Battery failure. Engine and leisure

[Rick and Dylandog]

Our vw ocean Van is under two years old and was found with engine and leisure battery flat. So flat the electronic opening of the doors was not operable. The RAC got us mobile and the vw garage informs me that both engine and leisure batteries need replacing as they won’t accept charge. Yes the van was left for about 4 weeks in a garage but surely the leisure batteries should be ok? Have others has this experience. I am not a engineer but I find it difficult to believe the leisure battery needs replacing so soon. I am looking for advice

 

[andyinluton]

I would have thought that a condition/recharge cycle on a CTEK charger would bring them back to life.

However if the garage will replace them under warranty let them, I would be more concerned as to how they got that flat.

 

[WelshGas]

Our vw ocean Van is under two years old and was found with engine and leisure battery flat. So flat the electronic opening of the doors was not operable. The RAC got us mobile and the vw garage informs me that both engine and leisure batteries need replacing as they won’t accept charge. Yes the van was left for about 4 weeks in a garage but surely the leisure batteries should be ok? Have others has this experience. I am not an engineer but I find it difficult to believe the leisure battery needs replacing so soon. I am looking for advice

Both Leisure and Engine batteries should last for 4 weeks if in reasonable condition. I regularly leave mine for 5/6weeks at Heathrow and it has always started and fired up the Parking Heater in the winter.
Was anything plugged into any of the 12v sockets?
Do you have a dash cam on whilst parked up?
Have the batteries ever been low on voltage before?
Was the Indicator left on, L or R as that leaves the sidelights On?
As said above, if they are to be replaced under warranty that is good, but you need to determine why they couldn’t last 4 weeks with everything switched off?

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Our leisure batteries were replaced after 2 years and 364 days. Yes One day before the warranty ran out.
I noticed that the batteries were running down at the rate of about 10% a day.
You have to make sure that the batteries are charged at least every month when the van isn’t being used much.
I make sure now that they don’t run down below 50% before recharging.

 

[B J G]

I would have thought that a condition/recharge cycle on a CTEK charger would bring them back to life.

However if the garage will replace them under warranty let them, I would be more concerned as to how they got that flat.

My past experience with VW relating to battery failure was that VW insist on the dealer garage doing a full charge attempt for 24 hours before they will provide a warranty replacement authorisation.

Very odd to have a 3 battery failure.

 

[Rick and Dylandog]

Thanks. They feel it is not a warranty issue. Agree that three battery failure is odd very odd. If the batteries won’t take charge isn’t that a warranty issue? Apparently not.

 

[B J G]

Thanks. They feel it is not a warranty issue. Agree that three battery failure is odd very odd. If the batteries won’t take charge isn’t that a warranty issue? Apparently not.

It was on my wife's EOS a few years ago. it failed though when out shopping and return to carpark to find completely dead. No prior warning. Took 3 day process for VW to authorise despite being obviously dead.
Daughter got her Ford Focus battery replaced under warranty as Stop/Start gave problems.
Batteries have 3 years minimum warranty but must be a proven fault.

If deemed due to lack of maintenance or regular vehicle use to fully charge then it will get rejected as a warranty issue.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks. They feel it is not a warranty issue. Agree that three battery failure is odd very odd. If the batteries won’t take charge isn’t that a warranty issue? Apparently not.

All depends, I suppose, what the cause of the failure is?

 

[Alan Andrews]

All depends, I suppose, what the cause of the failure is?

Up to 3 years ago, we also had issues with battery charge levels. We had to plug in the EHU every month to maintain a charge. Issues like the alarm sounding and doors not opening were symptoms.

I then invested in a solar kit with controller that charges both leisure batteries and engine battery. I have not need to plug in to EHU on the drive since.

Also days away at sites with EHU not an issue.

I would recommend a solar kit.

 

[yossarian]

If you have an electrical fault it should only run only one bus flat -- leisure or starter.

The T 6.1 (which I presume you have -- you might edit your profile to improve the quality of assistance) will only charge the batteries to 80% unless you manually intervene by selecting max charge on the camping control panel and driving for two hours or more or plugging in th ehu.

If you have parked up for a substantial time with partially charged batteries the batteries will sulphate. Heavily sulphated batteries cannot be recovered. A layer of insoluble non-conductive lead sulphate covers the plates.

Suggestion: post detailed charge and park up history. Have you used EHU? Do you have solar? does your solar charge both busses? Were you parked up regularly? Did you use max charge beforehand? Have you had any inadvertent deep discharges? etc etc. This will help us gauge your battery state of health and potentially provide advice to prevent reoccurence.

It's also possible that one bus has recoverable battery(ies) and that VW has given you poor advice. What voltage and state of charge (bar graph) did your control panel indicate?

Another mode of failure of your starter battery that would fit these symptoms is a shorted cell on your starter battery. If so this would be almost certainly be a manufacturing or handling fault, both definitely claimable under warranty.

Summary:

• If all three batteries are faulty the cause is likely sulphation and very likely improper end user handling.
• If the starter battery is faulty but performs 'normally' at 10.7V it has a shorted cell most likely due to a manufacturing or (volkswagen) handling fault.
• If the starter battery is sulphated (won't take a charge) likely a parasitic load has flattened it. It might be recoverable with a good charger. Warranty claim is iffy -- relies on some electrical fault on the van being the underlying cause.

Another complication is that a shorted cell on a battery immediately results in an overcharge on the 5 remaining cells. So diagnosis is complicated and relies on knowledge that's pretty archaic.

 

[Californication69]

Up to 3 years ago, we also had issues with battery charge levels. We had to plug in the EHU every month to maintain a charge. Issues like the alarm sounding and doors not opening were symptoms.

I then invested in a solar kit with controller that charges both leisure batteries and engine battery. I have not need to plug in to EHU on the drive since.

Also days away at sites with EHU not an issue.

I would recommend a solar kit.

Do you have a dashcam ?
I’m currently investigating why my batteries do not fully charge for 10 days whilst sat on my driveway in direct sunlight, with no shade for 14 hours a day.
Only fridge on #4 and a dashcam plugged in. TIA

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I often leave my California parked for months. I don’t charge the van once a month or anything like it. Maybe twice a year before we go somewhere. The starter battery died after 12 years. The leisure batteries still work fine after 15 years.
A lot seems to come down to luck with the batteries. People’s experiences and expectations seem very varied.

Flat 2008 Leisure Batteries revived, sort of

Last night I moved our van to our drive to pack for our first trip of the year, and first I think since last August. The leisure batteries were showing flat. Well they showed 40%, 10% then 0% over less than a minute after the 100 metre drive. I’ve plugged them in for 24 hours and it will be...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[ThomasHJ]

Up to 3 years ago, we also had issues with battery charge levels. We had to plug in the EHU every month to maintain a charge. Issues like the alarm sounding and doors not opening were symptoms.

I then invested in a solar kit with controller that charges both leisure batteries and engine battery. I have not need to plug in to EHU on the drive since.

Also days away at sites with EHU not an issue.

I would recommend a solar kit.

Sound advice, as they will keep the batteries topped up.

However, if there is an underlying issue, it might not be a good solution other then treating symptoms, if that. Unless @Rick and Dylandog negleted the batteries, I would want to know the cause first.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

It was on my wife's EOS a few years ago. it failed though when out shopping and return to carpark to find completely dead. No prior warning. Took 3 day process for VW to authorise despite being obviously dead.
Daughter got her Ford Focus battery replaced under warranty as Stop/Start gave problems.
Batteries have 3 years minimum warranty but must be a proven fault.

If deemed due to lack of maintenance or regular vehicle use to fully charge then it will get rejected as a warranty issue.

We to had a problem with our 18 month old Focus ST. We noticed that the radio wouldn’t play for longer than 2 minutes before shutting itself off the turn the ignition on then another 2 minutes then off again.
Took it into ford and they checked it and said nothing wrong. After doing a bit of googling we found it was a common problem and asked the Ford dealer to check it again. They then replaced the battery and then everything was working again.
They tried to say we weren’t doing enough mileage which is around 6k a year. Soon knocked that one on the head.

 

[Rick and Dylandog]

If you have an electrical fault it should only run only one bus flat -- leisure or starter.

The T 6.1 (which I presume you have -- you might edit your profile to improve the quality of assistance) will only charge the batteries to 80% unless you manually intervene by selecting max charge on the camping control panel and driving for two hours or more or plugging in th ehu.

If you have parked up for a substantial time with partially charged batteries the batteries will sulphate. Heavily sulphated batteries cannot be recovered. A layer of insoluble non-conductive lead sulphate covers the plates.

Suggestion: post detailed charge and park up history. Have you used EHU? Do you have solar? does your solar charge both busses? Were you parked up regularly? Did you use max charge beforehand? Have you had any inadvertent deep discharges? etc etc. This will help us gauge your battery state of health and potentially provide advice to prevent reoccurence.

It's also possible that one bus has recoverable battery(ies) and that VW has given you poor advice. What voltage and state of charge (bar graph) did your control panel indicate?

Another mode of failure of your starter battery that would fit these symptoms is a shorted cell on your starter battery. If so this would be almost certainly be a manufacturing or handling fault, both definitely claimable under warranty.

Summary:

• If all three batteries are faulty the cause is likely sulphation and very likely improper end user handling.
• If the starter battery is faulty but performs 'normally' at 10.7V it has a shorted cell most likely due to a manufacturing or (volkswagen) handling fault.
• If the starter battery is sulphated (won't take a charge) likely a parasitic load has flattened it. It might be recoverable with a good charger. Warranty claim is iffy -- relies on some electrical fault on the van being the underlying cause.

Another complication is that a shorted cell on a battery immediately results in an overcharge on the 5 remaining cells. So diagnosis is complicated and relies on knowledge that's pretty archaic.

Thanks for comprehensive reply. Correct ocean 6.1
We have done about 9000 mile since October 21 and only once let engine battery discharge when the instructions about the roof raising asked the ignition to be turned on (and was left on overnight)Otherwise no issues. Usually have
eHU at camp sites have travelled around Europe and uk

Last EHU April 12/13th
Driven 250 miles in journeys over 4 days
In underground parking from 17th April
Dead on Sunday 4th June.

No solar
SOS light was on from early April and was the original reason for getting to vw garage

I don’t feel I have neglected or abused the batteries but…..

 

[yossarian]

I don’t feel I have neglected or abused the batteries but…..

Agree. Are you sure that all three batteries have been run to zero? It's worth checking if you have the know how.

 

[Rick and Dylandog]

The saga continues. Day 9 at a BW dealership and they now say it’s the alternator. So that makes it all warranty saving me a huge £1200+
But really does it take a workshop that long to diagnose an engine problem!!
I’m no engineer but…..

 

[Rick and Dylandog]

The saga continues. Day 9 at a BW dealership and they now say it’s the alternator. So that makes it all warranty saving me a huge £1200+
But really does it take a workshop that long to diagnose an engine problem!!
I’m no engineer but…..

Make that VW dealership

 

[Steve1]

Make that VW dealership

Alternator not working would definitely account for all batteries running down at once. I would try to insist that they replace all the batteries at the same time as the alternator. If they have all been run flat and stayed flat they won't work as well anymore.

 

[Skootyalan]

I have just returned from a trip to Panama a period of almost 3 weeks to find the engine and leisure battery completely flat. (Ocean 6.1 Nov 2020) Using a power pack I got the engine started and put onto max charge and ran for 30 mins or so. On parking I connected up the EHU and the charging light of the overhead display came on. After 3 days on the EHU the display is saying battery empty, although the interior lights in the van are still working.

Any comments? The van starts and drives ok, so the engine battery is fine. I suspect the dash cam is connected to the leisure circuit and I did not turn the dash cam off before we went on holiday.

If the EHU won't recover the battery is it possible that a CTEK would?

Great start to the New Year!

Oh!! Happy New Year everyone!!

Alan

 

[B J G]

I have just returned from a trip to Panama a period of almost 3 weeks to find the engine and leisure battery completely flat. (Ocean 6.1 Nov 2020) Using a power pack I got the engine started and put onto max charge and ran for 30 mins or so. On parking I connected up the EHU and the charging light of the overhead display came on. After 3 days on the EHU the display is saying battery empty, although the interior lights in the van are still working.

Any comments? The van starts and drives ok, so the engine battery is fine. I suspect the dash cam is connected to the leisure circuit and I did not turn the dash cam off before we went on holiday.

If the EHU won't recover the battery is it possible that a CTEK would?

Great start to the New Year!

Oh!! Happy New Year everyone!!

Alan

I have had success with a CTEK recovering batteries that old charger would charge charge when electronic charger wouldn't attempt.
Definitely worth a try plus purchase cost. Check Tanya price

 

[Skootyalan]

I have a number of CTEK chargers, one of my bad habits is prewar cars!! My problem currently is I can’t find the leisure battery or batteries. The handbook says under drivers seat or in wardrobe ( where I have a safe!!). So more hunting this afternoon!!

Thanks for the response

Alan

 

[B J G]

I have a number of CTEK chargers, one of my bad habits is prewar cars!! My problem currently is I can’t find the leisure battery or batteries. The handbook says under drivers seat or in wardrobe ( where I have a safe!!). So more hunting this afternoon!!

Thanks for the response

Alan

Under wardrobe is accessed by hatch/door at base as seen from under bed.

 

[Skootyalan]

I suspect the drivers side in the handbook for one means the passenger side in the UK!

 

[B J G]

I,ve not gone there as yet but I think that the seat has to be removed for access to that battery..

Warning! Do not turn ignition on if seat is unplugged as it will result in an Air Bag warning which would need clearing by Carista or another means to access the error codes.