Anyone replaced the under-seat battery with this 150AH KS-Energy Lithium?

[a892374923874]

@a892374923874 did you ever end up replacing the factory EHU AGM charger in your beach?

No, I’d love to but haven’t been brave enough to pull that whole side trim to bits to find it. If anyone has done so then some photos and explanation would be fantastic!

 

[stim]

No, I’d love to but haven’t been brave enough to pull that whole side trim to bits to find it. If anyone has done so then some photos and explanation would be fantastic!

This article on the KS-energy website is interesting: https://www.ksenergy.co.uk/lead-replacement/

And I also found this one on another thread somewhere: https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/can-i-charge-a-lithium-battery-with-a-normal-sla-charger/

Both say that a normal AGM charger can work fine with a lithium battery as long as it does not have a de-sulfate mode. I have no idea how to find out whether the T6.1 charger has this though.

 

[Kayleigh]

This article on the KS-energy website is interesting: https://www.ksenergy.co.uk/lead-replacement/

And I also found this one on another thread somewhere: https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/can-i-charge-a-lithium-battery-with-a-normal-sla-charger/

Both say that a normal AGM charger can work fine with a lithium battery as long as it does not have a de-sulfate mode. I have no idea how to find out whether the T6.1 charger has this though.

Interesting article from KS Energy… this is their comment about desulphurisation. I wonder if this applies to a T6/T6.1

“Some very old chargers may have been designed with a fast charge and/or a desulphurisation mode sometimes referred to a rejuvenation setting. It is important to ensure these settings are never used since this could result in damage over time to the battery.”

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Is nobody worried about lithium batteries catching fire in your pride and joy?
Surely warranties and even insurance could be out the window?

 

[Kayleigh]

Is nobody worried about lithium batteries catching fire in your pride and joy?
Surely warranties and even insurance could be out the window?

When referring to lithium batteries for use as leisure batteries, most would only consider a particular battery chemistry, that being LiFePO4. These are a pretty stable technology and unlikely to catch fire.
Battery fires that you may see in the news (e-scooters, electric cars etc) are normally Li-Ion, which is a more volatile chemistry.

 

[pluc99]

This article on the KS-energy website is interesting: https://www.ksenergy.co.uk/lead-replacement/

And I also found this one on another thread somewhere: https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/can-i-charge-a-lithium-battery-with-a-normal-sla-charger/

Both say that a normal AGM charger can work fine with a lithium battery as long as it does not have a de-sulfate mode. I have no idea how to find out whether the T6.1 charger has this though.

Given that you're also in Switzerland you should have a look at these guys: CaliSolar.ch I spoke to them at their booth at the Caravan Salon in Bern just a few weeks ago and they seem to have a pretty solid solution. I won't do anything until my leisure AGMs need replacing (hopefully not for a few years) but going LiFePo4 seems the logical way to go at present. They install the German Votronic VCC 1212-30 booster between the starter and LiFePo4 leisure to handle charging.

I wouldn't attempt a DIY installation for something that could have warranty and/or insurance implications if things went horribly wrong.

 

[stim]

Given that you're also in Switzerland you should have a look at these guys: CaliSolar.ch I spoke to them at their booth at the Caravan Salon in Bern just a few weeks ago and they seem to have a pretty solid solution. I won't do anything until my leisure AGMs need replacing (hopefully not for a few years) but going LiFePo4 seems the logical way to go at present. They install the German Votronic VCC 1212-30 booster between the starter and LiFePo4 leisure to handle charging.

I wouldn't attempt a DIY installation for something that could have warranty and/or insurance implications if things went horribly wrong.

Yes, I know these guys, I have done quite a lot of research so far! I find their system is pretty expensive and I don't think their battery has a built-in heater, which means no solar charging below 0 degrees when it is sunny, which would be quite often for me in winter. Quite interested to know what else you discussed with them. Did you talk about the EHU built-in charger and whether it works fine with the Lithium battery?

Something else that might interest you (and also others trying to find out about upgrading to lithium on a T6.1)...I had a catalog from my local AMAG (the official VW dealer in Switzerland) that had a 100Ah LiFePo4 battery (with heater, I think) upgrade with the same Voltronic charger for "only" 1750chf. This surprised me a lot since AMAG usually rip you off something proper. Anway, I emailed them because I was convinced it could not be correct. Below is their reply in German and google translated to English:


The battery is our own, which we have manufactured for assembly and use in California.
A charging booster from Votronic is installed
Normally the isolating relay is removed. For the T6.1, the software 0503 must be installed on the KFG (i think KFG just means the van).
The original charger is not replaced, just a pin is connected in a different location (talking about the EHU charger here).
The voltage and current work on the display, but the capacity is often incorrect. But we have our own “solarpeak” Bluetooth app
There is too little space for a Victron charging booster. In principle, you can also use a Victron charging booster. (I asked if they could use a victron booster instead).

Original in German:

Die Batterie ist unsere eigene, welche wir für die Montage und Verwendung im California herstellen lassen.
Es wird ein Ladebooster von Votronic eingebaut
Normalerweise wird das Trennrelais ausgebaut. Beim T6.1 muss die Software 0503 auf dem KFG installiert werden
Das originale Ladegerät wird nicht ersetzt, lediglich ein Pin wir an einem anderen Ort angeschlossen
Die Spannung und der Strom funtkioniert auf der Anzeige, bei der Kapazität stimmt es oft nicht. Wir haben aber eine eigene «solarpeak» Bluetooth App
Der Platz für einen Victron Ladebooster ist zu knapp. Grundsätzlich können Sie aber auch einen Victron Ladebooster verwenden.

Further research on "Solar peak" turned up this site and so this must be the battery: https://solarpeak.ch/Solarpeak-LiFePo4-128V-100Ah-200A-BMS-winter

It is also interesting to note that they do NOT change the EHU charger, just change a pin (no idea what this means). They also need to change the software, but it is not clear why. This was quite interesting for me and is the first time I have had some solid info from a VW approved source.

 

[a892374923874]

This article on the KS-energy website is interesting: https://www.ksenergy.co.uk/lead-replacement/

And I also found this one on another thread somewhere: https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/can-i-charge-a-lithium-battery-with-a-normal-sla-charger/

Both say that a normal AGM charger can work fine with a lithium battery as long as it does not have a de-sulfate mode. I have no idea how to find out whether the T6.1 charger has this though.

I use the existing mains charger with the KS energy battery. I don’t need to use it very often and when I do I keep an eye on the voltage and manually switch it off as it approaches full charge. If I don’t switch it off it hits the upper limit of the bms at 14.7v which then disables any further charging. It isn’t good for the battery to get to 14.7.

 

[a892374923874]

Insurance
I told my insurer (LV) that the van had a lithium battery, solar panels, and a replacement charger. And a 6kg underslung lpg tank. They said that’s fine, no issues or extra premium, and the extra kit is also covered. I’ve not yet had to make a claim.

Warranty
I did have an issue with one of the 12v led lights in the living area which runs from the leisure battery. It failed. No issues at the dealer and it was replaced under warranty.

 

[pluc99]

Yes, I know these guys, I have done quite a lot of research so far! I find their system is pretty expensive and I don't think their battery has a built-in heater, which means no solar charging below 0 degrees when it is sunny, which would be quite often for me in winter. Quite interested to know what else you discussed with them. Did you talk about the EHU built-in charger and whether it works fine with the Lithium battery?

Something else that might interest you (and also others trying to find out about upgrading to lithium on a T6.1)...I had a catalog from my local AMAG (the official VW dealer in Switzerland) that had a 100Ah LiFePo4 battery (with heater, I think) upgrade with the same Voltronic charger for "only" 1750chf. This surprised me a lot since AMAG usually rip you off something proper. Anway, I emailed them because I was convinced it could not be correct. Below is their reply in German and google translated to English:


The battery is our own, which we have manufactured for assembly and use in California.
A charging booster from Votronic is installed
Normally the isolating relay is removed. For the T6.1, the software 0503 must be installed on the KFG (i think KFG just means the van).
The original charger is not replaced, just a pin is connected in a different location (talking about the EHU charger here).
The voltage and current work on the display, but the capacity is often incorrect. But we have our own “solarpeak” Bluetooth app
There is too little space for a Victron charging booster. In principle, you can also use a Victron charging booster. (I asked if they could use a victron booster instead).

Original in German:

Die Batterie ist unsere eigene, welche wir für die Montage und Verwendung im California herstellen lassen.
Es wird ein Ladebooster von Votronic eingebaut
Normalerweise wird das Trennrelais ausgebaut. Beim T6.1 muss die Software 0503 auf dem KFG installiert werden
Das originale Ladegerät wird nicht ersetzt, lediglich ein Pin wir an einem anderen Ort angeschlossen
Die Spannung und der Strom funtkioniert auf der Anzeige, bei der Kapazität stimmt es oft nicht. Wir haben aber eine eigene «solarpeak» Bluetooth App
Der Platz für einen Victron Ladebooster ist zu knapp. Grundsätzlich können Sie aber auch einen Victron Ladebooster verwenden.

Further research on "Solar peak" turned up this site and so this must be the battery: https://solarpeak.ch/Solarpeak-LiFePo4-128V-100Ah-200A-BMS-winter

It is also interesting to note that they do NOT change the EHU charger, just change a pin (no idea what this means). They also need to change the software, but it is not clear why. This was quite interesting for me and is the first time I have had some solid info from a VW approved source.

I didn't want to get roped into a sales pitch with them since I'm not going to consider changing the battery for another few years, so I just asked superficial questions and stayed away from asking about price. I figure by the time I get serious there may be other options available.

I'm not certain, but from the context I think KFG is referring to the control panel and 0503 to the software version. I'm guessing that changing the pin placement on the EHU charger configures to a LiFePO4 battery.

 

[yossarian]

KFG most likely refers to J608 - the unit that controls the lights, senses the buttons and controls and monitors the waterpump and reads the battery sensors via a LIN bus.

 

[stim]

I didn't want to get roped into a sales pitch with them since I'm not going to consider changing the battery for another few years, so I just asked superficial questions and stayed away from asking about price. I figure by the time I get serious there may be other options available.

I'm not certain, but from the context I think KFG is referring to the control panel and 0503 to the software version. I'm guessing that changing the pin placement on the EHU charger configures to a LiFePO4 battery.

From the context, I would agree but I asked a Swiss German native speaker and they said KFG basically means the car.

KFG most likely refers to J608 - the unit that controls the lights, senses the buttons and controls and monitors the waterpump and reads the battery sensors via a LIN bus.

View attachment 116320

Interesting, I was going to ask if anyone knew what that was. Where is this picture from? Guidance for dealers? Is this something only VW can install? I am curious what it actually enables and why some non VW affiliated companies seem (or claim) to be able to upgrade the van to lithium presumably without this software change.

 

[Kayleigh]

Warranty
I did have an issue with one of the 12v led lights in the living area which runs from the leisure battery. It failed. No issues at the dealer and it was replaced under warranty.

Did you attribute the faulty LED light to the lithium battery?

 

[a892374923874]

Did you attribute the faulty LED light to the lithium battery?

No, not at all. The faulty lamp was nothing to do with the battery, but VW could have been awkward and said that the lamp was downstream of non-standard electrics. But they didn't.