90 / 180 days in Europe

[Azteccamper]

Hi. Planning our our European tours for 2022. Can anyone explain in simple terms how the short stay system now works please?
There is a planning tool, but that does not help hugely.
Basically, if we went to France, Spain and Portugal for 60 days in May and June (continuous) and then returned home for 60 days, how long could we then travel to Italy and France for starting in September? I think it’s 30 - giving us our 90 day limit. Do we then have to return home until the end of of our 180 days which started on the first day of travel in May? Does a new 180 days limit then begin again in November?

I am sure there’s a simple way of looking at it and I’m over complicating it!

Pete

 

[Corradobrit]

Lou makes a good stab at explaining it.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi. Planning our our European tours for 2022. Can anyone explain in simple terms how the short stay system now works please?
There is a planning tool, but that does not help hugely.
Basically, if we went to France, Spain and Portugal for 60 days in May and June (continuous) and then returned home for 60 days, how long could we then travel to Italy and France for starting in September? I think it’s 30 - giving us our 90 day limit. Do we then have to return home until the end of of our 180 days which started on the first day of travel in May? Does a new 180 days limit then begin again in November?

I am sure there’s a simple way of looking at it and I’m over complicating it!

Pete

That's my take on the regulations. The 180 days starts on the day you 1st arrive in the EU and ends 180 days later. During that period you are allowed to stay, within the EU for 90 days.
I'm not sure if days spent within the non-EU , but affiliated countries count towards these 90 days as I've not seen any Border Posts for the likes of Norway or Switzerland that check Passports.

 

[Barbara]

Hi. Planning our our European tours for 2022. Can anyone explain in simple terms how the short stay system now works please?
There is a planning tool, but that does not help hugely.
Basically, if we went to France, Spain and Portugal for 60 days in May and June (continuous) and then returned home for 60 days, how long could we then travel to Italy and France for starting in September? I think it’s 30 - giving us our 90 day limit. Do we then have to return home until the end of of our 180 days which started on the first day of travel in May? Does a new 180 days limit then begin again in November?

I am sure there’s a simple way of looking at it and I’m over complicating it!

Pete

easy to use calculator

Schengen Calculator - Calculate Your Legal Short-Stay in Europe

Schengen Calculator for Visa-Free visitors and holders of multiple entry visas valid for six months and with 90 days of permitted duration of stay.

www.schengenvisainfo.com

 

[andyinluton]

Hi. Planning our our European tours for 2022. Can anyone explain in simple terms how the short stay system now works please?
There is a planning tool, but that does not help hugely.
Basically, if we went to France, Spain and Portugal for 60 days in May and June (continuous) and then returned home for 60 days, how long could we then travel to Italy and France for starting in September? I think it’s 30 - giving us our 90 day limit. Do we then have to return home until the end of of our 180 days which started on the first day of travel in May? Does a new 180 days limit then begin again in November?


Pete

You are correct.
It’s a rolling 180 days, not a “new batch” of 180 days. So on day 181 the first day of your first trip doesn’t count anymore.

You need to be careful about timings. Make sure to land in France at one minute past midnight & leave one minute before. Swap those round and you’ve lost two days.

 

[Tarquers]

Hi. Planning our our European tours for 2022. Can anyone explain in simple terms how the short stay system now works please?
There is a planning tool, but that does not help hugely.
Basically, if we went to France, Spain and Portugal for 60 days in May and June (continuous) and then returned home for 60 days, how long could we then travel to Italy and France for starting in September? I think it’s 30 - giving us our 90 day limit. Do we then have to return home until the end of of our 180 days which started on the first day of travel in May? Does a new 180 days limit then begin again in November?

I am sure there’s a simple way of looking at it and I’m over complicating it!

Pete

Using your example, you do 60 days, then return to UK for 60 days, you can go back for a further 30 days before needing to return to the UK. Once you have been in the UK for 30 day, you can return to EU for up to 60 days as your rolling total will be dropping off your initial 60 days. Best way to keep track is to count back from your planned return from Italy and count how many days you would have had in the EU in the previous 6 months.

There are options to go to like Cyprus and Croatia rather than return to the UK, or you could apply for a long term visa for France which would mean days in France do not count.

finally if you or your spouse hold an EU passport and you are travelling together, then the 90/180 rules does not apply but good luck explaining this to the border guards in some countries. Even as a British EU resident I got stamped exiting (not entering) Croatia and stamped into Hungary but this never created issues when I next left the Schengen via Germany so who knows how it really works.

 

[Azteccamper]

Thanks for your replies everyone

 

[B J G]

There has been a UK GOV. warning about checking that you get your Passport stamped on entry and especially exit as that is your proof of trip duration.

Seems strange getting stamps in Passport again after years without.

 

[2into1]

There has been a UK GOV. warning about checking that you get your Passport stamped on entry and especially exit as that is your proof of trip duration.

Seems strange getting stamps in Passport again after years without.

I wonder how a Border Guard would prove you've exceeded your permitted stay?
If a stamped passport wins out over any electronic data available, it implies our comings and goings aren't being monitored any more sophisticatedly.
Avoid getting your passport stamped on either entry or exit, and you appear to be home and dry?

 

[B J G]

I wonder how a Border Guard would prove you've exceeded your permitted stay?
If a stamped passport wins out over any electronic data available, it implies our comings and goings aren't being monitored any more sophisticatedly.
Avoid getting your passport stamped on either entry or exit, and you appear to be home and dry?

I think that more to the point would how would you prove that you had complied with the 90 days.
Could be a time consuming process with "Jobs worth"
Must have been cases before Gov. caution issued.

 

[Azteccamper]

I think that more to the point would how would you prove that you had complied with the 90 days.
Could be a time consuming process with "Jobs worth"
Must have been cases before Gov. caution issued.

I suppose you’ll need to keep all ferry / euro-tunnel documentation just in case.
I must be honest it wasn’t something I factored into my retirement plans.

 

[WelshGas]

I suppose you’ll need to keep all ferry / euro-tunnel documentation just in case.
I must be honest it wasn’t something I factored into my retirement plans.

Obviously you weren't adventurous in your plans. There is a whole world outside the EU, and the majority, if not all, have Visa and time limits.
If the 90/180 limit impacts on Tourist revenue within the EU it could change.

 

[Azteccamper]

Obviously you weren't adventurous in your plans. There is a whole world outside the EU, and the majority, if not all, have Visa and time limits.
If the 90/180 limit impacts on Tourist revenue within the EU it could change.

I’ve tried to be as adventurous as I can be considering personal circumstances outside my control unfortunately.

 

[Ting Tong]

We have a 4 EU trips booked this year and I was worried about overstaying so wrote a simple excel which I can send if it helps. What matters is whether you’ve been in the EU for more than 90 days in the 180 days leading up to and including the day you return. We just scraped in by 5 days.

 

[California_Ocean]

I have both a German and a UK passport. When travelling to the UK I used a new UK passport to exit via Munich Airport. The border guard got very excited when he looked through my UK passport and could not find an entry stamp - I would have been detained until they figured out how long I had been in Europe. I explained I was also a German citizen so he asked for my German passport, on showing him that he completely lost interest and I was waved through. My experience of travelling back and forward from the UK are that the checks are real, but not thorough - in Glasgow airport for example there are notices reminding people to get passport stamps if needed - for some reason you could still use the automatic gates with an EU passport. Be very careful and make sure passports are stamped and it's also a good idea to keep old passports for a while after they have been replaced. I have a work colleague who was accused of overstaying a visa in the US even though he had exited over the canadian border to go skiing. His old passport saved him as he had the stamp, but for some reason it hadn`t made it into the computer system. Overstaying your allotted time in a foreign country is no joke, at best they'll just send you home again, at worst you could face a heavy fine and a travel ban to the EU - and it's all at the discretion of the border control in question. The UK has chosen to end freedom of movement to Europe, that has consequences. The other point is that this year ETIAS will be rolled out. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

 

[Azteccamper]

We have a 4 EU trips booked this year and I was worried about overstaying so wrote a simple excel which I can send if it helps. What matters is whether you’ve been in the EU for more than 90 days in the 180 days leading up to and including the day you return. We just scraped in by 5 days.

Very kind of you. I might be back in touch - I think I’ve got it now.

 

[Azteccamper]

I have both a German and a UK passport. When travelling to the UK I used a new UK passport to exit via Munich Airport. The border guard got very excited when he looked through my UK passport and could not find an entry stamp - I would have been detained until they figured out how long I had been in Europe. I explained I was also a German citizen so he asked for my German passport, on showing him that he completely lost interest and I was waved through. My experience of travelling back and forward from the UK are that the checks are real, but not thorough - in Glasgow airport for example there are notices reminding people to get passport stamps if needed - for some reason you could still use the automatic gates with an EU passport. Be very careful and make sure passports are stamped and it's also a good idea to keep old passports for a while after they have been replaced. I have a work colleague who was accused of overstaying a visa in the US even though he had exited over the canadian border to go skiing. His old passport saved him as he had the stamp, but for some reason it hadn`t made it into the computer system. Overstaying your allotted time in a foreign country is no joke, at best they'll just send you home again, at worst you could face a heavy fine and a travel ban to the EU - and it's all at the discretion of the border control in question. The UK has chosen to end freedom of movement to Europe, that has consequences. The other point is that this year ETIAS will be rolled out. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

Thanks for sharing your experience. As you say it’s important to keep records and plan accordingly.

 

[WelshGas]

I have both a German and a UK passport. When travelling to the UK I used a new UK passport to exit via Munich Airport. The border guard got very excited when he looked through my UK passport and could not find an entry stamp - I would have been detained until they figured out how long I had been in Europe. I explained I was also a German citizen so he asked for my German passport, on showing him that he completely lost interest and I was waved through. My experience of travelling back and forward from the UK are that the checks are real, but not thorough - in Glasgow airport for example there are notices reminding people to get passport stamps if needed - for some reason you could still use the automatic gates with an EU passport. Be very careful and make sure passports are stamped and it's also a good idea to keep old passports for a while after they have been replaced. I have a work colleague who was accused of overstaying a visa in the US even though he had exited over the canadian border to go skiing. His old passport saved him as he had the stamp, but for some reason it hadn`t made it into the computer system. Overstaying your allotted time in a foreign country is no joke, at best they'll just send you home again, at worst you could face a heavy fine and a travel ban to the EU - and it's all at the discretion of the border control in question. The UK has chosen to end freedom of movement to Europe, that has consequences. The other point is that this year ETIAS will be rolled out. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

I think you will find that the EU has decided to end Freedom of Movement in Europe for UK citizens. It is within their power, if they so wish, not the UK. We were never a signatory to the Schengen Agreement and it seemed to work OK before.

 

[B J G]

We have a 4 EU trips booked this year and I was worried about overstaying so wrote a simple excel which I can send if it helps. What matters is whether you’ve been in the EU for more than 90 days in the 180 days leading up to and including the day you return. We just scraped in by 5 days.

I was intending to do an Excel but as you've done it can I have a copy please.
'normal' for me is 6 or 7 trips per year.

 

[Azteccamper]

I was intending to do an Excel but as you've done it can I have a copy please.
'normal' for me is 6 or 7 trips per year.

The planner outlined by @Barbara in post #4 is useful too.

 

[Tarquers]

I think you will find that the EU has decided to end Freedom of Movement in Europe for UK citizens. It is within their power, if they so wish, not the UK. We were never a signatory to the Schengen Agreement and it seemed to work OK before.

Surely the U.K. decided to end freedom of movement for U.K. citizens??? If we are being pedantic, we should be factually pedantic.

Schengen entitles non EU citizens to free movement within the Schengen Bloc which is an automatic right for EU members, ie Ireland has freedom of movement despite not being a Schengen member, maybe a minor, but important difference.

 

[WelshGas]

Surely the U.K. decided to end freedom of movement for U.K. citizens??? If we are being pedantic, we should be factually pedantic.

Schengen entitles non EU citizens to free movement within the Schengen Bloc which is an automatic right for EU members, ie Ireland has freedom of movement despite not being a Schengen member, maybe a minor, but important difference.

If you wish to be pedantic, the EU set the rules for U.K. citizens, not the U.K.

How long can EU, EEA and Swiss citizens stay in the UK without a visa?​

From 1 January 2021, the UK implemented a new points-based immigration system.

Under the new system, if you’re an EU, EEA and Swiss citizen, you can continue to come to the UK as a visitor without applying for a visa and in most cases, will be able to stay for up to six months. In addition to tourism and seeing family, you may participate in a wide range of activities, including business-related activities such as meetings, events and conferences.

 

[Jabberwocky]

We have a 4 EU trips booked this year and I was worried about overstaying so wrote a simple excel which I can send if it helps. What matters is whether you’ve been in the EU for more than 90 days in the 180 days leading up to and including the day you return. We just scraped in by 5 days.

Hi, can you please send me a copy of your Excel SS? PM if you need. Thx in advance.

 

[Ting Tong]

Hi, can you please send me a copy of your Excel SS? PM if you need. Thx in advance.

Hi, can you please send me a copy of your Excel SS? PM if you need. Thx in advance.

Hi Rik

It wont let me attach an excel file so pm me your email....same for anyone else that wants it. Cheers

 

[Calimili]

If you wish to be pedantic, the EU set the rules for U.K. citizens, not the U.K.

How long can EU, EEA and Swiss citizens stay in the UK without a visa?​

From 1 January 2021, the UK implemented a new points-based immigration system.

Under the new system, if you’re an EU, EEA and Swiss citizen, you can continue to come to the UK as a visitor without applying for a visa and in most cases, will be able to stay for up to six months. In addition to tourism and seeing family, you may participate in a wide range of activities, including business-related activities such as meetings, events and conferences.

from both UK and EU sides, why would you prevent somebody coming from another economic area, to spend money in your area (but earned in their area) for more than 6 months?
If they don't claim benefits, let them stay and spend money as much as possible!