ABS Light On - They are kidding, right?

[mountainman]

Just put my 2011 Cali into the VW dealer to sort the ABS light problem. I was thinking, it' a sensor, probably be just a few quid. I got a call from VW saying it wasn't a sensor but a break in the wiring between the rear sensors and the ECU. They said they needed to take the kitchen units apart so they could get at the inspection hatches. I said, who puts inspection hatches under a kitchen unit? and anyway, why would a wire suddenly break in a benign environment like that? VW then came back and said it wasn't under the kitchen, it was between the Kitchen and the ECU. I asked if the loom went through the passenger seat because that moves about and has caused problems in the past. They said maybe. Then they came back and said they had found the fault in the engine bay, it was coursed by corrosion. They corrected the fault but the light was still on. Then they discovered that a sensor had failed and they needed to replace that. The total cost so far: Initial diagnostics £195.00; further diagnostics £312.50; an electrical connection £6.40; some wire £10.00; ABS sensor £79.40; Labour £126.30. Total cost £729.60 + VAT = £875.52. This for a broken wire and an ABS sensor. Are they having a laugh?

 

[Elmo3]

Yes. Jesters I’m afraid. A good auto electrician would have that diagnosed and sorted in no time and for a fraction of that cost. As an aside and as an owner of an ‘older’ Cali myself, a main dealer is the last place I’d be taking it. The sensor is a sub £20 part and an easy DIY job.

 

[mountainman]

Indeed. My local VW specialist couldn't take the van in for two weeks and my son is taking it on holiday tomorrow., so regrettably I chose the main dealer. That is the last time. ca. £600 for diagnosis is just a joke. It feels like extorsion, and because you can't get the vehicle back without paying the bill, followed by blackmail.

 

[Steve1]

Just put my 2011 Cali into the VW dealer to sort the ABS light problem. I was thinking, it' a sensor, probably be just a few quid. I got a call from VW saying it wasn't a sensor but a break in the wiring between the rear sensors and the ECU. They said they needed to take the kitchen units apart so they could get at the inspection hatches. I said, who puts inspection hatches under a kitchen unit? and anyway, why would a wire suddenly break in a benign environment like that? VW then came back and said it wasn't under the kitchen, it was between the Kitchen and the ECU. I asked if the loom went through the passenger seat because that moves about and has caused problems in the past. They said maybe. Then they came back and said they had found the fault in the engine bay, it was coursed by corrosion. They corrected the fault but the light was still on. Then they discovered that a sensor had failed and they needed to replace that. The total cost so far: Initial diagnostics £195.00; further diagnostics £312.50; an electrical connection £6.40; some wire £10.00; ABS sensor £79.40; Labour £126.30. Total cost £729.60 + VAT = £875.52. This for a broken wire and an ABS sensor. Are they having a laugh?

Seems very suspicious that the wire would break and the sensor break both at exactly the same time. If they "fixed" the wire, but then the sensor was still an error, sounds like it was the sensor all along and badly diagnosed!

 

[B J G]

My local Dealer said that there would be a £135 diagnostic charge despite me having an obviously split EGR pipe that needed replacing.
No matter how often I said there's no need for a diagnostic as it's the pipe and can send a photo if required there was no change.
Fortunately VW Assist came out and did it with no charges.

Also would have been a week wait or a month if courtesy vehicle required, which it was as they wanted two days to change the pipe?

 

[ArunAlec]

Just put my 2011 Cali into the VW dealer to sort the ABS light problem. I was thinking, it' a sensor, probably be just a few quid. I got a call from VW saying it wasn't a sensor but a break in the wiring between the rear sensors and the ECU. They said they needed to take the kitchen units apart so they could get at the inspection hatches. I said, who puts inspection hatches under a kitchen unit? and anyway, why would a wire suddenly break in a benign environment like that? VW then came back and said it wasn't under the kitchen, it was between the Kitchen and the ECU. I asked if the loom went through the passenger seat because that moves about and has caused problems in the past. They said maybe. Then they came back and said they had found the fault in the engine bay, it was coursed by corrosion. They corrected the fault but the light was still on. Then they discovered that a sensor had failed and they needed to replace that. The total cost so far: Initial diagnostics £195.00; further diagnostics £312.50; an electrical connection £6.40; some wire £10.00; ABS sensor £79.40; Labour £126.30. Total cost £729.60 + VAT = £875.52. This for a broken wire and an ABS sensor. Are they having a laugh?

I’m pretty sure that there’s a section in the “ Service Training Manual” that says “when reporting back to the customer tell them that the kitchen needs to be removed (whatever the problem). Then, give them a day or two to digest and get depressed, then call them with the ”good news” that the problem can be fixed without the mega cost of the kitchen removal…… Customer now over the moon that they don’t have sell the house!

 

[Ozzy Pete]

52

Just put my 2011 Cali into the VW dealer to sort the ABS light problem. I was thinking, it' a sensor, probably be just a few quid. I got a call from VW saying it wasn't a sensor but a break in the wiring between the rear sensors and the ECU. They said they needed to take the kitchen units apart so they could get at the inspection hatches. I said, who puts inspection hatches under a kitchen unit? and anyway, why would a wire suddenly break in a benign environment like that? VW then came back and said it wasn't under the kitchen, it was between the Kitchen and the ECU. I asked if the loom went through the passenger seat because that moves about and has caused problems in the past. They said maybe. Then they came back and said they had found the fault in the engine bay, it was coursed by corrosion. They corrected the fault but the light was still on. Then they discovered that a sensor had failed and they needed to replace that. The total cost so far: Initial diagnostics £195.00; further diagnostics £312.50; an electrical connection £6.40; some wire £10.00; ABS sensor £79.40; Labour £126.30. Total cost £729.60 + VAT = £875.52. This for a broken wire and an ABS sensor. Are they having a laugh?

Was it just the ABS light or a variety of dash lights.?
This happened twice to me an both times it’s been a rear ABS wheel sensor. Less than £10 each off eBay. If you can change a wheel you can change an ABS sensor. Whether you pay £79.40 or £10 they are all pretty much the same. I keep a couple of spares for the next time it happens.

 

[mountainman]

I would have done a DIY sensor replacement if I'd had the time but in reality it wouldn't have solved the break in the wiring. Apparently, there was a parted wire in the ECU compartment under the battery. They say the two end of the wire were just laying there apart, side by side. God knows how that happens. The garage suspected mice. Do mice sever copper? When they reconnected the break, then a sensor failure was detected and they replaced the sensor. Bit of a coincidence, a sensor failure and a wire break at the same time?

 

[Keith Smith]

Mice can eat through copper wire unfortunately.

 

[Perfectos]

Write an email to the Dealer and explain that you don’t feel the service was a good experience, the fact they have charged for work that did not need doing if they had followed best reactive and hooked up their equipment to diagnose a sensor fault, would have sorted the issue, ask the dealer to look at the process and charges that were made !

should the £195 + additional investigation charge not be refunded if you paid for remedial works at the dealers ?
How can a dealer make an assessment without carrying out an investigation?
in this case the investigation started in the wrong place , which was there decision (incorrect) the second investigation purportedly found an issue (ask for photos of the break in the wire)
Why would Anyone with any skill, randomly start with by looking at a wiring loom in a place which is unlikely to be the issue , particularly when a sensor fault would show up on a Scan ?
the cost for sundry parts is a made up figure because they think they can get away with it !
How did you pay for the works ? Credit card ?

see below ; reasonable care and skill - I think there was a lack of skill in diagnosis that they charged twice !
initail diagnosis was wrong , second diagnosis was wrong , why should you pay “an expert” to wrongly diagnose a simple issue ?

the key issue is you went to VW because they are “experts” those experts failed to mitigate the costs by lack of expertise In respect of the diagnosis and works carried out, which if they had diagnosed the problem correctly in the first place they would have limited the costs to yourselves.
Plenty on this forum have the experience to diagnose and correct the fault at minimal cost, why has the dealer “expert” not got those skills or has not applied the. Correctly?

 

[Perfectos]

When you take your vehicle to a garage for a routine service or for faults to be repaired you are making a legally binding contract, which is covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This law gives you rights and remedies against the trader if the service you receive is below the standard you are entitled to expect and if any parts fitted as part of the service or repair fail to meet your expectations, possibly because they are faulty.
Service (covers vehicle repairs and routine servicing); key rights:

• the service must be carried out with reasonable care and skill. A trader must carry out the service to the same or similar standard to that which is considered acceptable within the vehicle repair industry
• information about a trader or service is legally binding. Anything said or written down by a trader (or someone acting on their behalf) about themselves or the service forms part of the contract. Any information you take into consideration before you agree the contract or if you make a decision about the service after the contract is made will also form part of the contract
• reasonable price to be paid for a service. You are required to pay only a 'reasonable' price for the service that a trader provides unless the price (or the way in which the price is worked out) is fixed as part of the contract
• the service must be carried out within a reasonable time. Sometimes the contract will fix the time that a service must be completed by. If the time has not been fixed then the service must be completed 'within a reasonable time'

Service (covers vehicle repairs and routine servicing); key remedies:

• right to repeat performance. If you are dissatisfied with the way your vehicle has been repaired or serviced (because it has not been carried out with reasonable care and skill or the trader failed to complete the work in line with information they gave you beforehand) then they must perform the service again - for example, carry out a further repair. This should be carried out within a reasonable time, without significant inconvenience and at no cost to you
• right to a price reduction. If repeat performance of the repair or service fails to resolve the problem (perhaps it is impossible or it cannot be carried out within a reasonable time or without causing you significant inconvenience) then you are entitled to a price reduction, which can be as much as a full refund

See 'Supply of services: your consumer rights' for more information.
Goods, such as parts, oil or accessories, supplied during the repair or service; key rights:

• the trader must have the right to supply the goods to you. If they did not, perhaps they did not actually own them and could not therefore sell them to you. If that is the case then you have a legal remedy
• the goods must be of satisfactory quality. The description, price, condition of the goods, fitness for purpose, appearance and finish, safety, durability and freedom from minor defects are all important factors when considering quality. Public statements, such as those in advertising or on labelling, made by the trader, the producer or their representative about the goods must be accurate and can also be taken into account when deciding if the goods are of satisfactory quality
• if you make a trader aware that you want the goods to be fit for a particular purpose, even if it is something that they are not usually supplied for, then you have the right to expect they are fit for that purpose
• you have the right to expect that the goods are as described. For example, if a part is described as being made by a particular manufacturer, that is what should be supplied
• if you see or examine a sample, then the goods must match the sample. For example, if you saw a sample tyre, then the tyres fitted to your vehicle must match
• if you see or examine a model then the goods must match the model

Goods, such as parts, oil or accessories, supplied during the repair or service; key remedies:

• short term right to reject the goods and obtain a full refund
• right to a repair or replacement
• right to a price reduction or a final right to reject the goods

The 'Sale and supply of goods: your consumer rights' guide gives more information.
If you pay for the vehicle repair or service by credit card and if the work costs more than £100 but less than £30,000, you are protected by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 75 of the Act makes the card provider as responsible as the trader for a breach of contract or a misrepresentation. You are entitled to take action against the trader, the card provider or both. This does not apply to charge cards or debit cards.
If you use a debit card to pay for the vehicle repair or service or if you use a credit card and the price of the work is less that £100 (your rights under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply) you may be able to take advantage of the chargeback scheme. Chargeback is the term used by card providers for reclaiming a card payment from the trader's bank. If you can provide evidence of a breach of contract - for example, if the repair is substandard or the trader has ceased trading - you can ask your card provider to attempt to recover the payment. Check with your card provider as to how the scheme rules apply to your card and what the time limit is for making a claim.
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 prohibit commercial practices that are unfair to consumers. If a trader misleads you (for example, charging you for work it has not done, fitting inferior parts when you only agreed to have a particular manufacturer's parts, or fitting second-hand parts and claiming they are new) or engages in aggressive commercial practices, they may be in breach of the Regulations. You should report unfair practices to the Citizens Advice consumer service for referral to trading standards.
If you enter a contract because a trader misled you or because the trader used an aggressive commercial practice, the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 give you rights to redress: the right to unwind the contract, the right to a discount and the right to damages. The 'Misleading and aggressive practices: rights to redress' guide gives more information.
Under the Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012, which were amended by the Payment Services Regulations 2017, traders are banned from imposing surcharges on consumers for using the following payment methods:

• credit, debit or charge cards
• e-payment services such as Paypal
• Apple pay, Android pay or other similar payment methods

 

[Lambeth Cali]

When my £18 tap water pump broke, SMG Croydon said they needed to remove the exterior panels of the van to get at it. Quoted £1000!
Went to another dealer. They charged £600 and failed to clip it in properly. I did that myself. Never ever again.

Why people consider warranty extensions is beyond me.

THEY ARE ALL TERRIBLE.

 

[Perfectos]

What if things go wrong?

THE VEHICLE IS NOT REPAIRED PROPERLY

If a fault is not correctly diagnosed or is not properly repaired (in other words, the work has not been carried out with reasonable care and skill) you are entitled to ask the trader to carry it out again. This repeat performance should be carried out within a reasonable time, without significant inconvenience and at no cost to you. If the fault is still apparent you may be entitled to a price reduction (the difference between the contract price and the value of the work performed), which may be as much as a full refund if you have had no benefit from the work at all.

The 'Supply of services: what to do if things go wrong' guide sets out the practical steps you can take when complaining to the trader.

 

[mountainman]

Many thanks for all the above contributions. I am certainly going to follow this up. ca. £500 to find a broken wire by a dealer who deals with T5s day in day out is unacceptable in my view. That 's indeed why one goes to a specialist dealer, because they are supposed to be specialists! I get the idea that I was paying a trainee for 6-7hrs worth of wild stabbing in the dark. On top of all this........I only went to the VW dealer because they were the only garage who could fix the ABS problem before my son borrowed the van to go on holiday with his wife and 20month old daughter. They loaded up the van, went to the supermarket to get the food shop prior to heading off on holiday. They were finally ready to start their holiday and turned the ignition key. All the lights on the dash went out and then nothing. I got a call from a Glasgow Lidl car park and thankfully, still fuming from VW incompetence, I remembered they had finally traced the ABS fault to under the battery. So I assumed they'd forgotten to tighten up the battery terminals. Both terminal nuts loose, so thankfully easily fixed and off they went. Had a great time.