Diesel Cali's - How long have they got left?

[Victor]

In the news again today that they are looking to make more cities diesel-free over the coming years and bringing in more congestion charges with a higher rate for diesels.
If this continues the Cali could die a death quite soon as sales will slow down and it may not become a classic campervan like its ancestors.

I wonder if we will ever see a petrol Cali in the UK? If it is on its way it could be worth waiting rather than risk being stuck with a diesel you cant't use.

 

[GrannyJen]

quite frankly the degree of technology needed now to make diesels cleaner is already making them look as attractive as a bad dose of whatever makes you itch.

I'm trundling around now with all sorts of pipes, spouts and valves designed to make even fiddled emissions look possible, each one of them adding a premium to the price and a breakdown waiting to happen to the total build.

 

[Teejay]

I don't tend to drive into any city centre whether I have a petrol or diesel ,so personally it wouldn't have much effect on me.

But it poses two further question in mind:
1. How will that work with park and ride schemes? I've used both Edinburgh and York, both use buses with large diesel engines. They are great for getting you right into the centre of the city.
2. How will deliveries be made if they cannot use articulated lorries to supply the shops?

Or are they just going to punish the little man?

Are modern EU6 cars to blame? How much legislation is imposed on larger commercial vehicles?

More questions than answers

 

[Meoncoast]

Will park and ride the dirty diesel bus into town

 

[Hotel California]

Today (again ) in our Belgian news , Antwerp starts with a low-emission zone in the city starting from feb. 2017 the first city in Belgium, older diesels and even older petrol cars will not be allowed in the city . ( exeptions can pay a fee a day = very expencive)
My 16y old Renault Kangoo i use to go to work ( in Antwerp) is not allowed anymore.
I usual E-bike to work 99% of the time ( 18km each way 45min so on my bike 1,5h/day!) but when the weather is realy bad (ice or snow) or when i got things to do direct afther work where i need the car , i use the Renault ....
Not anymore from 2/2017.....
Knowing that a ring-highway arround the city is used by +10 000 ths lorrys ,busses , tourists , ....a day , also older and poluting verhicles without any issues ....taking the exit = pay.....!
On the other side of the river the Schelde within 1km from towncenter visible from the citycenter....petrochemical factory's and a nucliar plant ......no problem ! we let the poor people pay according to the politics

 

[Jabberwocky]

In the news again today that they are looking to make more cities diesel-free over the coming years and bringing in more congestion charges with a higher rate for diesels.
If this continues the Cali could die a death quite soon as sales will slow down and it may not become a classic campervan like its ancestors.

I wonder if we will ever see a petrol Cali in the UK? If it is on its way it could be worth waiting rather than risk being stuck with a diesel you cant't use.

You may well be right about the death of the new Diesel Cali but presumable they will continue to be built with whatever the new replacing technology will be. Hybrid, Hydrogen, electric, cold fusion, whatever. Diesels will disappear as they are already close to being more expensive than petrol engines to produce/buy/run. I saw this interesting article on the BBC about Renaults position on Diesel v Petrol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37287129
The next few years will be very interesting.

 

[Digger]

My pollution footprint is small. I don't fly unless for work. I cycle and drive carefully and have a Euro6 engine. I have 6 large trees in my garden. What more can I do? Fact is the latest diesels are as clean as petrol and use less fuel per mile. I think the hysteria is being overplayed and some self serving political persons see an easy way to tax us till we bleed. Our problem will be our local councils will use the taxation to its utmost as they see motorists as easy targets and able to pay.

 

[Jabberwocky]

My pollution footprint is small. I don't fly unless for work. I cycle and drive carefully and have a Euro6 engine. I have 6 large trees in my garden. What more can I do? Fact is the latest diesels are as clean as petrol and use less fuel per mile. I think the hysteria is being overplayed and some self serving political persons see an easy way to tax us till we bleed. Our problem will be our local councils will use the taxation to its utmost as they see motorists as easy targets and able to pay.

Digger, I do hope you are wrong but I fear you will not be. The motorist has always been an easy target.

 

[Dave bee]

There are electric cars that most people won't buy unless the is a huge subsidy form the government and not that long ago we had scrapage to get us into new cars. Each time we build these new economical cars we use more and more resources to make them! The longer we all hold on to our reasonably economical diesel vehicles, California or cars the better. All these new petrol cars do nothing like the mpg the makers claim, VW or anyone else. As for a petrol California, what would you really get mpg out of one of them given their shape and weight!

 

[Rich20]

I don't tend to drive into any city centre whether I have a petrol or diesel ,so personally it wouldn't have much effect on me.

But it poses two further question in mind:
1. How will that work with park and ride schemes? I've used both Edinburgh and York, both use buses with large diesel engines. They are great for getting you right into the centre of the city.
2. How will deliveries be made if they cannot use articulated lorries to supply the shops?

Or are they just going to punish the little man?

Are modern EU6 cars to blame? How much legislation is imposed on larger commercial vehicles?

More questions than answers

I also tend not to drive into cities as parking is usually a pain with height restrictions etc as well as high charges. If more rules come into force about where I can take a diesel vehicle, I will just go where I am welcome. If that means visiting small towns and villages for my shopping etc so be it. The high street is already in trouble so councils will put another nail in their coffin just raise a bit more revenue IMHO?
As for commercial vehicles, they too are being made to comply with regulations ie Euro 6 to make them less polluting as well as electric versions being designed and tested for urban deliveries. This area of technology was well represented at the Commercial vehicle show earlier this year.

 

[Hotel California]

The only reason keeps spinning in my mind to sell my T5 for a 6-er is the banning of dieselcars in some places.
I from time to time think about buying a T6 Coast with petrolengine(yes we can buy those here in Belgium) . But it would cost me a lot of extra money on top!
Governements are digging out our savings with those emmision rules!

 

[soulstyledevon]

I'm glad to see a crack-down on diesel. It's was a horrible fuel from the start. We need a good powerful petrol here in the U.K.
Ultimately would love to see hydrogen power hitting the main stream. If it ever does.

 

[Digger]

Petrol VW Caravelle 150 = 31 mpg and outputs 210g/km CO2
Diesel VW Caravelle 150 = 45 mpg and outputs 164g/km CO2
Euro6 diesel with adblue reduces NOx to very safe low levels
The hysteria surrounding derv deserves reasoned discussion but the truth is the transport systems we enjoy will require diesel fuel for many years to come or we grind to a halt.

 

[CALI FATE]

vote

Today (again ) in our Belgian news , Antwerp starts with a low-emission zone in the city starting from feb. 2017 the first city in Belgium, older diesels and even older petrol cars will not be allowed in the city . ( exeptions can pay a fee a day = very expencive)
My 16y old Renault Kangoo i use to go to work ( in Antwerp) is not allowed anymore.
I usual E-bike to work 99% of the time ( 18km each way 45min so on my bike 1,5h/day!) but when the weather is realy bad (ice or snow) or when i got things to do direct afther work where i need the car , i use the Renault ....
Not anymore from 2/2017.....
Knowing that a ring-highway arround the city is used by +10 000 ths lorrys ,busses , tourists , ....a day , also older and poluting verhicles without any issues ....taking the exit = pay.....!
On the other side of the river the Schelde within 1km from towncenter visible from the citycenter....petrochemical factory's and a nucliar plant ......no problem ! we let the poor people pay according to the politics

vote trump he will fix it

 

[Borris]

IMO the immediate future of diesel is for the manufacturers to continue to make the diesel engine ever cleaner. The whole world currently depends on the diesel engine for almost all applications. From generators and pumps in the third world, to shipping, military, haulage, rail transport, road transport as well as the demonized motor car, we all rely heavily on them. Diesel also provides the all important back up power supplies in many strategically important locations such as hospitals, water pumping stations, sewage works, telephone exchanges and probably GCHQ as well for all I know, to name but a few.

Unless and until a suitable viable alternative is developed then diesel as a world wide power source is here to stay. The bad press that it has been getting has been a very good thing as it will spur on the various manufactures to develop better ways to clean up diesel technology still further. The various hybrid and electric options on offer by the motor industry are promising but IMO are still very much in thier infancy when viewed in terms of a replacement for the above mentioned world wide applications.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, I won't be rushing out to sell my Cali anytime soon and I certainly wouldn't want a petrol version. They are not totally environmentaly clean either and I dread to think what the mpg would be. As far as I am aware the prospect of a hybrid Cali is interesting but purely a pipe dream at present. If and when it materialises then I will be interested to see if it offers a real alternative. IMO, when looking at whole life costs, some of the so called eco vehicles being offered by manufactures today are nothing of the sort.

As for diesels and therefore our Calis, being banned from some larger city centers, well personaly that would be the last place that I and I suspect many other Cali owners would want to go. Again IMO the future in our congested cities is for all non essential traffic whether diesel, petrol, electric or horse and cart, to be either banned or continue to be discouraged in favour of better public transport systems. Whilst I know that many poor soles have to travel into work in cities on a daily basis, the days have long gone when I would contemplate driving into London for example, in any vehicle even very occasionally.

Finaly whilst I fully accept that the diesel engine has its enviromental issues, particularly in congested city centers and that serious steps must be taken to clean up it's act, I suspect that this fact is also a very convenient excuse to treat those who followed previous goverment advice to change to diesel as cash cows, as usual.

 

[Zebedee]

I live in London and the Cali is my daily drive. I walk to work. But I would not be able to visit my nearest supermarket, DIY store or council tip come 2017 without a huge daily fee! I will not be able to go even 1 street away. Boris was going to bring it in later but Mr Khan wants to extend it and bring it forward to next year and I can't afford a T6!

 

[Hotel California]

Bumpt in to this site as i heard Paris is also starting with an emmision zone using a sticker.

http://www.green-zones.eu/en.html

 

[Digger]

Death and taxes. Pay till you die then they take whats left. No wonder the Top Gear team hated civil servants and EU.

 

[Spitfire]

I live in London and the Cali is my daily drive. I walk to work. But I would not be able to visit my nearest supermarket, DIY store or council tip come 2017 without a huge daily fee! I will not be able to go even 1 street away. Boris was going to bring it in later but Mr Khan wants to extend it and bring it forward to next year and I can't afford a T6!

From what I have read, this plan only initially applies at present to vehicles built before 2005.

 

[Amarillo]

Diesel VW Caravelle 150 = 45 mpg and outputs 164g/km CO2
Euro6 diesel with adblue reduces NOx to very safe low levels
The hysteria surrounding derv deserves reasoned discussion but the truth is the transport systems we enjoy will require diesel fuel for many years to come or we grind to a halt.

I understood that one of the issues with diesel are the particulates emissions. This goes into the atmosphere and precipitates back down. When falling as snow it darkens the snow surface causing snow coverings to reflect less of the sun's heat and absorb more. This hastens the retreat of glaciers and accelerates the shrinking of the ice caps.
http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2016/03/22/the-damaging-effects-of-black-carbon/

Conversely, some glaciers, especially those in northern Norway, are growing. This is explained by increased precipitation levels, and not by any reduction in emissions.

 

[Amarillo]

I live in London and the Cali is my daily drive. I walk to work. But I would not be able to visit my nearest supermarket, DIY store or council tip come 2017 without a huge daily fee! I will not be able to go even 1 street away. Boris was going to bring it in later but Mr Khan wants to extend it and bring it forward to next year and I can't afford a T6!

Details here:
https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/mayor-unveils-action-plan-to-battle-toxic-air

I live just outside the South Circular Road (800 yards), and, like you, I make frequent trips across it. The proposal to extend the ULEZ to the South Circular is from 2020.

 

[SqueakyWheel]

I understood that one of the issues with diesel are the particulates emissions. This goes into the atmosphere and precipitates back down.

The diesel combustion process produces far more particulates, but with the regulations required for EU6 engines, most is now filtered out. A diesel T6 California puts out fewer particulates than the equivalent petrol version - comparing for a 150 kW DSG at vw.de:

mg/km Co2 Nox partic
Diesel - 180 - 54,9 - 0,05
Petrol - 214 - 45,1 - 1,29

( of course, presuming that both are maintained correctly and the DPF isn't removed to eek out an extra few HPs whilst destroying the environment )

 

[MattBW]

DPF removal is now a MOT failure but I wonder how many stations would spot it?

 

[motacyclist]

With the exception of those who live and work there, why do the rest of us want to drive our Cali's into city centres when there is so much lovely scenery to be seen in the countryside?

I know some cities are tourist attractions but there are alternative ways to get there. For instance, if you are visiting Liverpool park at Seacombe (see pic taken there) on the Wirral for free and get the ferry over. Or Chester, park by the river at the Roodee and walk into town. (You can also park overnight for about £1.20.)

I'm sure others know similar tips for their local cities?