Go / no go decision time...help!

[Steve39]

After 3 years of intermittent lurking here and too many should we shouldn’t we moments of doubt, the time has come to make a final decision on the Cali. We have some cash, the kids are growing up fast (already 10 and 7!) so feels like go for it now or forget it and move on.

Questions remaining are Beach or SE? And if we go Beach 2 or 3 seater?

So just looking for thoughts/opinions from the experts based on real life ownership…

What we need it for.

Daily drive - about 30 mile roundtrip commute into Bristol.

General family use - kids taxi service, possibly with a couple of friends on board, trips to Ikea/the tip.

Day van – this is important, we do lots of days out, beaches, walking, cycling, picnics, NT properties that sort of thing. Like the idea of using the van for ‘van-nics’.

Short camping trips – this is going to sound weird but we are not big campers, love the idea but more likely to find us in a Featherdown farm safari tent than an Outwell 4 berth. However, I like the idea of being able to get away for a night or two especially on my own or with one or both of the kids as they get older (yeah to father/son bonding trips).

Family holidays – we have plans for some grand tours around Europe over the next few years, combination of camping (odd night), hotels, cottages.

Based on the above, I am fairly sure we want a Beach and not an SE. I love the idea of the SE and can see me getting one later on, perhaps when I have the time and space to use it to its full potential. Unless I’ve missed the point of the Beach, I think it ticks all of the above boxes?

So 2 or 3 seat version? This is where it gets harder, as I’m getting stuck on the pros and cons of each.

2 seater – it seems more of a camper/day van, the bed is lower and more comfortable (important), extra storage in living space with box and large under seat drawer. However, it only seats 4 unless I add an extra seat (which then takes up space and is possibly a hassle to remove), the lower bed means less boot space and non-flexible board.

3 seater – carries 5 with option to add a seat for rare occasions we might need 6 on board, more boot space. Cons – less camper like feel, higher/shorter and more uncomfortable bed.

Ultimately neither is perfect. So a few practical questions.

Is the bed on the 3 seater comfortable enough for a fussy sleeper? Is it long enough?

Is the boot on the 2 seater big enough for short breaks camping, longer non-camping holidays?

Is removing/installing the extra seat, in either version, easy enough to make it worthwhile?

Apologies for the long post – we are on the cusp here so need to iron out these niggling doubts…



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[Max-Felix]

Hi Steve,

We are in a very similar position with kids and likely usage. I've researched this ad nauseum this past month scouring the net far and wide for info, pics, set up, spent ages at the VW dealer with family in and out of vans and you need to do this with your kids trying all the options.

I will add as a younger guy with my wife we spent 6 months in one hit living in a T3 with 'daytime' type conversion and nothing has changed in our thoughts that for us that will always work best.

Have a look at Owen's topic here for thoughts on why a set up like this works - in short, full panoramic views out the van/windows all round, wider bed for the head end 2 ft where you need it most, removable pod but keeping the essentials of the kitchen, etc, etc.

http://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/storage-pod-on-multiflex-board.6637/

I'd definitely go the two seater - lots of topics on here discussing 2 vs 3 or Beach vs SE but consensus is the 2 seater Beach is more of a camper/day van and the three more of a people carrier/day van.

Like Owen, I will fit a pod in mine (see the topic for more) - I've really researched this a lot and come up with a nice simple design that in many ways replicates the SE lower kitchen unit really and is easy to make with the proper lightweight ply, radiused corners, sliding alu composite doors etc - happy to share plans when I've drawn it out - ended up a bit simpler than the drawing I did on Owen's topic. With a Waeco portable fridge and Smev sink, water etc, portable cooker for in/out usage the whole thing will come in under £700 including getting the specialist ply cut by the supplier.

Basically a 2 seat Beach like this gives you the flat, wide bed, all the kitchen you need, lots of space inside, panoramic views and loses a huge chunk of money against the SE with it's 'fragile' VW built camping fit out (our SMG VW Cali experts words not mine!), also loses the electric roof, central control panel potential issues etc. You have total flexibility with space inside and can easily remove the kitchen when required.

 

[Max-Felix]

Forgot to say, as regards fifth seat - this would be the best option if/when you need it and leave in garage or whatever when you don't.

The inflexible multi-flex board is not as handy as the rack in the SE which does not need the vertical brackets from comparing them but I have seen simple mods where people have hinged it at the front to enable it to be more flexible. I would do something like this or mod it/replace it with a more easily removable board or one that is less intrusive.

Oh, and I had a back to back drive in a 140 DSG and a 140 manual yesterday, I also drove a 114 last week.

Again loads of DSG vs manual topics on here but as an auto fan (proper torque converters preferably) I would say the DSG was much nicer and does suit the van better. The hesitation or RAB DSG issues are easily overcome by adapting driving style. I'd forget the 114 hp though, it lacks a bit even in an 'empty' van.

 

[Steve39]

Thanks Max, I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who has struggled with this and found the research frustrating. And of course that has just got harder with the T5 to T6 changeover.

The irony is that over the last couple of years the reason for not going ahead with a Cali was financial. Now I can actually afford one and have started looking in more detail it has got a lot harder.

At this point I should make a disclaimer - this isn’t all VW’s fault. I’m basically looking at the Beach options and trying to work out how they will work for me in a million and one different scenarios. It is truly amazing that the Beach works in most of them and maybe I’m expecting too much of it!

It might help if I give a specific example of why I’m getting frustrated. So as well as a daily driver (tick), I want to use it as day van and an occasional camper. This is where it gets hard. So I’m thinking for day van/overnight use I might want a cool box/fridge. Sounds easy…but I want to be able to secure it in the vehicle (no DIY involved) and have the option of keeping it in the front or the boot. The VW cool box doesn’t fit under the board in the 2 seat version and nor does a Waeco/Maxxcamp floor fixing combination. So with the 2 seat version am I already restricted to keeping the fridge in the living space…and even then will it fit between the storage box/passenger’s seat…and if it has to go behind the driver’s seat is there a power socket handy to plug into?

So that brings me back to the 3 seat version…but will I be able to sleep on that bed…and does it feel as much like a camper/day van…and what about options for adding kitchen pods later…and so on...

I have read the thread about pods and really like the stuff people are doing…but I can’t build them myself. I love the look of the Slidepods, especially for day van use…but haven't yet got my head around losing space in the boot for overnight trips. I am going to give Jonny a call to let him explain this aspect, so might be an option.

In an ideal world I’d be able to hire a beach for a day or two but not even easy to find anywhere that offers this.

As I’m writing this I’m starting to realise that perhaps my procrastination was never about the money but more about the lack of a perfect solution set against my unrealistic expectations. Maybe I should stop thinking and just go for it...but get the wrong option and that's an expensive mistake.

Maybe I should google Marco Polo Activity? No wait, that’s not a VW.

Oh and it will be DSG...that was the easy bit



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[Max-Felix]

Loads of small removable pod options out there

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=v...X&ved=0CCAQsARqFQoTCN2Lxvu278cCFfJu2wodCMcBNQ

and a portable Waeco fridge like this below (the VW 'cool box' is not well reviewed and not a proper fridge) - you can get smaller ones which will go in the boot too

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SATJR20/?tag=eliteelect-21

is easy to secure anywhere with the rails with some tie downs:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171337750549?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

All campers are compromises, you just have to go with what works best.

 

[Rich20]

We have a 3 Beach with 3 rear seats and cannot praise it enough for flexibility. With regards the bed, it is much more contoured than the 2 seat version. we have got around this by using a mattress from Nick at Comfortz and a cheap mattress topper from Dunelm Mills. This gives us a lovely bed and comfortable seats so a winner all round. The mattress and topper fold up and live on the multiflex. We also have a Waeco fridge which is strapped down in the rear luggage space under the multiflex which makes it very easy to remove.

 

[Jennydddd]

It's sounds as if you have more or less made up your mind who wins the SE v beach competition, but a couple of observations from an SE owner. Firstly, we have just been away for a month and used the hob in the van only twice. I enjoy cooking outside and dont like the van getting smelly so most of the time we cook on our Cadac Safari outside. The other thing is that our 7 year old is very well trained and knows not to touch any of the fragile stuff inside the van - like fridge lids and the hob. Sounds obsessive but I wouldn't like to have other children in the SE fiddling with everything.

Good luck making your choice

 

[Bigted]

We have a 3 seat bench beach (3 kids) and find it a brilliant car/van/camper and run it as our only vehicle. We moved from an MPV (Toyota Verso) and find it a much better MPV than the Toyota with the ability to sleep in it! We can all sleep in comfort in the van with the use of the comfort mattress (feel similar to the bed + home). The downstairs bed is wider and a little shorter than a double be is fine (I'm almost 6ft). The seat better as a seat that the 2 seater as it is sculptured rather that flat.

 

[Life's a beach]

Steve, we had similar deliberations and went for a Beach for reasons of budget and versatility. Also letting our 7 year old twins loose in an SE just didn't bear thinking about! Ours is a 2 seat bench 114 and is working out really well as a do everything vehicle for a mix of commuting, family days out, weekends away and camping trips. The 2 seater means I can fit a surfboard or bike inside alongside the seats, which was an important consideration for me.

We are getting a Slidepod made for it at the moment and have the first trip with it planned for next weekend so will let you know how we get on. We are based in Dorset, you are welcome to drop by and check it out if you are in the area.

 

[Steve39]

Thanks all for the replies. First time I've posted today but been reading this forum for a while and knew I'd get some useful input

Max-Felix - have to admit I'd been focusing on fridges with floor fitting systems. Didn't know you could get lashing points to fit into the floor rail, that definitely opens up some more options. And of course you are right about compromises, I just need to work out where I want to make them.

Rich / Bigted - the 3 seat bed is 185cm long, sounds like you both find it OK for length...I'm only 5.9 and the wife is 5.1 so perhaps I can rule that worry out. If you don't mind me asking what's the max number of nights you'd want to spend sleeping on it? Don't reckon I'd ever need to do more than 2 or 3, aim is for this to be a day van first, occasional camper second.

Jenny - 99% sure I'm going to go for the Beach, ruggedness and simplicity are big draws over the SE as well as the type of use we have in mind. My 7 year old will tear an SE to bits in minutes!

...and Life's a beach, I've been looking at the work Johnny is doing on yours with green eyes, the pod looks amazing and love how he's coordinated with the white van. My only concern, which I'm going to have a chat with him about, is the loss of storage in the boot. I can see how this is brilliant for day van use but where to put everything else when you go away overnight? Notice you have roof bars so presume you might use a roof box? Would be really interested to hear how you got on after the trip, hope you enjoy the new toy

This has been really helpful in getting my thoughts together. So far it's definitely a Beach, so now to decide between 2 and 3 seat. I've got a few more ideas what I might want in terms of items I need and possible ways to get everything in the van. Even got some ideas on pods which I'll try and post in the other thread.

Thanks again and happy to hear anyone else's experiences.



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[Steve39]

Oh forgot a couple of questions. I know there's a thread or three on fridges for the Beach but not sure I've really found an answer to this one.

Has anyone with the two seat version found a good fridge that runs of 12v or the hook up, and fits between the end of the storage box and the back of the passenger seat, and somehow fixes to the floor. Not sure but I think there might be a metal loop at the very end of the rail that could be used to tie it down?

The other is hopefully simple. Where are the 12v sockets located?

Been 12 months since I looked at a Beach in the flesh and none locally to go see at the moment.


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[Life's a beach]

Thanks Steve, cant wait to pick up the van and test out the pod . We used the van in its standard form over the summer for camping trips of up to 5 nights with a family of four. After a couple of trips we found what works for us is to use the space under the multiflex board for boxes of camping and beach stuff, luggage and drive away awning goes on top of the multiflex with a cargo net over to keep it secure, and the bedding goes on top of the storage unit next to the bench seat. If the pod works out as planned, we wont actually loose any storage space, just use the same space but in a much more convenient package.

We have a small 12v fridge which is pretty basic but fits nicely between the passenger seat and side storage unit and is fine for beer/wine/milk on shorter trips. For longer trips we have a cool box that sits on the multiflex for the journey then goes in the awning when we are on-site.

Hope this helps!

 

[sandalfarm]

we have a 3 seater beach and havnt used a topper when sleeping the seat/bed is contoured but softer than the ground when we were camping, don't really use a wardrobe at home, most clothing is fast wicking fabric and is in drawers and we buy small quantities of food on holiday as going to markets is a different experience to that at home so don't need a fridge, the 3 seater gives a wider bed

 

[shaun5]

We purchased a 3 inch deep mattress topper off eBay for £40 odd quid. Brilliant. As comfortable as our bed at home. No limits to the amount of nights to sleep on it. The only downside is that the head height becomes a little compromised as the 3 seat bed is higher than the 2 seat.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Another 3 seater Beach owner here and fast approaching 3 years of ownership. Seriously, the 3 seater is so much more useful than the 2 (sorry 2 seat crew) it been brilliant as a bed (with mattress topper) and having the third seat has been a God-send at times.
I've had 5 of us travel over to Chamonix earlier in the year with a trunk full of clothes, ski boots and skis and still had room for more stuff.
Just do it, you won't regret it.
Btw, steer clear of the 180. It's to complicated and costs a fortune to repair if it goes wrong. The 140bhp is spot on and can be remapped if you really need the extra power, although I doubt you will

 

[Georgiegirl]

A few thoughts from a 2 seat bench owner. You do get 2 large additional storage areas in this model - the large drawer under the seat, and a cupboard where the kitchen would be on an SE (makes the rest of the full width bed on this model). We find these invaluable for keeping all the 'needed inside' bits in the van - internal blinds, flexilight, slippers, waterproof coats, walking boots, books, games etc), plus things like the hook-up cable. This might help with storage if you are considering the slidepod.
We only go on short 1-2 night camping trips and have a small fridge which fits between the drivers and passenger seat next to the hand-brake. We find this holds enough for what we need, although we tend to eat out at night rather than cook meals.
To clarify we are a couple with no children so I appreciate that you need more seating than us! But I just wanted to let you know the pros and give you an alternative fridge view
Good luck in making your decision - I'm sure either version will give you hours of fun!

 

[2into1]

Also the two seat bench model retains the option of taking out the storage box and fitting a side kitchen / wardrobe (maxcamp?) and making it into an SE without many of the SE frailties.
I think this may become popular and may help the residuals of 2 seater Beaches. (Not a lot of analysis has been done on Beach residuals..... The super residuals of campervans and motorhomes tend to be driven by fully equipped vans rather than seated vans with roof beds).

 

[cleve]

We have the 3 seater and use a memory foam topper which is great to make the bed comfortable, takes up little space folded on the multiflex and acts as a bottom sheet/crumb barrier when the bed is made and the children have squashed breadsticks/rubbed sand into the seats in the daytime!

I can't imagine not having the flexibility of the larger storage area in the boot as seeing my parents SE the space under the multiflex is very low and deep so they're constantly pulling boxes out trying to access something they have left at the back of the area under the multiflex. We have a collection of plastic boxes and hold alls that fit the depth perfectly and make organising the space in the 3 seater really easy and it's surprising how much you need when touring!



We have an additional seat which is great for extra passengers but it's such a pain to use we avoid putting it in if we can squeeze everyone onto the exisiting seats. There are 5 of us though so had to go for a 3 seater option but can't see we would have had a 2 seater with fewer children having tried a few T5 configurations over the years.

I'm happy to post/send you pics of our setup if you need. We have the reimo pantry unit which is perfect to store essentials and means we always have somewhere to wash our hands and make a cuppa, keeps boot space free for storage and the waeco fridge fits nicely on the floor next to it and we don't secure it in any way to the floor.

VW will hire out their vehicles for you to try before you buy which sounds like it might help you make up your mind.

 

[Marigold]

After 3 years of intermittent lurking here and too many should we shouldn’t we moments of doubt, the time has come to make a final decision on the Cali. We have some cash, the kids are growing up fast (already 10 and 7!) so feels like go for it now or forget it and move on.

Questions remaining are Beach or SE? And if we go Beach 2 or 3 seater?

So just looking for thoughts/opinions from the experts based on real life ownership…

What we need it for.

Daily drive - about 30 mile roundtrip commute into Bristol.

General family use - kids taxi service, possibly with a couple of friends on board, trips to Ikea/the tip.

Day van – this is important, we do lots of days out, beaches, walking, cycling, picnics, NT properties that sort of thing. Like the idea of using the van for ‘van-nics’.

Short camping trips – this is going to sound weird but we are not big campers, love the idea but more likely to find us in a Featherdown farm safari tent than an Outwell 4 berth. However, I like the idea of being able to get away for a night or two especially on my own or with one or both of the kids as they get older (yeah to father/son bonding trips).

Family holidays – we have plans for some grand tours around Europe over the next few years, combination of camping (odd night), hotels, cottages.

Based on the above, I am fairly sure we want a Beach and not an SE. I love the idea of the SE and can see me getting one later on, perhaps when I have the time and space to use it to its full potential. Unless I’ve missed the point of the Beach, I think it ticks all of the above boxes?

So 2 or 3 seat version? This is where it gets harder, as I’m getting stuck on the pros and cons of each.

2 seater – it seems more of a camper/day van, the bed is lower and more comfortable (important), extra storage in living space with box and large under seat drawer. However, it only seats 4 unless I add an extra seat (which then takes up space and is possibly a hassle to remove), the lower bed means less boot space and non-flexible board.

3 seater – carries 5 with option to add a seat for rare occasions we might need 6 on board, more boot space. Cons – less camper like feel, higher/shorter and more uncomfortable bed.

Ultimately neither is perfect. So a few practical questions.

Is the bed on the 3 seater comfortable enough for a fussy sleeper? Is it long enough?

Is the boot on the 2 seater big enough for short breaks camping, longer non-camping holidays?

Is removing/installing the extra seat, in either version, easy enough to make it worthwhile?

Apologies for the long post – we are on the cusp here so need to iron out these niggling doubts…



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We spent a long time weighing up the 2 or 3 seat bench option and decided on the 3 seat for overall, long terms flexibility for everyday and holiday use. Put simply, what happens when the kids want to bring a mate (or Grandma) along?
In terms of sleeping, there is without doubt more involved with the 3 seat bench in terms of creating the bed in the first place but it only takes a couple of times to get the knack. We ordered the VW comfort mattress on the advice of the dealer, which is contoured to the seat and results in a very flat, very comfortable bed that we all sleep brilliantly on without the need for a topper or similar.
On thing we didn't actually realise is that the bed is higher with the 3 seat option due to the way in which the seat works but this hasn't been a problem for us (with roof bed up or down). In fact, I actually really like the fact that your head is level with the base of the window, particularly when waking up and opening the blind next to a great view!
The boot space with the 3 seat bench is as big as you want it to be. We slide the whole thing forward for trips away to carry all the camping / holiday gear and then further back the rest of the time. I've seen mixed reviews of the multiflex board and its inflexibility but I don't find it to be anything other than perfectly functional.
Hope that helps.

 

[Steve39]

Thanks everyone. Asking for advice on forums is often a waste of time but not here. Supporters of both the 2 and 3 seat option but balanced feedback based on what I want the van to do. I think you've confirmed most of the positives in each and put my mind at ease on some of the doubts I had on the cons.

So have I made a decision? Sort of...

The SE is out. Too fragile, to much stuff to carry around day to day, too much to go wrong, and too much of a campervan - I think we'd feel guilty and pretty daft loading it up for a week staying in a cottage in the Lake District

The 2 seater is also out for now. One reason and one reason only - too few seats. Based on how we use our car we will need 5 seats fairly regularly and from what I've seen and read the 5th seat just isn't ideal in the SE/2 seat bench layout e.g. we could take grandma along but it won't be much good as a day van with her sat in the middle of the van.

So that leaves the 3 seater...only concerns now are the bed and the loss of (some) options for pods later - still have some though like the Slidepods and the compact Maxxcamp set ups.

OK so just the bed then...

Decided to try and hire one for a day or two, already sent an enquiry to Heritage in Bristol to go in and have a proper chat...of course they haven't replied yet, curse of the VW van centre service already?!???

Thanks again, will report back to let you know how I get on.


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[Bellesca]

Speak to John Lawry at Heritage. Very knowledgeable about the California compared to other salesmen

 

[rippers]

I've had a three seater Beach and now a SE.
If I where to buy a Beach again it would be a 2 seater, the storage box would be handy and also the bed is just as big as the three seater when laid out.
The problem we found with the 3 seater was the ergonomic shaping of the Caravelle seat (its deffo not a campervan seat) made it the most uncomfortable campervan bed I've ever slept on.. so we splashed out nearly £400 on the Brandrup topper and whilst slightly better it was still a horrible nights sleep, I like a firm bed but this was not only very firm but also very bumpy even with the topper.. after spending two weeks traveling to Spain and around France I came back hating it.. interestingly I suffered a prolapsed disc in my back the following week.. related? maybe? anyway we sold it on. We also found with the 3 seater the lack of storage is ridiculous we where basically swimming in our gear the whole time, I don't like living out of boxes.. everything has to has to have its space and easily accessible, not something I need to get out of the van open the tailgate and pull out every time I want a item of clothing.
Se we decided to order the SE as the Beach wasn't camper enough for our requirements but the Beach sounds to suit you perfectly.. I would go with the 2 seater (and maybe an extra seat) for storage box and flatter seat for bed.. the removable seats can travel rear facing if Granny wanted to??
Just my experience anyway. The three seater might be ok for a night possibly two but I unless I actually need the extra seating I wouldn't choose it.

 

[SlidePods]

I have to say it's all down to personal choice. We have triple seat with brandrup topper. I find it perfectly comfortable. In my humble opinion the 3 seater is the more versatile vehicle for an everyday drive and the 2 seat in the better campervan

 

[kave]

Great thread. I am also considering the three seater, but I am also the two extra seats so our sons friends can go along. Hard decision .

 

[Steve39]

Quick update. Been told demo T6 Beaches should be with dealers early Nov.

No T5s locally to try, and no way I'm ordering without a proper play and test drive, even of the outgoing model.

So looks like I'm going to wait until I can see a T6 in the metal. Used is out as I want a factory fitted parking heater which seem to be pretty rare in the wild.

Probably going to look at some normal car options in the meantime. Hope my head doesn't get turned...


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