90 / 180 days in Europe

[Ting Tong]

from both UK and EU sides, why would you prevent somebody coming from another economic area, to spend money in your area (but earned in their area) for more than 6 months?
If they don't claim benefits, let them stay and spend money as much as possible!

I think it’s because they think people are more likely to put down roots and become overstayers if they’re allowed to stay too long. Mrs TT has to travel on a Schengen visa and that’s always been 90 days. Luckily we don’t have the expense and inconvenience of that (yet).

 

[leeb]

Just count back 180 days from each, or any day that you wake up in Schengen. If you've been in Schengen for less than 90 days during that period . all is good ...if it's over 90 days youve blown it. A long stay visitors visa for France is pretty straight forwards to obtain...costs about 100quid...and gives you 180 days in France as and when you like with the 90/180 rule to use elsewhere in Schengen.
Welcome to crappy brexit

 

[Lucinda]

Welcome to the Schengen shuffle! Worth remembering that Croatia, Bulgaria, Montenegro and Albania are all outside the Schengen zone. Other point to note is to check your passport expiry date, as I understand it, you effectively only have 9.5 years from the date of ISSUE, not expire date less 6 months. Having said that, once you get into the Schengen zone, borders are generally completely open and you can just merrily drive from one country to another. So glad I moved to Portugal!

 

[WelshGas]

Welcome to the Schengen shuffle! Worth remembering that Croatia, Bulgaria, Montenegro and Albania are all outside the Schengen zone. Other point to note is to check your passport expiry date, as I understand it, you effectively only have 9.5 years from the date of ISSUE, not expire date less 6 months. Having said that, once you get into the Schengen zone, borders are generally completely open and you can just merrily drive from one country to another. So glad I moved to Portugal!

Virtually every country in the world insists on a minimum 6 months validity on your passport. So nothing new there.

 

[andyinluton]

Virtually every country in the world insists on a minimum 6 months validity on your passport. So nothing new there.

There’s a subtle point you have missed. It’s 9.5 years from date of issue not just 6 months validity.
My passport was renewed early and was valid for 10 years 4 months from date of issue so under current rules will be unacceptable even with 9 months showing until expiry.

 

[peregrinus]

If one half of a couple has an EU passport then my understanding is that none of this Schengen stuff applies to the UK passport spouse as long as they are with the EU dude. (Not sure of the exact definition of couple or spouse)

 

[Tarquers]

If one half of a couple has an EU passport then my understanding is that none of this Schengen stuff applies to the UK passport spouse as long as they are with the EU dude. (Not sure of the exact definition of couple or spouse)

It’s spouse and is based on the fact in EU law that free movement cannot be denied to an EU citizen, and EU citizens cannot be denied from travelling with their spouse if they are resident in the EU. It’s not specifically written into any Brexit related documentation or law. This was tested by an Irish/British couple.

Where this potentially falls over is travelling from the U.K. and getting a stamp on entering France which you would screw the whole thing up. U.K. citizens that are resident in the EU do not get a stamp when entering.

For a serious traveller, some EU countries allow for residency with minimal requirements for living, like Portugal, which would allow unlimited roaming of the EU with your EU spouse as you would be an EU resident. Extreme case, but May suit someone’s circumstances.

 

[WelshGas]

There’s a subtle point you have missed. It’s 9.5 years from date of issue not just 6 months validity.
My passport was renewed early and was valid for 10 years 4 months from date of issue so under current rules will be unacceptable even with 9 months showing until expiry.

It varies, some countries accept 6 months validity others take the view a Passport is only valid for 10yrs from date of issue so any expiry time over 10yrs from date of issue is ignored. So as long as your passport is within 9 yrs and 5 months it is valid for entry. I don't now if days count, in which case it could be 9 yrs 5 months and 28/30 or 31 days depending on which month you travel and whether it is a Leap year or not.
If you can't arrange to have your passport renewed before 9 yrs and 6 months are up, maybe you are not meant for International Travel.

 

[twvallen]

If you are citizen of UK and have Irish ancestry, you are eligible for Irish passport, which gives you freedom of movement in Europe and Switzerland.

 

[RichardH]

I have been advised by someone with a second home there that a long stay tourist visa is available for France (and probably others) which allows free travel throughout Schengen for a year at a cost of £60. I've had a look at the French visa web-site, which seems to confirm this, but I haven't gone on to complete the process yet. Maybe there will be pit-falls that I haven't yet reached. Has anyone else tried this route?

 

[ejmoore]

If you are citizen of UK and have Irish ancestry, you are eligible for Irish passport, which gives you freedom of movement in Europe and Switzerland.

I read somewhere recently that the freedom of movement for longer than 90 days does not include the spouse of someone with an Irish passport as Ireland is not actually part of Schengen, just allowed. My spouse got an Irish passport but we haven't tested this out yet.

 

[Parkinjm]

I have been advised by someone with a second home there that a long stay tourist visa is available for France (and probably others) which allows free travel throughout Schengen for a year at a cost of £60. I've had a look at the French visa web-site, which seems to confirm this, but I haven't gone on to complete the process yet. Maybe there will be pit-falls that I haven't yet reached. Has anyone else tried this route?

Doesnt apply in Spain. It’s 90 days (across Spain and all the Schengen area) or a non lucrative visa which permits non working residency - but you need a high income and become a tax resident of Spain with limitations on time spent outside Spain. Not suitable unless you won’t to go and live there.

 

[Tarquers]

I read somewhere recently that the freedom of movement for longer than 90 days does not include the spouse of someone with an Irish passport as Ireland is not actually part of Schengen, just allowed. My spouse got an Irish passport but we haven't tested this out yet.

Had to read this a few times and still not sure I have got your point, but it does not matter that Ireland is not in Schengen, it’s in the EU, so free movement rules apply. Schengen only applies to non-EU citizens wanting to visit the EU. If you live in the U.K. you are right, it won’t help you.

 

[Billylou]

My wife is Irish I’m British. I recently contacted the Europe Direct Contact Centre regarding our rights when travelling in Europe. The response below might shed some light onto this discussion. Needless to say I’m no expert.


Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

A citizen of the UK does not, in principle, require a visa to travel for a short stay of no more than 90 days within any 180-day period in the Schengen area.

The fact that you reside with your Irish wife the UK is, on its own, not sufficient to waive the limits of the 90/180-days rule if you intend to travel on your own to a Schengen Member State.

However, if you are travelling with your wife to a Schengen country, or joining her in a Schengen country, the 90/180 days limitation does not apply. Accordingly, any stays in the Schengen area together with her will not be taken into account when you travel again on your own. Please be aware, however, that in this case you might need to have documentation to show when you were travelling with her and when you were not.

For further information, we recommend that you contact the authorities of the country you would like to travel to: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/embassies/index_en.htm

You can also find additional information here: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/brexit-travel-documents/index_en.htm

If you wish to remain in a given country for more than 3 months, both you and your wife may need to register your residence: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/index_en.htm

Please note that as Ireland is not part of the Schengen area and because your wife is an Irish citizen, this may not apply if you wish to travel together to Ireland.

For information on the Common Travel Area between Ireland and the UK, please see: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/...n_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_uk.html

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.

 

[Tarquers]

My wife is Irish I’m British. I recently contacted the Europe Direct Contact Centre regarding our rights when travelling in Europe. The response below might shed some light onto this discussion. Needless to say I’m no expert.


Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

A citizen of the UK does not, in principle, require a visa to travel for a short stay of no more than 90 days within any 180-day period in the Schengen area.

The fact that you reside with your Irish wife the UK is, on its own, not sufficient to waive the limits of the 90/180-days rule if you intend to travel on your own to a Schengen Member State.

However, if you are travelling with your wife to a Schengen country, or joining her in a Schengen country, the 90/180 days limitation does not apply. Accordingly, any stays in the Schengen area together with her will not be taken into account when you travel again on your own. Please be aware, however, that in this case you might need to have documentation to show when you were travelling with her and when you were not.

For further information, we recommend that you contact the authorities of the country you would like to travel to: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/embassies/index_en.htm

You can also find additional information here: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/brexit-travel-documents/index_en.htm

If you wish to remain in a given country for more than 3 months, both you and your wife may need to register your residence: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/index_en.htm

Please note that as Ireland is not part of the Schengen area and because your wife is an Irish citizen, this may not apply if you wish to travel together to Ireland.

For information on the Common Travel Area between Ireland and the UK, please see: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/...n_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_uk.html

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.

I can only imagine the conversation you would have trying to leave France after 100 days in EU with your wife trying to argue this point, but great to see additional confirmation of the rules.

 

[Billylou]

I can only imagine the conversation you would have trying to leave France after 100 days in EU with your wife trying to argue this point, but great to see additional confirmation of the rules.

You are absolutely right. I’m looking forward to hearing about someone else's experience.

Interestingly we left Portugal before Xmas after spending approximately 80 days away and I did ask the customs official if he was aware of the process had we overstayed. He said he was and also advised us how to go about getting a permit should we wish to stay for longer than 90 days in the future. There’s hope.

 

[Tarquers]

Found an app on the apple App Store called Schengen that tracks dates. I put in future dates to see how well it predicts and found that it only worked when you closed and opened the app. Worth a look for anyone wanting an easy option.

 

[calibusje]

I love coming to the UK so much that I bought an international passport for the four of us; mandatory now after your brexit which no one forced you to, chosen by yourself and with consequences for all parties. It was a show from both sides and I am happy it is done. It's good that there is a nice agreement with the EU as a third country (exemption of import duties on UK origin goods & complying with EU regulations to import goods, quite logical; and vice versa). Now, the Schengen Agreement has always been for free movement of people, ie no border controls for passports or other identity documents. The UK was already a special one back then (never a member of that agreement) and now we too need an international passport. Oh, if that's what it takes, it is what it is. Not much has changed: we will continue visiting and exploring your lovely country, makes no difference for us.
Greetings from Belgium
Calibusje