(68 reg) Disappointing test drive. Could use experienced input.

[GeorgeandAnne]

Hello, Anne here.

It’s been ages, what with one thing and another. After an off-putting experience with JCT600 in Hull, we bought a Berlingo to turn into a micro-camper, and used the money saved to put towards a house purchase, which duly fell through. It’s been that kind of a year. It is a surprisingly nice car, in excellent condition with a lovely online community, but isn’t really working for “fun” family trips out. It did bring it home to us though that really, for our fam, a California Beach might be a better bet.

So when a Beach came up locally to us, we popped out for a drive. And we’re really disappointed. We’ve only ever hired an Auto DSG 199, and despite the lighter load, the Beach’s 150 felt really sluggish. The power steering also felt heavy. Now, I know the Berlingo is a very flighty, (and frankly irritatingly over-engineered) car, but I do own a 65 TDI Auto Golf, and the steering was heavier than that, especially when reversing or doing a 3-point turn. Which is not my experience with the 2017 199 DSG auto California Ocean.

Is this what is to be expected from a 150 PS engine? (I would never have dared to put my foot to the floor of the 199, but even when I did in this one, it just didn’t respond much).
Is this the Auto aspect in the 150 making the acceleration so sluggish? Would it be better as a manual? (I’d be prepared to consider it).
Do you think this is a vehicle fault with this particular van?
Or is this a new bit of engineering since 2018 that is ruining the driving experience, and could be tuned out or fixed?

We live in Lincolnshire, with some of the most treacherous roads in the country. Being able to put your foot down and get out of trouble is quite essential. If this is to be expected from the 150, then we’re off to drive some Oceans.

*****George will be pleased, so please don’t hesitate to be honest*****

 

[Perfectos]

Curious that you say the steering was heavy on the Beach , but it was not on the 2017 Ocean you hired previously, they use the exact same steering rack and geometry.

the 150 ps engine is no slouch

are you sure the tyres were inflated correctly ?

 

[Drpps]

Is this a dealer vehicle? Power steering doesn’t sound right, although it isn’t finger light anyway.

They have they changed to an electric mechanical power steering for all the driver aids (lane assist etc) so a new one will feel different again but 2017 and 2018 should be the same

150 in a Beach should be plenty. 140 in our SE/Ocean, (albeit an manual) and I am better able to overtake than our asthmatic 1.6 Focus even fully loaded. Equally they aren’t sports cars so might depend on your other reference ie if you have another car you drive other than the Berlingo.
The DSG may have some effect although only from a standing start as there can be some hesitation from a quick get away.

 

[GeorgeandAnne]

Curious that you say the steering was heavy on the Beach , but it was not on the 2017 Ocean you hired previously, they use the exact same steering rack and geometry.

the 150 ps engine is no slouch

are you sure the tyres were inflated correctly ?

Thanks for the reply @Perfectos, George here.

They didn't look underinflated, but they'd been shined to within an inch of their life by that stuff that dealers cover tyres with, so it was hard to tell. But we didn't think to check.

What would the correct inflation pressure be for a Beach with 16in wheels and 150 PS? I've checked the listing, and in the photos one of the tyres reads 215 65B16C. That doesn't mean much to me, but I did read on another thread that the narrower tyres needed higher pressure, so maybe that could be the problem.

I can ask them to check. Thanks.

 

[GeorgeandAnne]

Is this a dealer vehicle? Power steering doesn’t sound right, although it isn’t finger light anyway.

They have they changed to an electric mechanical power steering for all the driver aids (lane assist etc) so a new one will feel different again but 2017 and 2018 should be the same

150 in a Beach should be plenty. 140 in our SE/Ocean, (albeit an manual) and I am better able to overtake than our asthmatic 1.6 Focus even fully loaded. Equally they aren’t sports cars so might depend on your other reference ie if you have another car you drive other than the Berlingo.
The DSG may have some effect although only from a standing start as there can be some hesitation from a quick get away.

Thanks @Drpps for the detailed reply, George here.

It started life as a VW demo vehicle apparently, then was sold to 1 private owner, and then onto the current dealer (not VW).

Glad to hear that the 150 generally speaking isn't as sluggish. It was hard for us to believe that what we felt during the test drive was to be expected, given how many Oceans and Beaches out there are 150, and also that I'd read somewhere that without the kitchen and fittings of the Ocean, a Beach should be carrying the equivalent of 2-3 passengers less in weight.

Understand about the DSG could make standing starts less responsive than manuals. Good point.

We've driven 3 Cali Oceans (all 199) in total - 1 repeat hire of a 2017, and 2 test drives of 2019 Oceans - and the Beach just felt very heavy on the power steering and lacking the acceleration of the other Calis.

Thanks for the info.

 

[GeorgeandAnne]

Question for both @Perfectos and @Drpps (and anyone else). We've been reading on the forum of some owners lowering the suspension on their Calis to help with wallowing in the corners. The Beach we test drove yesterday did feel more sturdy in the corners to be fair, than the other Calis we've driven.

Do you think any of the common tweaks to the drive could be responsible for the heavy steering? Just wondering whether to ask the dealer to check.

Thanks for all the comments/advice so far.

 

[Nolan]

I’ve got a 150 Beach, the steering is by no means heavy with the standard wheels on mine. That’s with the VW lowering springs although they don’t make it especially low.

Power wise it’s not especially fast, although it does pull away perfectly well and you have to put your foot down and wait for a lower gear to get any significant acceleration at higher speeds. Having said that it’s fine cruising as NSL or motorway speeds.

 

[GeorgeandAnne]

Thanks @Nolan - good to hear your feedback.

Perhaps its our expectation on having to put your foot down and wait that is confusing us. This was predominately when accelerating on dual carriageway and not feeling it quick enough for our liking, rather than the top speed reached.

On the steering side it definitely sounds as if something is wrong there. Reversing around corners with 3 passengers, but no other kit or luggage felt almost as heavy as our old Toyota MPV did when the power steering had an issue.

Out of interest, did you find that the lowering impacted the drive at all? Interested to read so many have done it, as I don't currently understand any downsides to it (if any). Thanks.

 

[The Merle]

Hello, Anne here.

It’s been ages, what with one thing and another. After an off-putting experience with JCT600 in Hull, we bought a Berlingo to turn into a micro-camper, and used the money saved to put towards a house purchase, which duly fell through. It’s been that kind of a year. It is a surprisingly nice car, in excellent condition with a lovely online community, but isn’t really working for “fun” family trips out. It did bring it home to us though that really, for our fam, a California Beach might be a better bet.

So when a Beach came up locally to us, we popped out for a drive. And we’re really disappointed. We’ve only ever hired an Auto DSG 199, and despite the lighter load, the Beach’s 150 felt really sluggish. The power steering also felt heavy. Now, I know the Berlingo is a very flighty, (and frankly irritatingly over-engineered) car, but I do own a 65 TDI Auto Golf, and the steering was heavier than that, especially when reversing or doing a 3-point turn. Which is not my experience with the 2017 199 DSG auto California Ocean.

Is this what is to be expected from a 150 PS engine? (I would never have dared to put my foot to the floor of the 199, but even when I did in this one, it just didn’t respond much).
Is this the Auto aspect in the 150 making the acceleration so sluggish? Would it be better as a manual? (I’d be prepared to consider it).
Do you think this is a vehicle fault with this particular van?
Or is this a new bit of engineering since 2018 that is ruining the driving experience, and could be tuned out or fixed?

We live in Lincolnshire, with some of the most treacherous roads in the country. Being able to put your foot down and get out of trouble is quite essential. If this is to be expected from the 150, then we’re off to drive some Oceans.

*****George will be pleased, so please don’t hesitate to be honest*****

Probably the worst thing is driving/having a 199 then going to a 150 it will feel under powered.
I have a 150 joker and it’s a lot heavier than a cali loaded up, don’t find it sluggish at all.
I use to own a manual 180 cali and my auto 150 feels the same to drive.
If a beach meets your needs then don’t waste money buying an ocean (as it sounds like you don’t want fridge etc).
At the end of the day these vehicles are vans and not a little speedy car, you will adapt.

 

[Nolan]

I think that since owning the beach for 3 years, I now use the engine/gearbox differently in that if I want to accelerate, I do put my foot down and let the gearbox do it’s thing, gradually putting your foot down and expecting a shove in the back is a recipe for disappointment I’ve never driven the more powerful version to compare.

it definitely sounds like the steering has an issue, VW lowering kit is so mild I can’t imagine it makes much difference.

 

[B J G]

215 width tyres should be the easiest/lightest to steer with but does seem odd, could be just due to being used to the Citroen.
Feel like I'm breaking my wrists when I first drive my 1960's car with no steering assistance.

DSG can be 'remapped' by TVS to make it more responsive and also the engine if an issue remains after DSG upgrade.
DSG upgrade makes it much better on twisty B roads as always in the correct gear. Under £400.

Can't comment on 150 performance.

 

[Stu@rt]

I'd be keen to learn what suspension mods had been carried out and by who. It's imperative that castor, camber and toe are all perfect after any mods. Even more so if its not OEM parts in play.

 

[GeorgeandAnne]

Probably the worst thing is driving/having a 199 then going to a 150 it will feel under powered.
I have a 150 joker and it’s a lot heavier than a cali loaded up, don’t find it sluggish at all.
I use to own a manual 180 cali and my auto 150 feels the same to drive.
If a beach meets your needs then don’t waste money buying an ocean (as it sounds like you don’t want fridge etc).
At the end of the day these vehicles are vans and not a little speedy car, you will adapt.

Thanks @4x4 joker for the reply. I know you're right in terms of going down from 199 to 150, mainly in terms of expectation, if nothing else.

It probably is just the case of getting used to the Beach first, and then judging it on its overall merits.

The flexibility of the Beach is was is edging the decision at the moment. We're likely to be using it for a day van or weekend trips more than longer getaway, so being able to add/remove pods, as I've seen others do and use the space differently does appeal.

Add to that the fact that Anne is not too keen on cooking food in whichever Cali we do opt for, and some of the main benefits of the Ocean over the Beach are less crucial to us than for others.

Good to hear that your 150 Joker performs well when fully loaded. Thanks for your thoughts on this. I'm sure we'll get used to it.

 

[GeorgeandAnne]

I think that since owning the beach for 3 years, I now use the engine/gearbox differently in that if I want to accelerate, I do put my foot down and let the gearbox do it’s thing, gradually putting your foot down and expecting a shove in the back is a recipe for disappointment I’ve never driven the more powerful version to compare.

it definitely sounds like the steering has an issue, VW lowering kit is so mild I can’t imagine it makes much difference.

Thanks @Nolan for the reply. I guess once you get used to a new vehicle and drive it regularly, one does tend to adapt your driving style to suit it better.

Thinking back to our driving of the Ocean 199's, I guess we were so pleasantly surprised that the 'shove' was there whilst overtaking on motorways and dual carriageways, that we may just be having unrealistic expectations. Still, it's good to know the 150 still works fine for you.

The steering on the other hand sounds like it does have some kind of issue, tyre-related or not. That, I do need to get to the bottom of. Thanks again!

 

[GeorgeandAnne]

215 width tyres should be the easiest/lightest to steer with but does seem odd, could be just due to being used to the Citroen.
Feel like I'm breaking my wrists when I first drive my 1960's car with no steering assistance.

DSG can be 'remapped' by TVS to make it more responsive and also the engine if an issue remains after DSG upgrade.
DSG upgrade makes it much better on twisty B roads as always in the correct gear. Under £400.

Can't comment on 150 performance.

Thanks for the reply @B J G. I think you're right, in that something does seem off. There's no denying that the Berlingo can be very twitchy and responsive at speed in comparison, but this Beach just seemed very heavy for basic maneouvers from a standing start (reversing, reverse/parallel park etc.).

That said, I know what you mean about it being age and vehicle specific. When we lose the power steering on our Toyota MPV it suddenly feels like I'm driving a tank!

I didn't know about the existence of DSG remapping until your post, so thanks for the tip. I've just spent the last 20 mins going down a rabbithole of threads covering the various options available. Interesting stuff! Thanks again.

 

[B J G]

I'd be keen to learn what suspension mods had been carried out and by who. It's imperative that castor, camber and toe are all perfect after any mods. Even more so if its not OEM parts in play.

I think that I've gone pretty much as far as can be done without the bling factor.

Bilstein Air Suspension with E-Level control. 3 preset height levels to whatever you desire. Fully adjustable on any corner at the touch of a button, makes for easy on site levelling within suspension range. Very fast height changes. Uses the Bilstein B14 units with air bags in place of steel springs.
H&R Anti Roll Bars, ARB's
Pollybush adjustable units front and rear, permits all suspension angles to be calibrated. Caster & Camber on Front, Camber on rear. In addition to tracking.

204PS remapped by Pendle to 255PS
DSG remapped by TVS with their Stage2+ version. Told that was to match the 255PS engine.

Wheels 7.5"Jx17" Borbet 1320kgs load rated.
Tyres Michelin 235/60/17 106V SUV Crossclimate.

 

[Perfectos]

Thanks for the reply @Perfectos, George here.

They didn't look underinflated, but they'd been shined to within an inch of their life by that stuff that dealers cover tyres with, so it was hard to tell. But we didn't think to check.

What would the correct inflation pressure be for a Beach with 16in wheels and 150 PS? I've checked the listing, and in the photos one of the tyres reads 215 65B16C. That doesn't mean much to me, but I did read on another thread that the narrower tyres needed higher pressure, so maybe that could be the problem.

I can ask them to check. Thanks.

Correct tyre pressures would be edit:
46psi refer to the photo in the link I have attached
, if the van was loaded that could increase

the correct tyre pressures for the relevant tyre size are shown on a sticker on the B pillar (just below the door catch ) open the drivers door and look at the B pillar.

Tyre pressure

Hi We are about to embark on our first holiday away. We have a California Beach (Feb 15) and we've never check the tyre pressure. We were about to do it today but confused about the correct pressure that they need to be at. Our tyres are 215/65R 16C 106/104T and the table on the chassis gives...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Wildcamper]

We have a lwb150 dsg van conversion with a high top and factory 216 16 tyres/wheels and no lowering. No issues with performance, traction, acceleration including up hill or roll, reversing, parking is easy. Maybe we are easy to please but we gentle drivers.

 

[AW-Cali]

150 DSG 2016 Beach, lowered on adjustable Bilstein 40mm ish. 255/45R18. Power steering not dramatically impacted after changing from 17” 215’s, but certainly not city car light.

Always expected to remap after purchase after many people making comments on power, and me being used to exec motors around 180-200 bhp. However having spent plenty of pennies on it since purchase, over 2 years ago, I have felt no ‘need’ to spend on remap.

Generally enough to give confidence, yet do need to ‘ use all she’s got’ on the handful of occasions you want to make big moves around vehicles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dctrl]

I also test drove a 150 DSG before purchase, it was a Multivan version, comparable, if not heavier, with a cali beach.

I was disappointed as well. It almost put me off the california route. I thought it was nervous, not having traction. To my feelings it wasn't the 150bhp that felt slow (in this short testdrive), it was the traction. I never drove FWD car before, and found myself loosing traction in every only slightly uphill start, or when 'quick inserting into traffic'. Especially the DSG feels nervous at start.

So I did decide on a 204 4motion. I would have settled with 150DSG 4motion, but as I had an opportunity I took it, and it had 204bhp. Now after 7months of use, being used to the car and it's use (restrictions), I still think 150bhp should be enough, even for this heavier Ocean, untill you find yourself in the mountains (which is only the case on longer trips).
As I expected, coming from 6yo mercedes midclass car, everything in a mercedes car (and i mean really everything) is more refined in working manners, from door-slam-feel over auto boxes and especially all electronics, even when comparing 6yo versus new vw. That is untill you make use of the camping part offcourse.

So FWIW, relatively the berlingo is a 'hot hatch' while the California is more of a sedan or luxury car.
Hot hatches can do with 4cylinders (even 3), while luxury cars must have 6 to mask their size and weight.

As for the steering, it doesn't sound normal. When I occasionally get back to my old 2001 Mercedes (the van is the daily runner), now that is heavy steering. It also has shortage of traction though, at 350+bhp to just 2 rear wheels.

Hope this can be of some use for you, as I recognized the story.

 

[andyinluton]

It doesn’t sound right to me. Our old 140 Se complete with kitchen sink 5 seats & fully loaded certainly wasn’t slow once it was rolling. Could of done with a bit more oomph to help accelerate uphill in the Pyrenees, but could hold its own in the outside lane on the M25

Having said that, you are not the first person to note the lack of performance from a 150 I wonder if there is something clogged up.

The steering definitely sounds like a fault.

 

[Kimmy491]

Hello, Anne here.

It’s been ages, what with one thing and another. After an off-putting experience with JCT600 in Hull, we bought a Berlingo to turn into a micro-camper, and used the money saved to put towards a house purchase, which duly fell through. It’s been that kind of a year. It is a surprisingly nice car, in excellent condition with a lovely online community, but isn’t really working for “fun” family trips out. It did bring it home to us though that really, for our fam, a California Beach might be a better bet.

So when a Beach came up locally to us, we popped out for a drive. And we’re really disappointed. We’ve only ever hired an Auto DSG 199, and despite the lighter load, the Beach’s 150 felt really sluggish. The power steering also felt heavy. Now, I know the Berlingo is a very flighty, (and frankly irritatingly over-engineered) car, but I do own a 65 TDI Auto Golf, and the steering was heavier than that, especially when reversing or doing a 3-point turn. Which is not my experience with the 2017 199 DSG auto California Ocean.

Is this what is to be expected from a 150 PS engine? (I would never have dared to put my foot to the floor of the 199, but even when I did in this one, it just didn’t respond much).
Is this the Auto aspect in the 150 making the acceleration so sluggish? Would it be better as a manual? (I’d be prepared to consider it).
Do you think this is a vehicle fault with this particular van?
Or is this a new bit of engineering since 2018 that is ruining the driving experience, and could be tuned out or fixed?

We live in Lincolnshire, with some of the most treacherous roads in the country. Being able to put your foot down and get out of trouble is quite essential. If this is to be expected from the 150, then we’re off to drive some Oceans.

*****George will be pleased, so please don’t hesitate to be honest*****

Personally I wokjx

It doesn’t sound right to me. Our old 140 Se complete with kitchen sink 5 seats & fully loaded certainly wasn’t slow once it was rolling. Could of done with a bit more oomph to help accelerate uphill in the Pyrenees, but could hold its own in the outside lane on the M25

Having said that, you are not the first person to note the lack of performance from a 150 I wonder if there is something clogged up.

The steering definitely sounds like a fault.

Personally I would test drive another one and give this one a miss. Lesson of life is don't buy if not sure as if will never be right for you.

 

[flying banana]

I've had a 150 beach although It was manual . I thought it was great . I'm now on a 204 ocean and in my opinion there is a big difference especially mid range power. Lots of nice 204 150 discussions in here

 

[B J G]

I also test drove a 150 DSG before purchase, it was a Multivan version, comparable, if not heavier, with a cali beach.

I was disappointed as well. It almost put me off the california route. I thought it was nervous, not having traction. To my feelings it wasn't the 150bhp that felt slow (in this short testdrive), it was the traction. I never drove FWD car before, and found myself loosing traction in every only slightly uphill start, or when 'quick inserting into traffic'. Especially the DSG feels nervous at start.

So I did decide on a 204 4motion. I would have settled with 150DSG 4motion, but as I had an opportunity I took it, and it had 204bhp. Now after 7months of use, being used to the car and it's use (restrictions), I still think 150bhp should be enough, even for this heavier Ocean, untill you find yourself in the mountains (which is only the case on longer trips).
As I expected, coming from 6yo mercedes midclass car, everything in a mercedes car (and i mean really everything) is more refined in working manners, from door-slam-feel over auto boxes and especially all electronics, even when comparing 6yo versus new vw. That is untill you make use of the camping part offcourse.

So FWIW, relatively the berlingo is a 'hot hatch' while the California is more of a sedan or luxury car.
Hot hatches can do with 4cylinders (even 3), while luxury cars must have 6 to mask their size and weight.

As for the steering, it doesn't sound normal. When I occasionally get back to my old 2001 Mercedes (the van is the daily runner), now that is heavy steering. It also has shortage of traction though, at 350+bhp to just 2 rear wheels.

Hope this can be of some use for you, as I recognized the story.

Berlingo 'car' is based on the Berlingo 'Van' not a hot hatch.
Citroens are lightweight and pretty quick off the mark.

 

[Multi1100]

Hello, Anne here.

It’s been ages, what with one thing and another. After an off-putting experience with JCT600 in Hull, we bought a Berlingo to turn into a micro-camper, and used the money saved to put towards a house purchase, which duly fell through. It’s been that kind of a year. It is a surprisingly nice car, in excellent condition with a lovely online community, but isn’t really working for “fun” family trips out. It did bring it home to us though that really, for our fam, a California Beach might be a better bet.

So when a Beach came up locally to us, we popped out for a drive. And we’re really disappointed. We’ve only ever hired an Auto DSG 199, and despite the lighter load, the Beach’s 150 felt really sluggish. The power steering also felt heavy. Now, I know the Berlingo is a very flighty, (and frankly irritatingly over-engineered) car, but I do own a 65 TDI Auto Golf, and the steering was heavier than that, especially when reversing or doing a 3-point turn. Which is not my experience with the 2017 199 DSG auto California Ocean.

Is this what is to be expected from a 150 PS engine? (I would never have dared to put my foot to the floor of the 199, but even when I did in this one, it just didn’t respond much).
Is this the Auto aspect in the 150 making the acceleration so sluggish? Would it be better as a manual? (I’d be prepared to consider it).
Do you think this is a vehicle fault with this particular van?
Or is this a new bit of engineering since 2018 that is ruining the driving experience, and could be tuned out or fixed?

We live in Lincolnshire, with some of the most treacherous roads in the country. Being able to put your foot down and get out of trouble is quite essential. If this is to be expected from the 150, then we’re off to drive some Oceans.

*****George will be pleased, so please don’t hesitate to be honest*****

150 HP Beach should not be sluggish. I owned a 115 HP Beach, manual gearbox, and that one was not sluggish also. My current 150 Ocean is also not sluggish although it weighs about 400 kg more.
I would recommend a test drive in another 150HP Beach, preferably via a VW dealer, and see how that one performs.

By the way, the SE or Ocean has more differences in its specs than only the kitchen and closets, for instance double glazed windows, better sound and temp insulation etc. But you can easily check that for yourselves via the VW Cali site(s).

Good luck with your choice!