Flat battery and 4 motion

[campandfly]

I have read somewhere on this forum that the dash cigarette lighters are live when the engine is turned off and some have plugged in a small solar panel to charge the battery through the lighter socket.

Assuming you are not on hookup and the ignition is off.
What would happen if you had a simple wire with 2 male cigarette plugs one running from the 12v leisure powered socket on the passenger sink cabinet to the dash 12v cigarette socket.

Would this balance power to the batteries and so avoid a flat starter battery while using the radio or cause some issue?

Disclaimer I am not recommending it. But would be interested on any electronically minded forum members thoughts.

 

[TripleBee]

You could end up with 3 flat batteries in the worst case.
If your starter battery is going, and you plug your leisure batteries to the starter battery, they will keep sending current to the starter battery.
It all depends on the state the batteries are in. And I would only do it (no I won't), if the 3 batteries are all exact the same values.

 

[campandfly]

Yes I should have mentioned the scenario would be just parked up after driving and all batteries full.

I would perhaps only do it for one evening and disconnect before going to bed.
In hindsight this would probably only be ok for very short times as if your fridge, heater and lights were running this would also be treating your starter battery as a leisure battery.


Another thought if in the morning your starter battery was flat due to playing the radio.
Could you use the cable for putting some charge into your starter battery.
Waiting a while then disconnecting the cable and then starting your engine.

Just thoughts from a non auto electrical expert.

 

[WelshGas]

Yes I should have mentioned the scenario would be just parked up after driving and all batteries full.

I would perhaps only do it for one evening and disconnect before going to bed.
In hindsight this would probably only be ok for very short times as if your fridge, heater and lights were running this would also be treating your starter battery as a leisure battery.


Another thought if in the morning your starter battery was flat due to playing the radio.
Could you use the cable for putting some charge into your starter battery.
Waiting a while then disconnecting the cable and then starting your engine.

Just thoughts from a non auto electrical expert.

Why not get a Jump Starter. It can be charged from a Leisure 12v circuit and doesn’t have to be left plugged in and used in emergencies. It does have other uses also.

Power Packs for flat Cali Battery

Coming from the generation who carried around a set of jump leads I've been amazed at how things have moved on. I use them for phones etc but was not aware how portable and powerful they have become. Looking to pick one up with sufficient grunt to start a flat 204 Cali. Any recommendations as...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[campandfly]

Why not get a Jump Starter. It can be charged from a Leisure 12v circuit and doesn’t have to be left plugged in and used in emergencies. It does have other uses also.

Power Packs for flat Cali Battery

Coming from the generation who carried around a set of jump leads I've been amazed at how things have moved on. I use them for phones etc but was not aware how portable and powerful they have become. Looking to pick one up with sufficient grunt to start a flat 204 Cali. Any recommendations as...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Yes a jump starter would be ideal. I was just thinking of a temporary hack for not draining the starter battery while listening to music.
Lots of alternatives really especially with those portable Bluetooth speakers.

We watched a movie on the laptop the other night connected to one of those cigarette lighter Bluetooth hands free phone things. Surround sound was great on the Cali speakers. Of course you are using the starter battery and you have to press the radio button after 20 minutes but it worked really well.

 

[babble]

i've got the latest solar stuff from solar camper solutions arriving today, that will charge all my batteries when the sun is out:

New Dual Battery Solar Regulators for 2020

We are now stocking Epever dual battery MPPT chargers for 2020. Dual = charging leisure (one or two of) PLUS your starter battery (this is to clarify that in an Ocean, you are really charging three batteries !). For most people, charging the starter battery is not required as it gets topped up...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

meanwhile (and anyway) i would probably just get one of these:

 

[mountainman]

Ah! Thankfully I wasn't camping and the van, a 2011 180 Cali Berghaus, was just in my drive. As far as I knew only the security was live in the vehicle and that had never caused a problem, even over a long period. I went to move the van and it wouldn't start. First time that had happened. I didn't really check anything just plugged it into the mains hook-up and left it to charge. Next day it started fine. 4 days later and same problem but this time, like you, I noticed the heater error indicator flashing on the very top left of the Camping Control Panel. I plugged in the mains hook-up again then tried the heater. Nothing. I then switched the control panel to home and then the heater error light went out. I tried the heater and it works fine. So now there is no error light so I am hoping all is OK. I imagine that the heater had become stuck in the shutdown phase or something and continued to draw power. Can that happen? The other aspect that doesn't make sense is that if this were the case, why was the engine battery flat? as I thought the heater has a dedicated battery, the one in front of the water tank?

 

[WelshGas]

Ah! Thankfully I wasn't camping and the van, a 2011 180 Cali Berghaus, was just in my drive. As far as I knew only the security was live in the vehicle and that had never caused a problem, even over a long period. I went to move the van and it wouldn't start. First time that had happened. I didn't really check anything just plugged it into the mains hook-up and left it to charge. Next day it started fine. 4 days later and same problem but this time, like you, I noticed the heater error indicator flashing on the very top left of the Camping Control Panel. I plugged in the mains hook-up again then tried the heater. Nothing. I then switched the control panel to home and then the heater error light went out. I tried the heater and it works fine. So now there is no error light so I am hoping all is OK. I imagine that the heater had become stuck in the shutdown phase or something and continued to draw power. Can that happen? The other aspect that doesn't make sense is that if this were the case, why was the engine battery flat? as I thought the heater has a dedicated battery, the one in front of the water tank?

The Parking Heater runs off the Leisure battery only.
Have you been opening the doors frequently? Every time you do so there are a number of circuits that are energised and remain so for about 5-20 minutes. High pressure fuel pump, courtesy lights and the in car entertainment system etc:.

 

[Mike Currie]

You could end up with 3 flat batteries in the worst case.
If your starter battery is going, and you plug your leisure batteries to the starter battery, they will keep sending current to the starter battery.
It all depends on the state the batteries are in. And I would only do it (no I won't), if the 3 batteries are all exact the same values.

I totally agree. You also run the risk of shorting out the electrics when you plug in the 12v plugs etc

 

[AlanC]

Ah! Thankfully I wasn't camping and the van, a 2011 180 Cali Berghaus, was just in my drive. As far as I knew only the security was live in the vehicle and that had never caused a problem, even over a long period. I went to move the van and it wouldn't start. First time that had happened. I didn't really check anything just plugged it into the mains hook-up and left it to charge. Next day it started fine. 4 days later and same problem but this time, like you, I noticed the heater error indicator flashing on the very top left of the Camping Control Panel. I plugged in the mains hook-up again then tried the heater. Nothing. I then switched the control panel to home and then the heater error light went out. I tried the heater and it works fine. So now there is no error light so I am hoping all is OK. I imagine that the heater had become stuck in the shutdown phase or something and continued to draw power. Can that happen? The other aspect that doesn't make sense is that if this were the case, why was the engine battery flat? as I thought the heater has a dedicated battery, the one in front of the water tank?

The leisure batteries are wired in parallel on the SE and Ocean so both batteries supply all the habitation electrics.

Given the age of your van, in all likelihood, the engine battery is coming to the end of its life. The ability of any battery to hold a charge is reduced as it gets older as it will slowly self-discharge over time, but using the van regularly tops the battery up.

Mine gave up in 2018 which I thought was good for a 2010 battery in a van that was used as a daily drive.

Alan

 

[TripleBee]

Mine gave up in 2018 which I thought was good for a 2010 battery in a van that was used as a daily drive.

I could not live with that!
I use mine as a daily driver, hardly ever charge my batteries.
Started having the feeling my starter battery came to the end of it's life about 2 years ago, but still going.
I think I am in the running for a new battery in the year 2021 or 2022. We'll see.

 

[AlanC]

I could not live with that!
I use mine as a daily driver, hardly ever charge my batteries.
Started having the feeling my starter battery came to the end of it's life about 2 years ago, but still going.
I think I am in the running for a new battery in the year 2021 or 2022. We'll see.

Our van was an ex-rental when we bought so I cannot say what happened to it before our ownership. It was used much less after I retired in 2015, so maybe this was a factor too.

Alan

 

[TripleBee]

I was just kidding.
It might even be better to change my battery now already, but as long as it is still willing to turn on the engine, I can't see a reason why.
We are all lucky if the batteries hold out for 6 years or longer. About 6 years is the 'normal' lifespan of those things.

 

[mountainman]

The leisure batteries are wired in parallel on the SE and Ocean so both batteries supply all the habitation electrics.

Given the age of your van, in all likelihood, the engine battery is coming to the end of its life. The ability of any battery to hold a charge is reduced as it gets older as it will slowly self-discharge over time, but using the van regularly tops the battery up.

Mine gave up in 2018 which I thought was good for a 2010 battery in a van that was used as a daily drive.

Alan

Thanks Alan. I'm sure you are right. I'll know in 2-3 days. Not surprisingly, the van isn't moving at the moment so I'll see if it is flat again. The heater error is now off.

 

[mountainman]

The Parking Heater runs off the Leisure battery only.
Have you been opening the doors frequently? Every time you do so there are a number of circuits that are energised and remain so for about 5-20 minutes. High pressure fuel pump, courtesy lights and the in car entertainment system etc:.

Good to know that opening and shutting doors triggers all sorts of electrical activity. Wouldn't have thought of that. Don't think I have been doing this any more than usual, but then the van isn't moving at the moment. Would I be right in thinking that the heater is also employed by the engine to boost coolant heat on start-up? Sometimes I find it on after start-up. Mostly notice the smell.

 

[WelshGas]

Good to know that opening and shutting doors triggers all sorts of electrical activity. Wouldn't have thought of that. Don't think I have been doing this any more than usual, but then the van isn't moving at the moment. Would I be right in thinking that the heater is also employed by the engine to boost coolant heat on start-up? Sometimes I find it on after start-up. Mostly notice the smell.

There are 2 Diesel Heaters. One is the Coolant Heater, normally a Webasto, and only works at 5c or below, unless adapted.
You should have 2 labels on the Drivers door B pillar area detailing the heaters fitted.

 

[mountainman]

Well, well, one lives and learns. Yes indeed one Eberspacher and one Webasto. I presume the Webasto is connected to the engine battery? I also imagine that if an heater error message is displayed in the camping panel, then that would only apply to the Eberspacher? and thereofre that error can't be responsible for running down my engine battery?

 

[WelshGas]

Well, well, one lives and learns. Yes indeed one Eberspacher and one Webasto. I presume the Webasto is connected to the engine battery? I also imagine that if an heater error message is displayed in the camping panel, then that would only apply to the Eberspacher? and thereofre that error can't be responsible for running down my engine battery?

Yes, that is how they are wired.

 

[mountainman]

Looks like my engine battery needs replacing then. Well it is 9 years old I suppose.

 

[WelshGas]

Looks like my engine battery needs replacing then. Well it is 9 years old I suppose.

More than likely I'm afraid.

 

[WelshGas]

Looks like my engine battery needs replacing then. Well it is 9 years old I suppose.

If you have Bluemotion and Stop/Start then a new engine battery needs to be coded to the vehicle to get the most from it. Easily done and most garages or battery shops should be able to do it.
Common on most modern vehicles.

 

[mountainman]

If you have Bluemotion and Stop/Start then a new engine battery needs to be coded to the vehicle to get the most from it. Easily done and most garages or battery shops should be able to do it.
Common on most modern vehicles.

After charging the van overnight 2 days ago, it started fine in the morning. The heater error message in the camping panel was out, the heater was working fine, starting up and stopping properly, batteries were 100%. 2 days later, after not touching the van at all it won't start, engine battery is flat. OK so I get that I need a new engine battery, probably. However, camping batteries are down to 80%, normally they would be up at at least 90% after two days and the heater error message is back again. Current usage is showing a 0.0 Amps. I have no idea what is going on here.

 

[TripleBee]

Is it still the original starter battery? If so, it probably is dead.
On the other hand, you don't let anything run off the starter battery?
USB plug in the dashboard, lights, radio, .... ?

 

[AlanC]

After charging the van overnight 2 days ago, it started fine in the morning. The heater error message in the camping panel was out, the heater was working fine, starting up and stopping properly, batteries were 100%. 2 days later, after not touching the van at all it won't start, engine battery is flat. OK so I get that I need a new engine battery, probably. However, camping batteries are down to 80%, normally they would be up at at least 90% after two days and the heater error message is back again. Current usage is showing a 0.0 Amps. I have no idea what is going on here.

Take it one step at a time.

The important battery to sort out is the engine one. Get that one replaced and see how you go with the leisure batteries. There are two of these and if you camp on site then hook-up will see you through for the time being.

BTW, I assume there is nothing plugged into the inverter socket behind the passenger seat?
Even just an adaptor plugged in turns the inverter on and this runs directly off the leisure batteries. It will drain them quite quickly over time even if nothing is plugged into the adaptor.

Alan

 

[mountainman]

Take it one step at a time.

The important battery to sort out is the engine one. Get that one replaced and see how you go with the leisure batteries. There are two of these and if you camp on site then hook-up will see you through for the time being.

BTW, I assume there is nothing plugged into the inverter socket behind the passenger seat?
Even just an adaptor plugged in turns the inverter on and this runs directly off the leisure batteries. It will drain them quite quickly over time even if nothing is plugged into the adaptor.

Alan

Thanks. I'll do that. Nothing plugged into the inverter, not even the adaptor. In answer to WelshGas ealier, I don't have stop/start or blue motion but no doubt there is a 'which battery?' section, so I'll have a look at that.