Flat starter battery

[yossarian]

AFAIK The duoracer only charges the secondary battery when the primary is almost full (at float).

You might prefer something like the Votronic 3065 Battery Master - Standby-charger 12V C8451.

Wiring is simpler too.

 

[Azteccamper]

How about fitting a mppt charger (eg Victron) to your starter battery so when on site (or anywhere) you can just plug your solar panel straight into it - giving yourself a simple plug and go solution?

 

[kave]

My t6 is a 2016 and I replaced both batteries last year, and mine has never been flat. Its a cheap solution to avoid problems. You need a new battery.
I have a device connected by the cigarette lighters plus pole which trickle charges the engine battery from the solar charged second battery. It works really well

 

[dspuk]

I’m getting some really useful advice and information in this thread. Thanks.

I’ve been looking at @Roger Donoghue site for a solar charger upgrade and found this.



It sounds like just what I need.

I swapped my Victron to this one to get starter trickle charge. The conditions for it to do this are very tight to the point Roger warned me it would never be enough to recharge the starter if it was being over used. Guide on here somewhere. I ended up routing behind the sink.

He was right.

Seems to be enough though for long periods standing on drive so good enough for me.

 

[Georgeo]

During our year away I don’t believe that we ever spent more than three days without driving.

The first (non stupidity caused) flat was when we were camped for two weeks in southern Spain one Easter. Subsequently, and until this latest week in the Netherlands, if we hadn’t driven for more than 3 or 4 days I had run the engine until the stop/start stopped the engine.

So I think the ideal solution will be a new battery, plus a new solar charger and some clever wiring under the passenger seat to allow the solar panels on the roof to trickle charge the starter battery.

A temporary solution will be to trickle charge the engine battery (either the current one or a new one) with my folding solar panel and its cheap solar charger.

It’s only an urban legend that 2 bananas near a solar panel help it charge. The Mythbusters team disproved it a few years ago.

 

[andyinluton]

I'm struggling with the logic of people suggesting spending £600 on solar panels just to delay spending £150 on a new battery.

 

[larrylamb]

I'm struggling with the logic of people suggesting spending £600 on solar panels just to delay spending £150 on a new battery.

Yup, just replaced our Golf 150 diesel stop/start battery after 8 years and 100k. I agree the battery needs changing first. Should solve the problem.

 

[TripleBee]

I'm struggling with the logic of people suggesting spending £600 on solar panels just to delay spending £150 on a new battery.

If you camp off grid, or don't want to pay 5 euros per night on a campsite for electricity (year after year), you are cheaper off with solar panels.

 

[Amarillo]

I'm struggling with the logic of people suggesting spending £600 on solar panels just to delay spending £150 on a new battery.

The decision to replace our starter battery has been made. The discussion now is about whether it is worth continuously trickle charging it with solar.

We already have the solar panels:
220 watts on the roof
100 watts folding and portable

Trickle charging the battery from the 100w folding and portable panel is a zero cost option, but needs setting up each time.

Trickle charging from the 220w installed on the roof requires a solar charger upgrade and some wiring, but should be fit and forget. The charger upgrade would be about £70 plus wiring.

The further suggestion is that if I am going to trickle charge the engine battery to test it out with the old battery which will be chucked/recycled anyway, before messing around with a brand new battery. This makes perfect sense.

I’m anticipating the new AGM battery to cost in the region of £250. I’ll be delighted if there’s a suitable one for £150.

 

[California Rob]

During our year away I don’t believe that we ever spent more than three days without driving.

The first (non stupidity caused) flat was when we were camped for two weeks in southern Spain one Easter. Subsequently, and until this latest week in the Netherlands, if we hadn’t driven for more than 3 or 4 days I had run the engine until the stop/start stopped the engine.

So I think the ideal solution will be a new battery, plus a new solar charger and some clever wiring under the passenger seat to allow the solar panels on the roof to trickle charge the starter battery.

A temporary solution will be to trickle charge the engine battery (either the current one or a new one) with my folding solar panel and its cheap solar charger.

I like the way you put the bananas there so we could get a sense of scale

 

[yossarian]

Trickle charging from the 220w installed on the roof requires a solar charger upgrade

Or the £40ish device I pointed out.

 

[TripleBee]

The decision to replace our starter battery has been made. The discussion now is about whether it is worth continuously trickle charging it with solar.

We already have the solar panels:
220 watts on the roof
100 watts folding and portable

Trickle charging the battery from the 100w folding and portable panel is a zero cost option, but needs setting up each time.

Trickle charging from the 220w installed on the roof requires a solar charger upgrade and some wiring, but should be fit and forget. The charger upgrade would be about £70 plus wiring.

The further suggestion is that if I am going to trickle charge the engine battery to test it out with the old battery which will be chucked/recycled anyway, before messing around with a brand new battery. This makes perfect sense.

I’m anticipating the new AGM battery to cost in the region of £250. I’ll be delighted if there’s a suitable one for £150.

Certainly, before you install your new battery, find the best solution for you to charge your starter battery in the way you like it most (dual battery charger, fit and forget).
And if you don't want to keep charging your starter battery all day long, buy a switch from VW (for example a switch for flashing lights) so you can put them on or off.
Oh, wait, you have a T6? I don't know if you can buy a single switch like for the T5.
Maybe try this partnumber: 7D094332701C
How does your dashboard look like, for space for extra buttons?

 

[kave]

I have this device connected with the plus poles of two cigarette plugs, one on the dash and to the leisure battery behind the seat. 27£ https://www.amazon.se/VOTRONIC-3065...4&psc=1&mcid=c4186fb0aa4037959100d1e6499ce4e3

 

[MyrtleMoo]

I have this device connected with the plus poles of two cigarette plugs, one on the dash and to the leisure battery behind the seat. 27£ https://www.amazon.se/VOTRONIC-3065...4&psc=1&mcid=c4186fb0aa4037959100d1e6499ce4e3

I've gone for the same option : https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00NVCRIH2/?tag=vwcalifornia-21

Not had to use it yet, but hoped it was a handy and cheap get-out-of-jail option as I've got solar on the leisure batteries already and the electric sliding door sucking the life out of the engine battery (as an aside on the door - I didn't choose it, I do like it, but will probably end up regretting it). Happy for someone to tell me this won't work if they've already tried it.

 

[Amarillo]

As a mid-term solution to the problem of my starter battery flattening when camping for five days or longer I am going to attach a battery to Anderson lead to my starter battery.

I am also upgrading my solar charger to a dual battery solar charger. This will deliver 1amp to the starter battery once the leisure battery is charged. Sufficient, I hope, to prevent the starter battery from draining when camping.

For now, as a mid term measure, the starter battery will not be permanently connected to the solar charger, only while camping via a 5m cable from the charger in the boot tool compartment to under the bonnet. Certainly not ideal, but functional.

My question to the group is this: is it perfectly safe to attach the black ring terminal to the -ve battery terminal? Or should the black ring terminal be attached to earth as you would if jump starting?

I’m pretty sure it is safe as it will only carry one amp, but I’d rather check and look ignorant than not check and be sorry for not checking later.


I will test the system this summer with the old battery when camping before replacing the battery.

My eventual aim is to permanently connect the solar charger to the starter battery via the cables under the front passenger seat.

 

[kave]

If you mean that you will connect the black cable directly to the battery so yes. Connect the red to plus but make sure you have a fuse on the plus side.
In an ideal world everything should be connected as close to the battery poles as possible

 

[yossarian]

is it perfectly safe to attach the black ring terminal to the -ve battery terminal? Or should the black ring terminal be attached to earth as you would if jump starting?

The latter option is preferable. You can see you have an IBS on your battery negative pole: charging "behind this device's back" is a potential source of lots of annoying problems.

 

[Amarillo]

The latter option is preferable. You can see you have an IBS on your battery negative pole: Charging "behind this device's back" is a potential source of lots of annoying problems.

It took some searching to discover that IBS didn’t mean “irritable bowel syndrome”.

So I should attach negative to the engine block somewhere to avoid a potential problem with the “intelligent battery sensor”?

 

[Amarillo]

Yes, will be fine. My solar charger was connected directly to my leisure battery (fuse on +).


Or get one of these, no need to open the bonnet. Will take excess leisure and trickle charge the engine battery. (One end in dash engine 12v outlet, the other in dash leisure 12v outlet).

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With four of us in the van, including two curious boys, I want to avoid leads trailing across the inside and plugging into cigar lighter sockets.

 

[m10chkcalifornia]

It took some searching to discover that IBS didn’t mean “irritable bowel syndrome”.

So I should attach negative to the engine block somewhere to avoid a potential problem with the “intelligent battery sensor”?

Yes - find any solid paint free point on engine - that will do the trick.

 

[yossarian]

attach negative to the engine block somewhere

Yes, any suitable chassis ground. Alternatively the same electrical connections are available under the seat. where the split charge relay lives.

 

[Amarillo]

Yes, any suitable chassis ground. Alternatively the same electrical connections are available under the seat. where the split charge relay lives.

Will this suffice (circled in orange) given that that the eyelet leads are so short?

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

Clean the bolt and the area of metal with fine emery paper before fixing, use a crinkle or star washer between metal face and crimp eyelet, tighten bolt and put a dab of vaseline petroleum jelly over connection to inhibit water ingress and corrosion.

 

[Amarillo]

Clean the bolt and the area of metal with fine emery paper before fixing, use a crinkle or star washer between metal face and crimp eyelet, tighten bolt and put a dab of vaseline petroleum jelly over connection to inhibit water ingress and corrosion.

Thanks. I have followed your recommendations, and have now fitted and tested the Anderson connector with a 12v led light. It works. I’ve also put in a 10amp fuse on the +ve connection.

I don’t yet have the upgraded solar charger, but do have the 5m Anderson lead. I am happy to report that it will extend externally from the boot tool box, out through the tailgate, above the unused kador attachment rail and then into the bonnet, all unobtrusive and easy to attach.

I’m so glad I asked what I thought was a stupid question about connecting to the -ve battery pole.

 

[andyinluton]

Thanks. I have followed your recommendations, and have now fitted and tested the Anderson connector with a 12v led light. It works. I’ve also put in a 10amp fuse on the +ve connection.

Where have you put the fuse on the positive lead? my preference on any lead that could supply power from either end would be to use two fuses, one at each end. If you do only put it one end I would go between the Anderson connector & the battery.