Gas system check

[Jodalo]

Hello, guess it is OK to follow up on this previous thread on the subject of gas servicing for an Ocean. We are looking to have a gas service on a 2016 model. Our VW dealer is not interested and the nearby Motor Home habitation specialists all say they cover the wrong sort of Gas. Conclusion seems to be that we need to pick an engineer with LPG qualifications from the Gas Safe Register. Anyone have any thoughts on the subject such as to whether they need Cali experience or an idea of how much would be reasonable to pay please?

Be interested to find out what ‘special gas’ the Motorhome dealer specialises in.

 

[trailtrotters]

Many thanks The Tall Luthier, very helpful

 

[ArunAlec]

Hello, guess it is OK to follow up on this previous thread on the subject of gas servicing for an Ocean. We are looking to have a gas service on a 2016 model. Our VW dealer is not interested and the nearby Motor Home habitation specialists all say they cover the wrong sort of Gas. Conclusion seems to be that we need to pick an engineer with LPG qualifications from the Gas Safe Register. Anyone have any thoughts on the subject such as to whether they need Cali experience or an idea of how much would be reasonable to pay please?

Campersales prices as a guide …..

Campervan & Motorhome Services

Full on-site services for your campervan by qualified technicians including the all important habitation servicing and gas safety check.

www.campersales.co.uk

I’d contact any local conversion companies and see if they either do testing or can recommend someone. Changing the gas hose and valve is something you should be able to do yourself (I think the club shop sell them). The hose should have an replacement date label.

 

[ArunAlec]

Be interested to find out what ‘special gas’ the Motorhome dealer specialises in.

“Motorhome” and “Gas” normally generates some interesting posts about friends of friends knowing someone whose next door neighbour was gassed in their motorhome whilst asleep in a French Aire. Woke up with headaches to find all their money and jewellery stolen.

 

[flying banana]

you don't need a gas check and you don't need an 'expert' to test such a simple system. check the dates on the pipes and use a tin of leak detector spray on the connections. job is done. piece of p1ss. ialso have a 2016 plate and don't bother checking mine aprt from changing the bottle

 

[Wildcamper]

Be interested to find out what ‘special gas’ the Motorhome dealer specialises in.

My insurance, non California, requires a gas inspection certificate every year. I take my conversion back to the maker in Minehead each spring and they do the inspection replace, yes can DIY but then no certificate, where necessary and issue the certificate £75.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I don't check mine. The rubber tubes could degrade, but they are not in daylight at all or exposed to heat. I think the design of the bottle inside the water tank with the black lid screwed tight and the bottle regulator closed, with the drain hole to outside of the van feels quite clever and foolproof design.

Finally I remember a conversation I had with a T4 Westfalia owning friend, when I was worried about gas leaking possibilities and our baby asleep in the back. He said the gas isn't poisonous as such and would only kill you if there was so much escaping that there wasn't any air to breathe.

I am fully prepared to be called an idiot and am not advising anyone do the same. Owned the van 13 years. I have just looked at the Campersales prices. Seem reasonable. I would be interested in knowing what from above is incorrect/stupid/possibly lethal.

 

[Jodalo]

I don't check mine. The rubber tubes could degrade, but they are not in daylight at all or exposed to heat. I think the design of the bottle inside the water tank with the black lid screwed tight and the bottle regulator closed, with the drain hole to outside of the van feels quite clever and foolproof design.

Finally I remember a conversation I had with a T4 Westfalia owning friend, when I was worried about gas leaking possibilities and our baby asleep in the back. He said the gas isn't poisonous as such and would only kill you if there was so much escaping that there wasn't any air to breathe.

I am fully prepared to be called an idiot and am not advising anyone do the same. Owned the van 13 years. I have just looked at the Campersales prices. Seem reasonable. I would be interested in knowing what from above is incorrect/stupid/possibly lethal.

I think that would be the least of the problem, even in a relatively low volume the gas could cause a massive explosion if ignited.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I think that would be the least of the problem, even in a relatively low volume the gas could cause a massive explosion if ignited.

Fair point, although does anyone have a "friend of friends whose next door neighbour" blew themselves up? to paraphrase ArunAlec.

 

[Steve1]

I don't check mine. The rubber tubes could degrade, but they are not in daylight at all or exposed to heat. I think the design of the bottle inside the water tank with the black lid screwed tight and the bottle regulator closed, with the drain hole to outside of the van feels quite clever and foolproof design.

Finally I remember a conversation I had with a T4 Westfalia owning friend, when I was worried about gas leaking possibilities and our baby asleep in the back. He said the gas isn't poisonous as such and would only kill you if there was so much escaping that there wasn't any air to breathe.

I am fully prepared to be called an idiot and am not advising anyone do the same. Owned the van 13 years. I have just looked at the Campersales prices. Seem reasonable. I would be interested in knowing what from above is incorrect/stupid/possibly lethal.

I think with these things it's what eases your own worries or conscience. I don't thing there is much worry of poisoning as you mentioned but more of explosion if the van fills with gas then something electrical i.e. the fridge ignites it. However the design is supposed to prevent that by having the sealed container and the dropout hole in the bottom of it. And as has been described in other places here if the over pressure valve on the regulator trips it seems to be designed to dump all of the gas out in the sealed container and down the drop out hole anyway so I guess the designer thought that was safe.
The gas pipes can last many many years, I have had portable.cookers with pipes that are decades old. But I did always turn off the regulator when not using so it wouldn't leak when I wasn't there or was asleep.
All this said as a personal thing for a gas connection which you turn on and potentially leave on for a week while not attended I personally feel more comfortable checking the hose and connections here and there with a gas leak spray and eventually feel guilty enough to replace them occasionally.

 

[Wildcamper]

Interesting thoughts. The blue bottle gas is butane, that is C4H12 having a molecular mass of 60 atomic units. The butane in the bottle is liquid. So 60grams (one mole, not the furry sort!) when vaporised will occupy 22.4 litres. A fully bottle is 5kg? So that is 5000/60 = 83.3 moles. If this all vaporises the volume taken up is 83.3 x 22.4 = 1867 litres. If this all vented into the van the oxygen concentration would probably fall to below a life sustaining value. Just because a gas is non-poisonous does not mean it won't kill you. Plenty of examples of walkers on volcanoes waking into high concentrations of carbon dioxide and being found dead.

 

[flying banana]

Interesting thoughts. The blue bottle gas is butane, that is C4H12 having a molecular mass of 60 atomic units. The butane in the bottle is liquid. So 60grams (one mole, not the furry sort!) when vaporised will occupy 22.4 litres. A fully bottle is 5kg? So that is 5000/60 = 83.3 moles. If this all vaporises the volume taken up is 83.3 x 22.4 = 1867 litres. If this all vented into the van the oxygen concentration would probably fall to below a life sustaining value. Just because a gas is non-poisonous does not mean it won't kill you. Plenty of examples of walkers on volcanoes waking into high concentrations of carbon dioxide and being found dead.

It would sit on the floor though wouldn't it as its heavier than air. Then it would all fall out of the van when you opened the door. There really is no need to go to the far end of a fart with these gas checks and worries about nothing. Same with co2 alarms and other unnecessary nonsense. It's like paying to have the burglar alarm at home 'serviced'. Waste of money

 

[trailtrotters]

Thank you very much for your useful comments everyone.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Interesting thoughts. The blue bottle gas is butane, that is C4H12 having a molecular mass of 60 atomic units. The butane in the bottle is liquid. So 60grams (one mole, not the furry sort!) when vaporised will occupy 22.4 litres. A fully bottle is 5kg? So that is 5000/60 = 83.3 moles. If this all vaporises the volume taken up is 83.3 x 22.4 = 1867 litres. If this all vented into the van the oxygen concentration would probably fall to below a life sustaining value. Just because a gas is non-poisonous does not mean it won't kill you. Plenty of examples of walkers on volcanoes waking into high concentrations of carbon dioxide and being found dead.

I think the volcano is quite an extreme comparison. There are certainly people who die in tents after putting BBQs in their porches.

 

[Wildcamper]

I think the volcano is quite an extreme comparison. There are certainly people who die in tents after putting BBQs in their porches.

That is because carbon monoxide is very poisonous at very low concentrations since it deactivates heamoglobin in the blood stream. Carbon dioxide is not poisonous it displaces the oxygen in the air hence you die from lack of oxygen. A large volume of butane, not poisonous, would also displace oxygen just like CO2.

 

[Steve1]

That is because carbon monoxide is very poisonous at very low concentrations since it deactivates heamoglobin in the blood stream. Carbon dioxide is not poisonous it displaces the oxygen in the air hence you die from lack of oxygen. A large volume of butane, not poisonous, would also displace oxygen just like CO2.

The theory is there and certainly shouldn't be dismissed completely when deciding your opinion, but I think it would have to be an incredibly fast release of gas to displace the oxygen. As well as the gas container drop outs specifically designed to release the gas, the van has many drain holes out of the bottom, the floors and sills all have water drains to let out condensation from the inner panels as well as the many inadvertent gaps. These would be releasing the gas as it was leaked making the displacement less severe.