BBC Panorama this evening

[Amarillo]

Both Toucan crossings so no difference you are allowed to ride over both on red. Advised to stop at red but advisory only.


Red lights on cycle lanes are mandatory - along with "normal traffic lights"

There was a proposed amendment in 2001 but that doesn't appear to have happened yet.

From Traffic signs regulations & General Directions 1994

"The red pedestrian signal in diagrams 4003.5 [an illuminated red man on the far side of the road] and 4003.7 [an illuminated red man above the push-button unit], and the red cycle symbol in 4003.7 [an illuminated red cycle above the push-button unit], are advisory rather than mandatory for both cyclists and pedestrians. Proposed revision of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions, 1994, Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions, September 2001."

… is the wrong answer.

If it’s a toucan crossing it is a cycle route, so cyclists must stop at the red cycle symbol.

I said it was confusing.

Possibly even more confusing is the rules for cyclists wanting to turn right from the main carriageway onto a cycle route crossing at a toucan crossing.

 

[Amarillo]

Don’t think crossing on red is allowed …ever.

As far as I know there’s no legislation restricting when pedestrians cross at lights. However, they MUST NOT loiter on a crossing.

Pedestrian lights are advisory.

 

[ArunAlec]

As far as I know there’s no legislation restricting when pedestrians cross at lights. However, they MUST NOT loiter on a crossing.

Pedestrian lights are advisory.

Think you are right about pedestrians

 

[Amarillo]

Think you are right about pedestrians

And then there are Pegasus crossings…

 

[andyinluton]

… is the wrong answer.

If it’s a toucan crossing it is a cycle route, so cyclists must stop at the red cycle symbol.

.......is the wrong response
I suggest you do a bit of proper research.

A toucan crossing is used on a combined footpath / cycle path. If it’s a toucan the red is advisory.

There is no distinction between an old or new Toucan.

If it’s a DEDICATED cycle route the signs are mandatory. The easy way to tell if its a DEDICATED cycle route is that the lights are set up like normal traffic lights with Red, Amber & Green Lights but with a cycle symbol on each light. Being a dedicated cycle lane there is no "walking man" symbol.

The image below shows a set to the left of the ordinary lights that are to the left of the ordinary traffic lights to the left of the van, you can just about make out the cycle symbol in red.

This the opposite side of the junction I was sitting at on Tuesday, the route is now open & the cyclists were going through on red , their route goes diagonaly across the junction, with the cycle route changing which side of the road its on.

 

[GrannyJen]

.......is the wrong response
I suggest you do a bit of proper research.

A toucan crossing is used on a combined footpath / cycle path. If it’s a toucan the red is advisory.

There is no distinction between an old or new Toucan.

If it’s a DEDICATED cycle route the signs are mandatory. The easy way to tell if its a DEDICATED cycle route is that the lights are set up like normal traffic lights with Red, Amber & Green Lights but with a cycle symbol on each light. Being a dedicated cycle lane there is no "walking man" symbol.

The image below shows a set to the left of the ordinary lights that are to the left of the ordinary lightweights to the left of the van, you can make out the cycle symbol in red.
View attachment 101666

and was that what was being gratuitously ignored?

This is part of Worthing sea front. I have been accused of promoting dreadful confrontation by posting about an "epidemic of red light running" but honestly this is a lottery for pedestrians. Hotels one side, a huge, wide promenade the other, three sets of pedestrian crossing lights in half a mile and all totally ignored by definitely the majority of cyclists. I've sat there, at a red light, and been bullied out of the way by cyclists telling me to eff off out of the way.

 

[andyinluton]

and was that what was being gratuitously ignored?

Not sure which you are referring to, it was a dedicated cycle signal , not a Toucan.

 

[GrannyJen]

No, see post above , not a Toucan.

se min e above

 

[Amarillo]

.......is the wrong response
I suggest you do a bit of proper research.

A toucan crossing is used on a combined footpath / cycle path. If it’s a toucan the red is advisory.

There is no distinction between an old or new Toucan.

If it’s a DEDICATED cycle route the signs are mandatory. The easy way to tell if its a DEDICATED cycle route is that the lights are set up like normal traffic lights with Red, Amber & Green Lights but with a cycle symbol on each light. Being a dedicated cycle lane there is no "walking man" symbol.

The image below shows a set to the left of the ordinary lights that are to the left of the ordinary traffic lights to the left of the van, you can just about make out the cycle symbol in red.

This the opposite side of the junction I was sitting at on Tuesday, the route is now open & the cyclists were going through on red , their route goes diagonaly across the junction, with the cycle route changing which side of the road its on.
View attachment 101666

Two different toucan crossings.

#1 https://maps.app.goo.gl/qy5cD8cpsksLDy5Z9?g_st=ic

Old style: Cycling across on red allowed

#2 https://maps.app.goo.gl/hs86By79pMquDXMVA?g_st=ic

New style: Cycling across on red not permitted.

However, on a new style toucan crossing the cycle route should have a stop line marked and cyclists must stop behind that stop line. If there is no stop line I’m unsure what the courts would decide if you challenged a FPN

Pedestrians are allowed to use cycle paths, shared use or segregated. The cycle crossing you highlighted at the end of Cycleway 4 is not a toucan crossing.

My original point stands: cyclists might be confused at this cycle crossing because most cycle crossings are toucan crossings and old style toucan crossings are advisory for cyclists.

Old style dedicated cycle crossings do exist. Here’s one on the Rochester Way.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

Note the stop line.

 

[andyinluton]

Two different toucan crossings.

#1 https://maps.app.goo.gl/qy5cD8cpsksLDy5Z9?g_st=ic

Old style: Cycling across on red allowed

#2 https://maps.app.goo.gl/hs86By79pMquDXMVA?g_st=ic

New style: Cycling across on red not permitted.

However, on a new style toucan crossing the cycle route should have a stop line marked and cyclists must stop behind that stop line. If there is no stop line I’m unsure what the courts would decide if you challenged a FPN

Pedestrians are allowed to use cycle paths, shared use or segregated. The cycle crossing you highlighted at the end of Cycleway 4 is not a toucan crossing.

My original point stands: cyclists might be confused at this cycle crossing because most cycle crossings are toucan crossings and old style toucan crossings are advisory for cyclists.

Old style dedicated cycle crossings do exist. Here’s one on the Rochester Way.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

Note the stop line.

Please stop spouting rubbish & read the upto date rules, a Toucan is a Toucan, there is no difference between the rules for old style or New style. Toucans ( two can cross) by definition are shared cycle & pedestrian crossing , red lights at toucan crossings are advisory.

I stated the google image I shared showing Cycleway 4 is not a Toucan crossing, its a "Cycle only Signalled crossing" with a mandatory stop light. Those and "normal" traffic lights are the only ones that Cyclists have to stop at.

I'll even save you going back & checking previous posts for the relevant legal extracts:

From Traffic signs regulations & General Directions 1994

"The red pedestrian signal in diagrams 4003.5 [an illuminated red man on the far side of the road] and 4003.7 [an illuminated red man above the push-button unit], and the red cycle symbol in 4003.7 [an illuminated red cycle above the push-button unit], are advisory rather than mandatory for both cyclists and pedestrians.

Now read the above & go back & look at your photos, you will see what you have shown is described perfectly above, nothing about stop lines or any other nebulous information. It finishes with the words " are advisory rather than mandatory for both cyclists and pedestrians."

I think even the best Lawyers in the land are going to have trouble arguing that "advisory rather than mandatory for both cyclists and pedestrians" means anything other than you can go on red on a bike if you are feeling stupid enough.

 

[Amarillo]

Please stop spouting rubbish & read the upto date rules, a Toucan is a Toucan, there is no difference between the rules for old style or New style. Toucans ( two can cross) by definition are shared cycle & pedestrian crossing , red lights at toucan crossings are advisory.

I stated the google image I shared showing Cycleway 4 is not a Toucan crossing, its a "Cycle only Signalled crossing" with a mandatory stop light. Those and "normal" traffic lights are the only ones that Cyclists have to stop at.

I'll even save you going back & checking previous posts for the relevant legal extracts:

From Traffic signs regulations & General Directions 1994

"The red pedestrian signal in diagrams 4003.5 [an illuminated red man on the far side of the road] and 4003.7 [an illuminated red man above the push-button unit], and the red cycle symbol in 4003.7 [an illuminated red cycle above the push-button unit], are advisory rather than mandatory for both cyclists and pedestrians.

Now read the above & go back & look at your photos, you will see what you have shown is described perfectly above, nothing about stop lines or any other nebulous information. It finishes with the words " are advisory rather than mandatory for both cyclists and pedestrians."

I think even the best Lawyers in the land are going to have trouble arguing that "advisory rather than mandatory for both cyclists and pedestrians" means anything other than you can go on red on a bike if you are feeling stupid enough.

I do like it when I’m proved wrong.

Your position is that all toucan crossings are advisory for both pedestrians and cyclists, and dedicated cycle crossings are mandatory for cyclists?

If that is your position, I’m swayed by it.

But just for balance, here’s a dedicated cycle crossing where seven cyclists appear to be waiting patiently for the lights to turn green, though one seems to have crossed the stop line.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[andyinluton]

Yep that looks like signalled cycle crossing, you can see the back of the red amber & green lights.

Looks like the same situation as the one I showed, standard cross roads for cars but a diagonal crossing for bikes. Pedestrians signaled separately with pelican crossings.

Of course the bikes that ran the lights will be off in the distance somewhere, not hanging around to have their photo taken

 

[soulstyledevon]

Can’t argue with that tweet…