How distant in time is an Electric California

[dartmoordingoe]

I tried to search the forums for current thoughts about how quickly VW California is will become electric.

Clearly the ID buzz is an exciting prospect so I was interested in what the converters at Jerbs would make of it. Clearly judging from this video there are a lot of issues and I suspect a electric vehicle either from VW or from other converters may be a long way in coming. An obvious problem is the ID buzz is lower and shorter than a T6 California. Also does the problem of heavy loads and how far a single charge will take you.

It’s obviously sad if it takes a long time but I have to say from a selfish point of view a bit of a relief as buying a new California coast was a big decision and I was worried that it may become much less valuable rapidly if electric cars were an option soon.

Here is the guy and his views on the new van. The buzz is clearly fabulous looking but how do people feel it will go?

 

[Sad]

I would expect PHEV campervans much before a viable fully electric vehicle.
But even still, diesel vans will be around and just as desirable for many years to come...

 

[GrannyJen]

Goodness, rumours are circulating, the earliest 2025, the latest not before the predictions in Revelations comes true.

Anyone who buys a new Cali now has three years of joy and happiness in front of them before even the nascent ripples of a changing future reach them, probably 13 years before the war on diesel has a major impact. If we look at what has happened to the world in just the last three years then who is going to predict anything beyond saying it's going to be rather warm on Tuesday

 

[soulstyledevon]

Buy a diesel Cali and don’t worry about the electric replacement. It’s 2025 minimum before Volkswagen releases it and even with the LWB chassis it’s being built on, I’m not convinced the range works for a touring vehicle.
Hopefully Volkswagen prove me wrong, for now I’m happy with the Cali in its current format.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Buy a diesel Cali and don’t worry about the electric replacement. It’s 2025 minimum before Volkswagen releases it and even with the LWB chassis it’s being built on, I’m not convinced the range works for a touring vehicle.
Hopefully Volkswagen prove me wrong, for now I’m happy with the Cali in its current format.

I would think it’s going to be many years before they get a usable distance from an EV VW camper van.
It’s not so bad in the UK when they get the infrastructure right but could you imagine touring in Spain when it’s hard enough to find a garage to fill up let alone an EV charging point.

 

[Calimili]

The California is a van. A 3t van.

There are very few electric vans in the market, with none having even half of a decent mileage on electric. There isn't a market, a demand and a technology yet for 3t more than 300mile range vans.
While you have half way decent mileage electric cars to buy, there aren't any vans.
So, an electric Cali is nowhere close to be built. Not every vehicle will be EV for a long time, especially commercial vehicles on which campervans/motorhomes are built on.
And before there is solid, real infrastructure in place to charge 40m vehicles, no company needing its fleet of commercial vehicles to do more than 200mile in a day each will buy an Electric commercial vehicles assuming they manage to build one which carry the same in volume and tonnage and be within 3,5t gross weight.

 

[RonB]

I tried to search the forums for current thoughts about how quickly VW California is will become electric.

Clearly the ID buzz is an exciting prospect so I was interested in what the converters at Jerbs would make of it. Clearly judging from this video there are a lot of issues and I suspect a electric vehicle either from VW or from other converters may be a long way in coming. An obvious problem is the ID buzz is lower and shorter than a T6 California. Also does the problem of heavy loads and how far a single charge will take you.

It’s obviously sad if it takes a long time but I have to say from a selfish point of view a bit of a relief as buying a new California coast was a big decision and I was worried that it may become much less valuable rapidly if electric cars were an option soon.

Here is the guy and his views on the new van. The buzz is clearly fabulous looking but how do people feel it will go?

Interestingly enough, I dropped into CampingCentrum in Netherlands to buy some brandrup stuff on a recent trip back from Italy and had a quick chat with their sales guy.
Having a T5.1, I asked what was the lead time for a new 6.1 in Netherlands - he said allow one year.
He also volunteered his advice that as the 5.1 was the most ‘mature’ and ‘developed’ version so far, why would I want to change it for a 6.1 which is still in developmental stages, with ongoing issues regarding touch screen electronics, etc?
He said the T7 hybrid Transporter would remain as such and that the EV California would arrive in 2025.
He was less than optimistic about the infrastructure to support it, citing Netherlands as having quite an advanced charging network but conversely that Germany does not, saying that it is such a huge landmass with large driving distances, it is a huge challenge to support EV’s.
An interesting take from a California salesperson.

 

[hirsty]

It will happen a lot more quickly than we all - and particularly this forum - expect it to, despite it being perhaps the toughest vehicle niche to crack.

We’ll know a lot more when the LWB Buzz with bigger battery pack arrives, then it’ll all be down to Moores Law.

 

[owen_h]

The vehicle I guess will give the best idea on the timescales for a fully electric California isn’t even a Volkswagen but the recently announced (maybe teased would be a better term) Fully elec Ford Transit Custom. To be built in the Ford Turkey factory on a VW based elec platform. VW have already said the next transporter will be built in the same factory. I could see the (electric)sequence being:
Ford Transit custom
VW transporter
VW California
All on the same platform so similar range and performance but the Ford and VW with different styling.

 

[Bobajob]

I was chatting to ‘California Chris’ on the VW Commercial stand at Camperjam about this. Told him we had almost decided to sell our Ocean and save up for when the Cali version of the ID Buzz came out (this is before we realised that the dimensions just wouldn’t work).
He looked horrified at the idea. He said that there would be an electric Cali eventually, but probably 5 years away.
For now, the big problems are dimensions and weight. Carrying all that gear the range is going to be terrible ( and I don’t imagine your average French campsite with 6A hookup would be either very welcoming or very useful). So we are stuck with the T6.1 for now (even though the T7 would be theoretically possible, the base vehicle cost would apparently make this a very expensive option).
So give it 5 years for technology to move on, infrastructure to catch up (if the Russians haven’t bombed us all by then!) and then maybe the ID California will be with us.

 

[Multi1100]

Some remarks to all reactions above; (based on direct VW info)
- VW stated their ID-Buzz Cali version is planned for 2025, personally I think it will be 2026 for the customer launch.
- As upto now, the VW/Ford cooperation will have no effect on the foreseen Cali successor
- About the distance; that version will have a bigger battery pack, so a longer range
- I am not to worried about the range, we travel in campervans! That means in my opinion that the journey is the destination...not the so called "planned" campsite
- Charging stations will be setup quit rapidly in. Europe now that EV's are already making up for 20-25% of the current cars sold! (aside from national gov's like Norway who already took the decision that as of 2025 no other cars than EV may be sold, other countries will follow)
- The current Russian invasion of Ukraine will even speedup developments (in EV and Hydrogen) in Europe to be less dependent on oil & gas deliveries
- Personally I am also curious in the Hydrogen development of for instance Hyundai. Reading Shell's latest announcement that they are speeding up the build of the largest EU Hydrogen factory in Rotterdam, it will be serious business.

Just my thoughts....based on different companies info so far

 

[Multi1100]

As an add-on;
- ID buzz height is 1.951 (for current T versions it's 1,990)
- Width is 1.985 ( about the same)
- Length (SWB version) is 4.712, current T versions are 4,990

 

[ardm17]

I believe that the latest engines are bio-diesel capable now, so maybe a reasonable bet will see bio/synthetic diesel fuel available before we get to a fully electric van/camper. As long as the emissions are further reduced, could extend the 'life' significantly.

Volkswagen four-cylinder TDIs approved for next-gen diesel

New TDI four-cylinders can swallow

www.whichcar.com.au

(Aware that it is an Aussie version of What Car).

Or could just be marketing hype, who knows ..

 

[The Tall Luthier]

I would think it’s going to be many years before they get a usable distance from an EV VW camper van.
It’s not so bad in the UK when they get the infrastructure right but could you imagine touring in Spain when it’s hard enough to find a garage to fill up let alone an EV charging point.

I like to think of a date in the future when the EHU recharges all of the batteries in a totally electric Cali. I like to think that that is years away and not decades. Fingers crossed.

 

[66tim99]

I believe that the latest engines are bio-diesel capable now, so maybe a reasonable bet will see bio/synthetic diesel fuel available before we get to a fully electric van/camper. As long as the emissions are further reduced, could extend the 'life' significantly.

Volkswagen four-cylinder TDIs approved for next-gen diesel

New TDI four-cylinders can swallow

www.whichcar.com.au

(Aware that it is an Aussie version of What Car).

Or could just be marketing hype, who knows ..

I’d heard that the RDE2 engines (July 21 onwards?) are capable of using bio fuel. This article suggests they can burn paraffinic diesel including HVO (hydrotreated vegetable oil). I hear it’s 10-15% more expensive than diesel though, if you can get it. I can’t find anywhere to buy it in London, and it doesn’t surprise me to hear that this government are dragging their heels on tax duty reform…
Be interested to hear from anyone that has tried biodiesel in their California

 

[jonr71]

EV development as others have said will accelerate as money and resources are transferred from ICE. The challenge will always be range and charging. History has shown us that developments in transport technology can go through several iterations before they get it right. (See the SS Great Britain, answering the 3 part challenge of weight, propulsion and fuel to get a ship big enough to carry enough passengers and crew to make large scale transport viable - it started as a paddle steamer and then migrated to screw propulsion) These inventions were relatively quickly replaced by other forms of fuel and propulsion, with Nuclear power now in regular use for huge military ships to be out at sea for months.) At the time no one could conceive of a technology like that. In time we will have that for the California. We will have the same 3 part problem. Weight, propulsion and fuel. The weight of the energy store (battery or something else?) the ability to fill that energy store and the type of motor used to propel a 3t vehicle. As we are at the beginning of that development curve you can expect several stages of technology improvement meaning that any system you buy into in 2025/6 will quickly be superseded by some other tech quite soon. So residual values will be poor unless they can be upgraded (replacement battery modules or charging interfaces and maybe more efficient motors). 3rd or 4th generation technology will likely be where you start to see a settled market with long range, lower weight systems with only incremental improvements. Cars are at about 2nd generation now and vans will benefit from that. My guess is that you might be able to order an EV Cali in 3 or 4 years. When they deliver it, the tech will already be out of date. I'd say wait to 2030+ before putting your own money into it.

 

[Greg&Mel Australian Cali]

I live in Western Australia. A short trip is 300 kms and a long trip, to Broome for example is 2,500 kms. On these trips there is a Roadhouse approximately 200 kms apart with nothing but emptiness between. If you want to take a minor road (through the outback) then you had better have a diesel as the only fuel at outback stations is diesel with no petrol available. If you want to drive across the Nullarbor Plain to the east coast then you need to be prepared to drive 4,000 kms across the desert. How do you think an electric campervan would handle this? If you are retired with plenty of time and a good planner then it can be done. Otherwise, go the diesel motor vvvv California!

 

[Peter84]

If you want to drive across the Nullarbor Plain to the east coast then you need to be prepared to drive 4,000 kms across the desert. How do you think an electric campervan would handle this?

Solar panels obviously!

 

[Calimili]

Solar panels obviously!

and a couple of wind propeller generators just in case..

 

[jonr71]

I live in Western Australia. A short trip is 300 kms and a long trip, to Broome for example is 2,500 kms. On these trips there is a Roadhouse approximately 200 kms apart with nothing but emptiness between. If you want to take a minor road (through the outback) then you had better have a diesel as the only fuel at outback stations is diesel with no petrol available. If you want to drive across the Nullarbor Plain to the east coast then you need to be prepared to drive 4,000 kms across the desert. How do you think an electric campervan would handle this? If you are retired with plenty of time and a good planner then it can be done. Otherwise, go the diesel motor vvvv California!

I drove a motorhome down the east coast (Palm Cove to Brisbane was the aim) many years ago just after a tropical cyclone hit northern Queensland. The Bruce Highway was flooded just south of Cairns so we were forced to head for the outback roads to get around (a nice 400km detour - great little sweet shop as I remember in Charters Towers). Diesel was our friend, until we hit Route 1 again. We were ~125km north of Rockhampton, pulled into a small town to get provisions and to fill up. We went to the supermarket and then left without filling up... about 40km later, we drifted to the side of the road. Rescued by a QRAC with the help of a couple of guys from Queensland Railway. Diesel meant we couldn't just fill back up again. User error.

 

[sidepod]

I wonder what VW’s EV equivalent of the CFCA biTurbo fiasco will be? Obvs it will need to involve fire in some way. Probably won’t incinerate the whole van, maybe just the entire charging system requiring substantial investment from the customer after VW deny responsibility.

 

[soulstyledevon]

@sidepod Dodgy wiring looms…

 

[westfalia]

An Electric Cali

No thanks, I'll keep my diesel, Forever.
Although leasing a Taycan isn't out of the question, but a camper...no way.

 

[soulstyledevon]

@westfalia the Cross Turismo what a machine…
Would love one

 

[westfalia]

@westfalia the Cross Turismo what a machine…
Would love one

I haven't looked too much at those, my mate has a Taycan turbo ( )
but also has a Macan diesel as back up.

I dont like the leasing idea, of course you can buy one, but what is it worth in 10yrs, or even 5.

I ordered a 4.0. flat 6 last year, it might come this year, I don't care when because this
baby might be one of the last. How crazy is that.