Engine heater in pain!

[Skewif]

My engine heater (the one that helps warm it up under 5 deg C) has started to squark in a way that doesn’t sound very healthy. Has anyone else had this? How long has it got? What can bring it back to full health?

 

[Emil Silenhag]

First of all, what type of heater is fitted? Is it Webasto Thermo Top C? Check your label in the door.
Squark? Is that some strange noise? Well, you have a coolant pump, a diesel pump and a combustion fan that could be the source. Or maybe the combustion it self? You could try to read out diagnostic data. Or remove the plastic under guards and check it out. The heater is located underneath the vehicle, under left hand side front seat. The coolant pump and the diesel pump is next to the heater. The combustion fan is part of the heater, which could be removed completely from the car. You can buy spare parts and replace them your self if you are handy with tools. I have replaced the burner and glow plug in two heaters...

 

[sidepod]

Exhaust blocked/crushed?

 

[westfalia]

Come down from the mountains man.
It´s a balmy 25° in the day and about 9° at night.

Your van has had enough up there

 

[briwy]

Have you been through any fords?

 

[Skewif]

First of all, what type of heater is fitted? Is it Webasto Thermo Top C? Check your label in the door.
Squark? Is that some strange noise? Well, you have a coolant pump, a diesel pump and a combustion fan that could be the source. Or maybe the combustion it self? You could try to read out diagnostic data. Or remove the plastic under guards and check it out. The heater is located underneath the vehicle, under left hand side front seat. The coolant pump and the diesel pump is next to the heater. The combustion fan is part of the heater, which could be removed completely from the car. You can buy spare parts and replace them your self if you are handy with tools. I have replaced the burner and glow plug in two heaters...

Thank you, it is a thermo top type C. The noise sounds to me like a dry / worn plain bearing coming from the combustion air fan of the heater. First noticed it last winter when turning off the engine while heater was operating you could hear this dry bearing noise as it spun down. It’s getting worse as now I can hear it above the noise of a cold engine start. It’s intermittent but becoming more on than off. When having its last service there were no fault codes and I did mention the noise but didn’t get much of an answer. I had a good look at the heater while covers were off for the fitting of rock slider bars but nothing visually wrong. Have not ever been through deep waters and the exhaust was clear. There is however a lot of very fine abrasive dust in the places I travel.

I have no problem dismantling complex mechanics and have all the tools but see from the parts catalog that they don’t supply down to component level only assembly's. Wondered if better to take it to a Webasto agent who knows what it is or could be would be a better option? Or just wait for it to die completely as anything intermittent never performs its fault when paying for a technician.

 

[Skewif]

Come down from the mountains man.
It´s a balmy 25° in the day and about 9° at night.

Your van has had enough up there

Lol.. I’ve just come down and in shock as to how warm it is in central France. It’s so nice not to have to put several layers on the moment the sun goes down. Me thinks go somewhere much warmer in the spring. Just got to decide where...

 

[Hotel California]

Maybe you have been using it on high altitude while it's suppose to work normal until certain hight....did you evere have it preped for high altitude ?

 

[Skewif]

Maybe you have been using it on high altitude while it's suppose to work normal until certain hight....did you evere have it preped for high altitude ?

The heater works fine no matter what the altitude. It’s just not sounding good.

 

[sidepod]

Just pull the fuse and leave it till you can get it looked at.
Hardly a major issue is it?

 

[Emil Silenhag]

Thank you, it is a thermo top type C. The noise sounds to me like a dry / worn plain bearing coming from the combustion air fan of the heater. First noticed it last winter when turning off the engine while heater was operating you could hear this dry bearing noise as it spun down. ...
....
I have no problem dismantling complex mechanics and have all the tools but see from the parts catalog that they don’t supply down to component level only assembly's. Wondered if better to take it to a Webasto agent who knows what it is or could be would be a better option? Or just wait for it to die completely as anything intermittent never performs its fault when paying for a technician.

If you have a competent Webasto agent nearby, then yes, they should be able to diagnose it. I also had problems with mine. Tried to find a Webasto work shop here in Oslo, but it was not easy. When I finally found one, the had the car for a couple of hours then charged me for the diagnostic service, 350 euro. They told me that I had to replace the whole heater at the total cost of 2400 euros. I didn’t accept that offer. Went home and decided to do everything my self. Long story short, it ended with me replacing the glow plug and burner, cost me 240 euro. Now worked 100% fine for 7 months. I also have a remote to be able to start it without the engine running (preheat the engine in the winter).

If it is the combustion fan the part is availble, part number 1322649A, google it. You could also buy a used ThermoTop C or similar to strip for parts. Anyway you should also consider to replace the glow plug and burner assembly.
https://standheizung-ersatzteile.co...ebasto/repair-parts/25258/brenner-tt-c-diesel

If you decide to do it your self, here is some description. Bare in mind that it is a big project if it is the first time. But not extremely difficult.
First of all, disconnect the starter battery and the second battery under the seat.
1. Remove three plastic covers underneath to reveal the Webasto. In the same time you have to remove the diesel cooler. The in and out fuel line simply disconnects by pushing in a smal button in the end of the fuel line. The diesel will not start to pour out..
2. Drain the coolant by disconnect one of the hoses in the T connection next to the Webasto. Collect the coolant in a clean container if you want to reuse it. Then disconnect the two coolant hoses that runs up to the engine compartment.
3. Undo/remove the smal exhaust pipe, the fuel line to the heater and three electric connections to the coolant pump, fuel pump and the heater it self.
4. Undo the bracket/basket that holds the Webasto and lower it carefully to the ground with suitable jack.
5. Undo the Webasto from the bracket/basket to be able to work on it in a comfortable place. It is easy to disassemble the Webasto. Carefully remove a cover to undo two electric connectors. Then continue on with screws that hold the combustion fan to the burner chamber. And so on. You need new gasket which you get if you buy the glow plug and burner unit...
6. When done, put everything together again in reverse order.
7. Top up coolant.

 

[Skewif]

If you have a competent Webasto agent nearby, then yes, they should be able to diagnose it. I also had problems with mine. Tried to find a Webasto work shop here in Oslo, but it was not easy. When I finally found one, the had the car for a couple of hours then charged me for the diagnostic service, 350 euro. They told me that I had to replace the whole heater at the total cost of 2400 euros. I didn’t accept that offer. Went home and decided to do everything my self. Long story short, it ended with me replacing the glow plug and burner, cost me 240 euro. Now worked 100% fine for 7 months. I also have a remote to be able to start it without the engine running (preheat the engine in the winter).

If it is the combustion fan the part is availble, part number 1322649A, google it. You could also buy a used ThermoTop C or similar to strip for parts. Anyway you should also consider to replace the glow plug and burner assembly.
https://standheizung-ersatzteile.co...ebasto/repair-parts/25258/brenner-tt-c-diesel

If you decide to do it your self, here is some description. Bare in mind that it is a big project if it is the first time. But not extremely difficult.
First of all, disconnect the starter battery and the second battery under the seat.
1. Remove three plastic covers underneath to reveal the Webasto. In the same time you have to remove the diesel cooler. The in and out fuel line simply disconnects by pushing in a smal button in the end of the fuel line. The diesel will not start to pour out..
2. Drain the coolant by disconnect one of the hoses in the T connection next to the Webasto. Collect the coolant in a clean container if you want to reuse it. Then disconnect the two coolant hoses that runs up to the engine compartment.
3. Undo/remove the smal exhaust pipe, the fuel line to the heater and three electric connections to the coolant pump, fuel pump and the heater it self.
4. Undo the bracket/basket that holds the Webasto and lower it carefully to the ground with suitable jack.
5. Undo the Webasto from the bracket/basket to be able to work on it in a comfortable place. It is easy to disassemble the Webasto. Carefully remove a cover to undo two electric connectors. Then continue on with screws that hold the combustion fan to the burner chamber. And so on. You need new gasket which you get if you buy the glow plug and burner unit...
6. When done, put everything together again in reverse order.
7. Top up coolant.


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Wow! Thank you so much, your post is incredibly helpful. Have found a combustion air fan kit https://www.butlertechnik.com/webas...-combustion-motor-12v-9001383b-1322649a-p1577. Do you feel this is most likely the part needed to solve my squawking / screeching heater?

 

[briwy]

Have you bashed your underside guard up onto it? Just a thought, if it's touching it it may amplify the noise.

 

[Emil Silenhag]

Wow! Thank you so much, your post is incredibly helpful. Have found a combustion air fan kit https://www.butlertechnik.com/webas...-combustion-motor-12v-9001383b-1322649a-p1577. Do you feel this is most likely the part needed to solve my squawking / screeching heater?

Unfortunately I can’t guarantee anything, I haven’t heard the sound...But there isn’t much else there that could be the source (?). In theory a big soot particle could partially block the exhaust, which also could generate the sound ??? There are usually A LOT of soot in the burner. Maybe the modern eco diesel give more soot in the Webasto?
Or it could be the coolant recirculation pump or fuel pump...but as said, probably the combustion fan (?)...

 

[Skewif]

Unfortunately I can’t guarantee anything, I haven’t heard the sound...But there isn’t much else there that could be the source (?). In theory a big soot particle could partially block the exhaust, which also could generate the sound ??? There are usually A LOT of soot in the burner. Maybe the modern eco diesel give more soot in the Webasto?
Or it could be the coolant recirculation pump or fuel pump...but as said, probably the combustion fan (?)...

Thank you again. As you say there isn’t much else it could be. The fuel pump is ticking and the circulation pump would only run at one speed unlike this noise which changes tone / speed depending on burner cycle. I will order the part and do the repairs with my mechanic as easiest when the van is up high. Your time taken to post is truely appreciated.

 

[westfalia]

That spare wheel is nearly as bad as sidepods

 

[Skewif]

That spare wheel is nearly as bad as sidepods

Lol... it’s not as bad as it looks. It’s actually brand new and only ever done less than 50 Miles. Now 2/3 of the way home and the frigging catalytic converter warning light has come on just after refuelling. Please, please let it only the oxygen sensor

 

[westfalia]

Yes, for some reason whenever my cat light has come on its
just been a case of replacing the lambda sensor.
I´ve had 3 replaced.

 

[Skewif]

Yes, for some reason whenever my cat light has come on its
just been a case of replacing the lambda sensor.
I´ve had 3 replaced.

Thank you that’s reassuring to know. How much does that cost each time?

 

[westfalia]

Thank you that’s reassuring to know. How much does that cost each time?

I´m not sure, but no more than 150€.

Once my fault had been diagnosed i´ve waited until the next
service to get it done so the cost has been added to
whatever the service was.

 

[sidepod]

That spare wheel is nearly as bad as sidepods

Ouch!

 

[Skewif]

Have you bashed your underside guard up onto it? Just a thought, if it's touching it it may amplify the noise.

Thanks but nothing out of place underneath, no damage at all. Skid plates / bars did their job well.

 

[Emil Silenhag]

For some more pictures of servicing the Webasto heater follow the links below.
It is a description how to replace glow plug and burner in Norwegian/Swedish (I’m Swedish but live in Norway) but there is a lot of pictures.

ThermoTop C (engine heater)
http://www.vwbus.no/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=47492

AirTop 3500ST (Auxiliary heater)
http://www.vwbus.no/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=47472

Workshop manual:
http://www.vwbus.no/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=44080

 

[DiskOne]

Thanks but nothing out of place underneath, no damage at all. Skid plates / bars did their job well.

Hello Skewif,
i dig out this thread hopping you resolved your ThermoTop problem. Reading your noise description, i'm pretty sure i have the same issue. Started to squeak more and more ofter when cold (works fine when hot, not so good for a heater . Now it starts, squeak, then stop. If the engin is un little hot it works.
I changed the air combustion fan. I saw the seal was broken on few millimeters. I replaced the module and the seal, but i broke one screw while building up, damn. Now the problem is still the same.
The VCDS error tells about ground fault on V6 fan. A russian guy explain the problem is on ECU bord.
So i'm kind of lost now.
Thanks a lot in advance if you have advices to solve this.

 

[Skewif]

Hello Skewif,
i dig out this thread hopping you resolved your ThermoTop problem. Reading your noise description, i'm pretty sure i have the same issue. Started to squeak more and more ofter when cold (works fine when hot, not so good for a heater . Now it starts, squeak, then stop. If the engin is un little hot it works.
I changed the air combustion fan. I saw the seal was broken on few millimeters. I replaced the module and the seal, but i broke one screw while building up, damn. Now the problem is still the same.
The VCDS error tells about ground fault on V6 fan. A russian guy explain the problem is on ECU bord.
So i'm kind of lost now.
Thanks a lot in advance if you have advices to solve this.

Sorry I didn't really get anywhere with the heater as it developed another fault where the combustion fan would start without the engine running and then run indefinitely. Simple solution was take the fuse out. Because of the recent cold I did put the fuse back in for a couple of trips and it seemed to work okay. After a bit or research it turns out this is a common fault with the control board in the heater. As the whole heater is past its best and I'm so rarely anywhere, that is below 5° I'll just wait and buy a new heater when I really need it. Good luck.