Don't forget to vote today

[Freeley]

Now those are policies I'd fully endorse James!

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[GrannyJen]

I listened to Ken Clark the other day.

He dismissed UKIP, of course, and all the other fringe parties, on the grounds that "they have no experience of government".

That arrogance did me. Rephrase it, "there are only two parties with experience of government, we have shared power for the last 100 years, any other vote is a waste of time".

Sorry Mr Clark, Mr Milliband, Ms Harmon and every other politician who has spit out this pernicious, corrupt and arrogant line.

I don't vote for the next government. I vote because it is my right to. I vote because I believe in democracy. I vote not for those who believe in the trite, hackneyed politics of the post Pelham and Pitt Era, I vote because I want people in Parliament who listen. I vote because I want the old cozy order broken up. I vote because I want you lot to listen to me. I vote because I do not want a blairite dictator leading us to war.

I do not vote for the next cozy, bi-party, government. I vote because I want parliament to listen to me because every vote, every voice, every opinion counts. If that means shattering the old bi-party political norm of the last 100 years to smithereens then I will vote for it.

I voted today to end this nice, cozy, two party, corrupt, arrogant parliament that all my lifetime I have had to put up with.

 

[gatvol]

Is this the people's army in motion ?

 

[Californiaman]

Not at all sure about this politics malarkey. I for one am happy that there are people out there prepared to do it - at least some of them must be doing it selflessly for the greater good. I wouldn't want to do it. I'm also happy that not all the parties are the same - some, on the face of them aren't great but at least it makes people think.

We are however going camping in the morning. 10 days. All those in favor say 'aye'.

 

[GrannyJen]

Is this the people's army in motion ?

I hope so. WE decide who is in parliament, not politicians. WE decide the mandate, not government. WE need to feel confident that we can tell government what to do, not have them dictate to us.

 

[gatvol]

You are preaching to the perverted here.

The current political class has presided over the ongoing relative decline of this country for decades. I don't know when it started, 70s?, meanwhile life expectancy, house sizes, leisure hours, educational standards, footballing skill, shipbuilding, engineering, train building ...... elsewhere in the developed world have surpassed our own. And freedom of speech is over. And freedom of assembly is over.

 

[GrannyJen]

Only because we have been brainwashed, dictated to, educated, that to vote is a waste of time.

It is not.

I voted to kick the establishment up the arse. Kicking the arrogantly complacent up the backside is never a wasted occupation.

 

[Freeley]

We are however going camping in the morning. 10 days. All those in favor say 'aye'.

AYE!

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[timber]

What a great lot of posts.
When I joined the Forces we were told that
discussions about Religion and Politics were not allowed as it usually lead to blows, ------ however it did happen, it was nearly as exciting as driving the Cali.
The Provost Officer in charge of us when we obtained our promotion gave us advice.
Which was this--------- you have a lot of power now " DON'T GET PISSED WITH POWER"
I hope I didn't
Do the politicians get drunk on power? No there is no need to answer.
Regards to all

 

[bluebell]

=

People will vote UKIP, in their droves that's their choice, i just feel personally they should be ashamed. If you look at what lies behind UKIP and their connections, it's uncomfortable to say the least.


James

Looks like we have millions of ashamed people! I am not ashamed and dont feel uncomfortable

 

[gatvol]

I don't feel ashamed or uncomfortable either. And I am married to an immigrant who was born outside Europe.

I wonder how many UKIP haters have actually even been to a UKIP meeting, or spoken to a UKIP elected representative. It is much easier to hate folk when you don't understand them, or indeed have never spoken to them. Just stereotype them. Quote a few mutters out of the tens of thousands who are members or the millions who voted for the party. Maintain the two party status quo

 

[James]

=

People will vote UKIP, in their droves that's their choice, i just feel personally they should be ashamed. If you look at what lies behind UKIP and their connections, it's uncomfortable to say the least.


James

Looks like we have millions of ashamed people! I am not ashamed and dont feel uncomfortable

Just my view, I think the party offers alarming solutions to problems in society. I have no interest in a party that wants to divide society.

Now they have a presence in local government, we will see what happens, will they back local services for the vulnerable, at a time when our NHS and social services are struggling to cuts and more cuts, what will they do as a party on the right?

They have no policies, no manifesto, what did anyone actually vote for?

I don't hate UKIP and I have spent a fair amount of time debating with people, I don't subscribe to their solutions.

I am not concerned about the media, they will play their own game. UKIP are a far right neoliberal party with that ideology.

There is an idea that by voting for UKIP you upsetting the status quo, I guess there is a fair argument for that, in reality though Nigel Farage and UKIP are no different to any of the other parties, it's just about gaining power.

I think there needs to be debates around immigration but as someone who works in the heart of local communities, it seems apparent to me that having immigration as a topic and a topic in which you can blame people is short sighted.

As they say, be careful what you wish for.

James

 

[BerndRos]

James......

I think those that work for 'us' ie public servants have no idea what cuts actually mean.

The private sector has been decimated these last years. Instead of cutting the services that they provide but keeping their salaries and moaning about pension rights, the private sector has had to enhance the value for money of their services, take a serious cut in pay and likely not make any pension contributions at all.

This country needs sorting out.


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[James]

James......

I think those that work for 'us' ie public servants have no idea what cuts actually mean.

The private sector has been decimated these last years. Instead of cutting the services that they provide but keeping their salaries and moaning about pension rights, the private sector has had to enhance the value for money of their services, take a serious cut in pay and likely not make any pension contributions at all.

This country needs sorting out.


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I am not going to get into a massive debate because, really that's not that the idea and i don't want to offend people anymore than i probably have.

There are problems in this country, I just believe that blaming groups, targeting people isn't the answer, I think everyone needs to take responsibility.

The public sector has also been decimated but the general public don't really have an insight because much of it has been demonised.

We are in a crisis situation, no doubt.

James

 

[BerndRos]

Whether it's Schools, Council Offices, NHS.....they need to cut the waste and offer value for money.

Until we sort out our public services the country will never come right.


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[James]

Whether it's Schools, Council Offices, NHS.....they need to cut the waste and offer value for money.

Until we sort out our public services the country will never come right.


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I don't think there will be much public services left within 5 years, it will all be privatised or open to market forces.

Then we will see what happens.

James

 

[BerndRos]

We don't need to or indeed should we privatise.............

The public servants need to to stop moaning, get a life, and offer value for our dosh.

How on earth did the TB idiot allow doctors to get the contracts they have...it's hardly in the interests of their employers (sorry patients)


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[James]

We don't need to or indeed should we privatise.............

The public servants need to to stop moaning, get a life, and offer value for our dosh.

How on earth did the TB idiot allow doctors to get the contracts they have...it's hardly in the interests of their employers (sorry patients)


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Doctor's never fully signed up to the NHS, that's why they are able to offer private practice, Doctors have never, in that respect truly being public servants.

The problem with offering value for money is that it is often a decision that if it isn't life or death will adversely affect an individual.

There's has been years of the medalling with the public sector, layers and layers of changes. We can afford the public sector, it's quite straightforward but all governments have imposed a quasi marketisation on areas like social services and the NHS, it's that costs.

James

 

[BerndRos]

I am not talking about their private work......

Their pay and conditions are an insult to the rest of us......


Really that's it.....you can lambast me all you like.....but both I and you know I talk sense


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[James]

I am not talking about their private work......

Their pay and conditions are an insult to the rest of us......


Really that's it.....you can lambast me all you like.....but both I and you know I talk sense


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I am no disagreeing with you, the Public Sector does need sorting out but it's not now as straightforward as offering value for money, in many areas of the public sector this is life changing decisions.

It's the meddling that has really burdened the public sector, and this government, like previous ones, has imposed it a culture of targets which are meaningless.

In many areas of the public sector, the focus is not on services or people but on the companies the work they contract to, it's profits before people and that is problematic.

In many areas the public sector is a free for all, whether it is transporting and protecting prisoners, the NHS or social care. It's simply about business and private companies with little regulation because governments operate a policy of non intervention, believing the market will regulate itself, which it won't

It's exactly why I fear any party like UKIP or any other mainstream party, they are too interested in pursuing these ideologies and from a personal experience, I see no good coming from it.

James

 

[BerndRos]

It's a joke......

If you work for Tesco and have a lazy day, you stay late to finish with no overtime pay.

I started a Law Firm at 28 and have run it for 32 years. From 08 to 12 I could not pay myself due to the crisis but did keep my loyal staff in jobs. I had no choice and moaning would not help.

We need to sort out our public employees who need to realise it's our taxes that pay their wages.


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[James]

It's a joke......

If you work for Tesco and have a lazy day, you stay late to finish with no overtime pay.

I started a Law Firm at 28 and have run it for 32 years. From 08 to 12 I could not pay myself due to the crisis but did keep my loyal staff in jobs. I had no choice and moaning would not help.

We need to sort out our public employees who need to realise it's our taxes that pay their wages.


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When you work in the public sector you have that constantly on your mind, sadly, members of the public don't always realise, you're constantly aware that what you give to one, you take from another.

I think the beef for most public service workers is not even pay, it's the concern of the changes imposed upon them which will either affect their job or contribute to more waste.

I don't think the public sector feels it is particularly worse off, it does feel targeted, particularly by this government, being told to accept no pay raises, when there appears to be inequalities in society, i.e. bankers and big companies not paying tax, it's tough. Public Sector wooers are not saints, they're doing a job, but there is a ethos that many have, they believe in what they do, that's not unique but to be demonised feels harsh.

In my case you do work in communities and the most vulnerable and it is hard not to be concerned by the changes in society. A good public sector worker should be campaigning on this front.

James

 

[BerndRos]

This Government promised us cuts but have not really delivered.

As Kernow says they have inflated the housing market to make us feel good and bribe us re voting for them. We are in for a huge fall as housing is 30% over valued.

We need to make demands of our public employees and get them as productive as the private sector.


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[James]

This Government promised us cuts but have not really delivered.

As Kernow says they have inflated the housing market to make us feel good and bribe us re voting for them. We are in for a huge fall as housing is 30% over valued.

We need to make demands of our public employees and get them as productive as the private sector.


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I agree but I think we need to start over with the public sector and decide as a country/society what exactly we want and what we expect

James

 

[gatvol]

Public services are so vital to a functioning society. And they often seem undervalued to me. A planning officer or social worker makes much more important decisions than many private sector employees, but can earn far less.

But there is a huge disconnect between public and private sectors now. I think it is because much of the public sector is still unionised whereas very little of the private sector is.

Privatisation can be hamfisted and lead to problems if the correct businesses are not selected, and then privatised properly. But I think it is the real world solution to heavily unionised industries that enjoy monopoly positions and are reluctant to change. Few governments have the bottle to take on a proper public sector strike. If firemen go on strike that is a major issue, far less so if accountants, insurance salesmen or city bankers do.

Public sector folk might be unhappy at changes in terms and conditions but unlike the shipbuilders, miners, dockers, potters, textile workers, steel workers etc (who have often been forced out of work, had to leave their communities, and have had to retrain and take pay cuts to find work), the public sector folk have far greater relative stability.