemed worse during these years (there has been talk of a block change after that point) but there are plenty of example well after that date range.
What % those examples are of the total made, and what is full range of causes will remain forever up for debate, but to say anything post 2011 is in the clear is simply not correct.
There have been 3 changes to the design of the EGR cooler, only the last (/d) is thought (hoped) to have solved the problem.

I was referring to the fact that only the 180 engine is affected, not the 140.
Whether later manufactured engines suffer the same problem is debatable. The fact that there is a Facebook group with some disgruntled owners, and I do mean some not many, of some later vehicles with oil consumption issues is not the same as evidence. Any number of factors could be involved in their misfortune but no one has taken VW to task , individually or as a group, so they’re not convinced either.
Many engine ancillaries go through design and production changes for numerous reasons. That doesn’t mean they are necessarily faulty.

 

[willwander]

I know for certain of two 180's registered after 2013 that had full engine replacements due to excessive oil consumption, both done at my local independent garage, I chatted in detail to the mechanic that did them, he said it was a known issue in the trade.

 

[AlanC]

That is plain wrong and needs to be corrected. I know a caveat is added later, but could clearly give the wrong impression.
The issue certainly seemed worse during these years (there has been talk of a block change after that point) but there are plenty of example well after that date range.
What % those examples are of the total made, and what is full range of causes will remain forever up for debate, but to say anything post 2011 is in the clear is simply not correct.
There have been 3 changes to the design of the EGR cooler, only the last (/d) is thought (hoped) to have solved the problem.

There was a very specific manufacturing issue with the EGR designed and installed on early 180ps engines between 2010 and 2011. VW knew about it to the point of knowing the engine numbers affected. This issue lead to the updated coated Alloy EGR cooler as a result.

That is not to say that other later engines have not suffer high oil consumption or that other power rated engine suffer high oil consumption. Were the high oil consumption issues due to the same issue or another one in later models?

Unless this was clearly due to the same problematic component, then I don’t think you can relate the issue directly to later years.

In addition, when was the engine manufactured? A vehicle registered in 2012/3 could well have been built earlier and held in stock before being registered sometime later.

Unfortunately only VW know and are certainly holding this information close to their chests.
Alan

 

[2into1]

@AlanC - you write as if there has been only two versions of the cooler, one good, one bad. There has been 4 (the one without a suffix, then suffix a, suffix c and suffix d... Don't know why b was left out!).
The suffix d only seems to have made it onto the VERY LAST few 180ps Cali's to have been made. Plenty of /c and earlier coolers have turned up on 2015 vans.
I don't think anyone here knows what specific changes occurred between the models, but failure has been documented on all of them apart from /d...... Which makes sense, as if the /c was perfect, why would they have made the /d with the apparently new coating?
So as I said above, it's not a case that the risk stopped in 2011 (or 2012 with engines manufacturerd in 2011). The risk will have hopefully reduced with each iteration, but failures of the 3 early types are documented on the Facebook group.

I accept that a random selection of Facebook postings might not satisfy everyone, but it's the best there is, and it shows that SOME 2013 (perhaps later) models with /c coolers are suffering the same catastrophic bore wear.
These cases don't represent other causes of oil loss (turbo failure etc). They have lost compression due to scored bores. Oil analysis support the view that the coolers are still failing. The consequences (drinking the oil that now passes the rings, clogging the dpf, putting the vans in limp mode) are consistent with the early cases.
When fitted in time, the /d so far doesn't seem to have the same issues but less time has passed.

I don't enjoy having to continue to spell this out. There is a thread a month all going the same way. Yes - not all vans are impacted, No we don't know how many are, but people implying the issue is over and done with, or never existed because it doesn't meet their standard of evidence, are causing the issue to be re run, over and over again.

 

[WelshGas]

I don't enjoy having to continue to spell this out.

Then why keep on. If the EGR valve is responsible why has no one taken VW to task? Because it cannot be proven that it is the cause as there are lots of vehicles with no problems. As long as potential buyers are aware of the possibility.
Oh, and there have been reports of T6 vehicles with excessive oil consumption as well.

 

[Steve Phennah]

Hi, There does not seem to have been any recent chat on the issue of excessive oil consumption for the 180PS 2010/2011 California....
Mine was using circa 1litre / 400miles at 100,000miles. After discussions with dealer (Listers) and escalating to VW customer care I was offered 50% on a replacement engine which has now just been fitted.
Just thought some might like to know especially as many Cali's of this age will be approaching 100K. Mine did not start using oil until about 80,000 miles.
BTW the service manager agreed that the EGR was the most likely cause of the problem.
Hope this might help a few who could be experiencing similar issues.

 

[larrylamb]

Hi, There does not seem to have been any recent chat on the issue of excessive oil consumption for the 180PS 2010/2011 California....

Twas only mentioned yesterday

5.1 EGR thread

Sorry I know there’s been a million of these, but would a 2013 5.1 be free of the EGR issues which caused such problems on the 10/11 engines. Would the EGR issue put you off buying a 5.1?

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Glad you got some help from VW, most don't.

 

[Spottydog]

The high oil consumption issue relates only to the 180ps BiTurbo engine built during 2010/11. I was told, when my Cali became affected, that VW knows the serial numbers of faulty engines. Some 180ps engines in later years were also affected but to a much lesser degree.

The reason for this was that the EGR was a made of alloy on the 180 (other engines have a different design) and as exhaust gasses are recirculated through it, cooled and then passed back into the inlet of the engine, the alloy was corroded inside the cooler and an aluminum oxide passed into the inlet wearing the piston bores, hence the higher oil consumption.

The way to check is to have a look at the serial number on the EGR. This is located on a plate on the alloy housing to the right of the base of the oil filter. This is at the front bottom of the engine behind the radiator and can be seen easily from above. If the part number has a suffix number (A, B, or D) then the ERG should be fine. If there is no suffix, then personally I would have a look for another van.

There is a Facebook page where this issue is discussed at length.

Having said all that, other engine powers are not affected with this issue and as WG has said, not all 2010/11 have succumbed.

Good luck,

Alan

I had this problem with a 2012 180bhp bi turbo at 60,000 miles and it was a real headache. Even VW had problems sorting it. Having spent several thousand I got rid of it!

 

[Jackpine]

The high oil consumption issue relates only to the 180ps BiTurbo engine built during 2010/11. I was told, when my Cali became affected, that VW knows the serial numbers of faulty engines. Some 180ps engines in later years were also affected but to a much lesser degree.

The reason for this was that the EGR was a made of alloy on the 180 (other engines have a different design) and as exhaust gasses are recirculated through it, cooled and then passed back into the inlet of the engine, the alloy was corroded inside the cooler and an aluminum oxide passed into the inlet wearing the piston bores, hence the higher oil consumption.

The way to check is to have a look at the serial number on the EGR. This is located on a plate on the alloy housing to the right of the base of the oil filter. This is at the front bottom of the engine behind the radiator and can be seen easily from above. If the part number has a suffix number (A, B, or D) then the ERG should be fine. If there is no suffix, then personally I would have a look for another van.

There is a Facebook page where this issue is discussed at length.

Having said all that, other engine powers are not affected with this issue and as WG has said, not all 2010/11 have succumbed.

Good luck,

Alan
Hi Alan ,
Is this bad ?

 

[clarinetbcn]

You might want to read post #16 above. The photo seems to show a no-suffix EGR cooler.

 

[raynormor]

Just an aside
I changed the /0 cooler for a /D after 40000 miles and having suffered no oil consumption - not a drop between services (5000/year)- as a preventative measure-
Chopped up the old one and I can say that nothing went through that cooler for a long time- completely coked up. I guess it failed in a mode that didn’t register with the ecu so kept running brilliantly. It’s a fantastic engine/vehicle to drive I love it and hope it will do many more years holidays to come. Oil analysis showed minimal contamination.
Short of a borescope inspection of the cylinders there’s not much more I can do except cross my fingers

 

[briwy]

Our 14 reg has a A suffix EGR and has about 68k on now and no problems as yet. Oil change at least once a year and only use premium brand fuels which personally I think probably helps.
I must admit I would be a bit wary of buying a secondhand one unless it had a good provable service history as above.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Our 14 reg has a A suffix EGR and has about 68k on now and no problems as yet. Oil change at least once a year and only use premium brand fuels which personally I think probably helps.
I must admit I would be a bit wary of buying a secondhand one unless it had a good provable service history as above.

Have you considered having an oil analysis done to see if there is aluminum oxide contamination? At best it could set your mind at ease, and at worst you could detect a problem before damage is done.