EGR - Insufficient Flow - £1700

Why don't VW want to fess up to their inadequate design that is costing people thousands on new engines if problem is not spotted early enough?
 
The 180 eats the EGR cooler so I would be looking elsewhere. A couple of hours/ £120 ... job done. Mine is a 2015 Bi Turbo.

My two hybrid vehicles and my PVs offset the loss. Plus I now walk to work
 
Perfectos said:
Hi Irishladdie
Your in luck

I have just had the EGR tube and a flush of the system carried out at by the AA
My van in 2018, with 12,000 miles on the clock.

After a 350 mile drive and some local one hour drives the Engine management light came on, call VW Assist who sent out an AA patrol.
AA man reset the engine management light, bu5 said it would come back on (which the engine management light did come back on

However the first AA man said that the AA have been supplied with machines to flush the build up of exhaust sludge from the system! He asked is I wanted to get it fixed whilst I was at the campsite.
Obviously I accepted his offer, several days later ( after Bank holiday) another AA patrol attended my vehicle, he had a machine with him, long story short, the existing EGR pipe was removed the EGR valve was fitted with a device to hold it open, the machine was connected to the engine and a valve was connected to my vans exhaust, the AA man added a chemical to two 10L water drums, which were attached to the machine. My van was started, the machine was started and the flush process commenced.
The AA man went to his van, got a band new “modified “ EGR pipe
The modified (brand new) pipe has a slot in the top of the tube, the old pipe has two holes in the end.
He also pulled out several old type design, used but cleaned up, which presumably they fit at the road side when the machine is not available and VW do not authorise the modified EGR pipe to be fitted.
On inspection, the old EGR pipe has quite a lot of soft black tar in the end where the holes were, the holes were partially blocked by the black gunk that was residing in the tube, which causes the sensor to register low flow rate and throw up the engine management light.
Whilst the machine carried out its job, flushing the EGR system, I spoke the AA man.
Who told me that the EGR low flow is a very common issue particularly on T6 vans, VW had recognised the “design fault” and had re-engineered the EGR pipe to change the design and prevent the issue.
VW have provided the AA with these machines and the modified VW EGR tube, so they can carry out the mod at the road side, saving on breakdown and recovery costs.
The AA man told me that he as carrying out the work on behalf of VW ( and VW assist) the work is authorised by VW and is fully warranted by VW,
VW have widley acknowledged the issue and therefore provide the parts and equipment to the AA so they can carry ou5 the remedial works. The work will be registered by VW assist, presumably updating my vehicle records to show the updated EGR pipe has been supplied and fitted.

The whole process, including me chatting to the AA man (so slowing him up) took about an hour ! The part, IMO would be £20, the 2 litres of chemical would be pence!

IMO, the dealer is having your pants down

VW are aware of the issue with the EGR pipe on the T6

My van is still in warranty, however, May I suggest you either contact VW assist if you are a member, if you are not a member, suggest you join, call vw assist and have a discussion regarding the above and having the remedial work carried out, (you may need to drive a few miles from your home to ensure the costs of recovery etc warrant the cost of VW assist authorising the work)
I have photos of the original EGR tube, the new modified design and the machine , chemical etc that was used by the AA
I will post them in this thread for all to see.
Click to expand...
Surely this would be classed as a recall on new vehicles? I have the same yr model, engine and box 23k miles no issues. Unless they fixed/replaced it at last service??
 
A lot of talk about the various options for flushing the EGR but many issues with the VW EGR are down to electrical and mechanical failures of the EGR valve. I had an intermittent fault with the EGR, which was only resolved by replacIng the EGR valve itself. Essentially the valve uses a mechanical cam to change the flow through the valve depending on throttle position. The cam wears and eventually the electronics cry foul when the input flow and output flows fall out of tolerance. I read somewhere that the electronics inside the EGR valve can also be prone to excess condensation. Either way don’t assume that a flush will fix the problem, but certainly worth a try if it’s going to cost £1700 to fix.
That said, a reputable VW specialist rather than a VAG main dealer will likely be a cheaper option but at WelshGas says the bi-turbo engine is a much more challenging beast to work on as the EGR is buried deep in the engine bay.
Good luck.
 
Our EGR failed in 2018, it allowed coolant back into the cylinders via the exhaust valve resulting in hydraulic lock, fortunately van was on our drive. At that time Bill from VW Edinburgh was £2017. That included new can belt and water pump which is worth doing while the bits are off awayway.
 
Very interesting post, I have a 67 plate ocean 150ps, I have had it from new after regrettably selling my 14 plate t5.1 180 with never having any issues, my ocean has only done 10000 miles which is nothing I know but work and covid this year has restricted travel but it is paid for and it is there when we need it. Unfortunately last year we broke down on the way to Scotland had to cancel the trip and get recovered home , apparently a vacuum pipe had come off, had a few trips after no problems, we have 2 weeks planned end of September so we thought we would take it out the other day for a drive, got 40 minutes from home, glow plug light flashing and limp mode same as before, I limped it back home and checked the fault codes, something to do with the inlet manifold bank 1 stuck shut, luckily still in warranty till end of October, spoken to vw and is in there as I speak, I have been a HGV technician for 25 years so I expressed my concern and I don't want it breaking down in a week's time going to Cornwall!!, Obviously I am concerned and getting worried it is going to cause me bother, I am really thinking when it comes out of warranty of blanking the egr and getting it mapped out and even possibly deleting the dpf? Has anyone had this done and recommend anybody? I feel like this will be an on going issue, yes I don't use my van that often but you shouldn't be having issues and having to take them out for a run before you go on a big trip, the only answer to me is get rid of the egr etc, I just don't want to do it and it causes more problems, I am also thinking about taking out extended warranty with vw but I feel this will be a small fortune, this is all because I have lost faith in it, any advice regarding the dilema I'm in would be grateful
 
wilde1 said:
Very interesting post, I have a 67 plate ocean 150ps, I have had it from new after regrettably selling my 14 plate t5.1 180 with never having any issues, my ocean has only done 10000 miles which is nothing I know but work and covid this year has restricted travel but it is paid for and it is there when we need it. Unfortunately last year we broke down on the way to Scotland had to cancel the trip and get recovered home , apparently a vacuum pipe had come off, had a few trips after no problems, we have 2 weeks planned end of September so we thought we would take it out the other day for a drive, got 40 minutes from home, glow plug light flashing and limp mode same as before, I limped it back home and checked the fault codes, something to do with the inlet manifold bank 1 stuck shut, luckily still in warranty till end of October, spoken to vw and is in there as I speak, I have been a HGV technician for 25 years so I expressed my concern and I don't want it breaking down in a week's time going to Cornwall!!, Obviously I am concerned and getting worried it is going to cause me bother, I am really thinking when it comes out of warranty of blanking the egr and getting it mapped out and even possibly deleting the dpf? Has anyone had this done and recommend anybody? I feel like this will be an on going issue, yes I don't use my van that often but you shouldn't be having issues and having to take them out for a run before you go on a big trip, the only answer to me is get rid of the egr etc, I just don't want to do it and it causes more problems, I am also thinking about taking out extended warranty with vw but I feel this will be a small fortune, this is all because I have lost faith in it, any advice regarding the dilema I'm in would be grateful
Click to expand...

Some info here that might be of interest:

Darkside Developments - Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)

www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk
 
Quite dispiriting I’m sure. Any mechanical failure inevitably leaves you with lingering doubts about future reliability.

Whilst difficult to offer any real sage advice, I shouldn’t be too negative. With any luck it’s just a faulty sensor and just bad luck that you’ve had two incidents in relatively short order.

Lay it on thick with the VW dealer and make sure you get the problem thoroughly investigated and fixed under warranty. Any official repair will come with its own warranty and you have pretty good grounds to argue the toss should anything else related to the EGR come up, even out of warranty.

An extended warranty is not cheap but it might give you the peace of mind that will allow you to enjoy your van without too much stress. You pays your money and takes your choice.

As for deleting the EGR and removing the DPF etc. I wouldn’t. You risk MOT failure and it is illegal to use a vehicle on the public road that has had any manufacturer fitted emissions control equipment removed. Could potentially complicate resale etc.

I know I fell out with my van for a time when it let me down with an EGR valve failure. But I took the repair on the chin and my van hasn’t missed a beat since. Hope you get it sorted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Richard Teale said:
Quite dispiriting I’m sure. Any mechanical failure inevitably leaves you with lingering doubts about future reliability.

Whilst difficult to offer any real sage advice, I shouldn’t be too negative. With any luck it’s just a faulty sensor and just bad luck that you’ve had two incidents in relatively short order.

Lay it on thick with the VW dealer and make sure you get the problem thoroughly investigated and fixed under warranty. Any official repair will come with its own warranty and you have pretty good grounds to argue the toss should anything else related to the EGR come up, even out of warranty.

An extended warranty is not cheap but it might give you the peace of mind that will allow you to enjoy your van without too much stress. You pays your money and takes your choice.

As for deleting the EGR and removing the DPF etc. I wouldn’t. You risk MOT failure and it is illegal to use a vehicle on the public road that has had any manufacturer fitted emissions control equipment removed. Could potentially complicate resale etc.

I know I fell out with my van for a time when it let me down with an EGR valve failure. But I took the repair on the chin and my van hasn’t missed a beat since. Hope you get it sorted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Thank you for your sound advice, I love the California life and feel very lucky and privileged to have such an outstanding vehicle, at the moment it is just a shame of the problems under the bonnet, I have bought myself a carista so if I am away at least I can see the faults and decide to carry on or get recovered, depending on how easy it is to remove the egr I could make it a annual thing to remove it and clean it myself, not that you should have to but other than going down the route of blanking and modifying I think there will be issues later down the line, it could also be the way I drive, I'm 43 but I don't ever really give it any pain, this could be most of the problems, may have to get a lead weight in my right foot now and again I am interested in getting it mapped out but your right in what you say, it could come and bite me in the arse later on, being in the trade I am a big believer to leave things standard
 
wilde1 said:
Thank you for your sound advice, I love the California life and feel very lucky and privileged to have such an outstanding vehicle, at the moment it is just a shame of the problems under the bonnet, I have bought myself a carista so if I am away at least I can see the faults and decide to carry on or get recovered, depending on how easy it is to remove the egr I could make it a annual thing to remove it and clean it myself, not that you should have to but other than going down the route of blanking and modifying I think there will be issues later down the line, it could also be the way I drive, I'm 43 but I don't ever really give it any pain, this could be most of the problems, may have to get a lead weight in my right foot now and again I am interested in getting it mapped out but your right in what you say, it could come and bite me in the arse later on, being in the trade I am a big believer to leave things standard
Click to expand...
I had my EGR changed at 2 weeks and 900 miles due to an electrical fault in it. Now just shy of 100,000 miles in almost 6 yrs and on the same EGR. Used as a daily driver but when touring cover big distances.
 
i had a good chat with darkside development, as they came well recommended.
Essentially they stated that the 180 biturbo could not be flushed.

Summary of email discussions below
Good afternoon.

We can supply an aftermarket one from Pierburg (These are a good brand)

From £545+ VAT - Or a genuine VAG one from £750+ VAT

After market: https://www.darksidedevelopments.co...-egr-and-cooler-03l-115-512-d-03l115512d.html
Genuine VAG: https://www.darksidedevelopments.co...-egr-and-cooler-03l-115-512-d-03l115512d.html

We can fit these from £250+ VAT

Alternatively if you want to remove it, we can there would be issues with MOT in the future.

We must advise it is illegal to remove emission control devices from vehicles permitted to drive on UK roads.
The work would be strictly performed for off road use. This means we can not accept any responsibility for the vehicle being driven on UK roads. Also when carrying out custom tunes, we would not be able to road test afterwards.

We could blank the EGR, fit a downpipe to bypass the DPF - Code both our those out the software to avoid any warning / fault codes / limp mode etc.

And you'll never have issues with the, again

VW Transporter T5.1 EGR Blanking Kit for 2.0 BiTDI CFCA Engine £40+ VAT
https://www.darksidedevelopments.co...r-blanking-kit-for-2-0-bitdi-cfca-engine.html

Transporter T5.1 2.0 TDI CR DPF Delete Downpipe £300+ VAT
https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/transporter-t5-1-2-0-tdi-cr-dpf-delete-downpipe.html

Tuning would be £450+ VAT

Check out our blog for more information on the Bi-TDI's

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/Blog/20-bitdi-engines-what-to-know/

---------------------------
Also spoke to VW customer service, who were truly awful. At one state she actually said to me that the "Customer has to take repsonsibliy for the vehicle at some stage", I was shocked and replied that "happy to take repsosnibily, if there was some was of maintaining it, flushing it and not a design fault of a component that is expected to fail". I was told I should have take out the extended warranty then :mad:. Truly, truly awful. I asked to speak to her line manager and failed to get a call back.

In the interim, my local VW has given me a token 5% off.

Also, can anyone confirm that labour is £110+ vat. Was shocked at that too!!!
 
Even £545 for an EGR and cooler sounds expensive, but I have no basis for that assertion. £250 for fitting does however sound very reasonable as it’s a big job on the twin turbo engine.

As for the £110 per hour that VW is quoting for labour, that is simply outrageous!

Have you looked for a local VW specialist rather than a VW franchised dealership? I use a local specialist Moorfield German Motors near Leeds/Bradford Airport (https://www.moorfieldgermanmotors.co.uk/). Can’t recommend them highly enough having used them for general servicing, EGR replacement, coilover suspension fitting and ECU remapping. Richard, the guy who owns the business, runs a Caravelle and they really know their stuff.

I’d suggest looking for a similar VAG specialist in your area.
 
just Seen this on the T6 forum

www.t6forum.com

EGR Thermal Window emmissions Court Ruling July 2022

I''ve had a letter today from the dealers I bought my 2018 T6 from about 8 weeks ago. It's following an EU court Ruling in July 2022 about Thermal Windows. Has anyone else received the letter, or aware of the ruling, Is it another cheat device?
www.t6forum.com www.t6forum.com


edit:

europe.autonews.com

VW risks more consumer claims after EU court ruling

VW said its use of so-called thermal windows is in line with the law but the ruling may open the door to lawsuits for compensation over sales contracts for affected cars.
europe.autonews.com europe.autonews.com
 
Perfectos said:
just Seen this on the T6 forum

www.t6forum.com

EGR Thermal Window emmissions Court Ruling July 2022

I''ve had a letter today from the dealers I bought my 2018 T6 from about 8 weeks ago. It's following an EU court Ruling in July 2022 about Thermal Windows. Has anyone else received the letter, or aware of the ruling, Is it another cheat device?
www.t6forum.com www.t6forum.com


edit:

europe.autonews.com

VW risks more consumer claims after EU court ruling

VW said its use of so-called thermal windows is in line with the law but the ruling may open the door to lawsuits for compensation over sales contracts for affected cars.
europe.autonews.com europe.autonews.com
Click to expand...
The second article mentions this bein an issue for EA189 engines, whose production stopped in 2015. In the first article, or forum chat, it is referenced to a 2018 T6...
 
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